View Full Version : New guy questions
I have reloaded for 25 years but never with surplus powder. At the prices canister powder is I am looking at surplus powder. If I could trouble you with a few questions I would be a happy man.
1) I am looking to load 303, 7.62X54R, and 30/06 with the Jword bullet. Is 7383 a good choice using 4350 or 4064 data?
2) I am looking to shoot cast in 303 and 7.62X54R. Is WC820 using 2400 data the best choice?
3) Is there any reason to use virgin stock over pulldown?
Thanks in advance.
02-09-2007, 03:11 PM
6901, I use the powders you mention, but not always as you wish to. First, yes, you can use IMR 7383 in the .303, 7.62 x 54R & '06 with jacketed bullets using IMR 4064 -> IMR 4350 data. However, do not compress it or overload it, as pressure rises very quickly, and use a chronograph if you own or can borrow one. Second, you can indeed use WC 820 with CB's in the aforementioned cartridges, but use AA #9 rather than #2400 data. In fact, 18 - 18.5gr. will work quite well, but make 21.5gr. your maximum. Lastly, I haven't knowingly purchased virgin milsurp powder (usually significantly more expensive) and I've been using it since 1993. Welcome to the asylum!
02-09-2007, 03:21 PM
1] 7383 was developed for the 50 BMG as a mid speed tracer powder. There are at least 3 different lots of it out there. There is some data for 223 and 308 with 55 gr and 150 gr j*****ed out there. It works as a usuable substite in my experience for the 308 and it's wildcats with j-word bullets and is also useable in 30-06 and it's cousins. I have shot it with good results in the 30-30. I believe it is a good powder if you are willing to give up 250-300 fps over and above what you are now getting with canister powders. I think it will make almost any bottleneck rifle cartridge fire. I don't think it is the best choice for any. It's price is it's main value and you must decide if it will meet your needs.
2] If you shoot cast now with pistol powders and are wanting a replacement for 2400 I would advise you to stick with 2400 and pay the price. 820 works great in some applications but doesn't have the proven versitility 2400 does. I use it with AA#9 data for a closer match. Again, it will work in some but I doen't know how far along the curve you are with surplus powders nor how far you want to go. I would suggest red dot or something else if you are starting to shoot cast in a rifle.
3] Pulldown sometimes has minute brass flakes and other crud that virgin stock does not. Price or availabilty are the only reasons to use it. Gianni.
02-10-2007, 12:18 PM
1] 7383 was developed for the 50 BMG as a mid speed tracer powder.
No, it was never used in .50 BMG. It was only used in the second version of the ".50 spotter" cartridge, replacing IMR 4831 that was used in a somewhat larger charge for the same ballistics. The data's all in the back of later editions of Barnes' Cartridges of the World. The .50 caliber cartridge used in the spotter rifle atop the 106mm recoilless rifle was a much shorter bodied derivative of the .50 BMG. Looks about like a 7.62x39 compared to a .30-06.
If someone did want to use 7383 in .50 BMG, they'd have to use very light loads. It's faster burning than the normal .50 powders, and the maximum working pressure of the .50 spotter was 38,000 PSI. I believe this powder's designed to burn more efficiently at this midrange pressure than the other IMR powders. (The grains are blackened through and through with carbon black, rather than translucent as most IMR powders are inside. Absorbs radiant heat on the surface of the grains, enhancing burning.)
Thanks MT , Maven and Ricochet for the information.
I guess this bring about my next question. For my 303, 7.62X54r and 30/06 id there a better surplus powder choice than 7383?
Is there something better then 820 for cast?
Sorry for being pesty.
02-10-2007, 01:46 PM
Well, I use 7383 as my main powder in 8x57, 7.5x55 Swiss, 7.62x54R, .30-06 and .22-250. And I'd use it in any cartridges of similar capacity. Heck, I even use it for light cast bullet loads in .300 Weatherby. (200 grain boolit at circa 2000 FPS.) May not be the "best" powder for any, but it works quite well for my purposes.
02-10-2007, 08:03 PM
Don't want to hijack the thread, but what cannister powder do you
think that 7383 is closest to? Also, I see the 820 listed as "13%
faster" [than what?], and it seems like I heard that H110 was originally
made for .30 carbine. If so, is this surplus carbine powder 820,
13% different than AA9 or same as H110 or 13% faster than H110???
i get great use out of H110 so if 820 is similar, it may be a great deal.
I, too, had misunderstood that 7383 was a .50 BMG powder and stayed
away from it. Sounds like you are getting a lot of good out of it.
Thanks for the info, love this site.
02-10-2007, 08:31 PM
WC820 is between AA9 and H110, and very well could equal either one as determined by your personal trials with known loads you have experienced. So, if AA9 is not too fast for what you want, then go for it. 7383 is likewise between 4064 and 4350, depending on which lot you receive. It's advantage is its large granules which take up lots of extra room in a case. It's disadvantage is that it provides a quick pressure excursion at its "top" end. On the otherhand, it takes low pressure quite well, even though it does not burn throughly. ... felix
02-11-2007, 01:59 PM
My lot of WC820 was compared to AAC#9 across a chronograph in .454 Casull and .44 magnum loads. The resulting velocities were so close that I consider them the same burn rate for my uses.
02-11-2007, 02:45 PM
WRT what 7383's equivalent to, it appears to me that in many cases it's closely equivalent in velocity for charge weight to IMR 4350, but that's down at the starting charge weights for 4350 where that's all the 7383 that will fit in the case. (7383 is a good bit bulkier.) What Maven's previously warned, and I've since discovered, is that as you get to maximum pressure levels using heavier bullets, compressed charges and/or larger case volumes, pressures rise very rapidly. I don't think it stays on a parallel curve with 4350, but follows an upward curving track with a burning rate more like one of the powders Dan at Hi-Tech compared it to, like 4064 or 4320. That's why I mention that it seems to be optimized to burn at the pressure level of the cartridge it was made for, the ONLY application it was ever factory loaded into, at 38,000 PSI. In typical military size cases with light to medium weight bullets it's hard to get enough in to even give "full power" loads, let alone an overload, but push up the bullet weights to the heavy range, pack in a tightly compressed load and/or go to a case with more capacity for the bore and you'd best be cautious as it takes off fast.
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