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gofastman
10-19-2011, 09:05 PM
I would like to get my .44 mag 240gr Tumble Lubed LSWC's moving around 1200fps.
They are WW alloy, dropped from the mould into cold water.

I have Longshot, 2400, and Unique.

Is it a better idea to download Longshot or 2400, or run a fairly large charge of Unique?

williamwaco
10-19-2011, 09:17 PM
I am not familiar with Longshot but I have loaded many pounds of Unique and 2400 in the .44 Mag.

My first choice would be the 2400, That is a hefty load.

I do no think your can safely get 1200 fps with Unique.

GP100man
10-19-2011, 09:41 PM
I`d use the slowest , 2400 maybe a tad slower than Longshot .

gofastman
10-19-2011, 09:46 PM
I`d use the slowest
But why? (not a challenge, just curiosity)


I was really hoping to use up some of this Unique, not a big fan.

anybody care to share some 2400 recipes? maybe 16-17ish grains with a fairly short OAL?

parrott1969
10-19-2011, 09:49 PM
according to Load data you can use 20.6 grains ( max charge, proceed with caution) of 2400. should be good for 1258 fps or use 11.7 grains of unique for 1133 fps ( max charge proceed with caution)

Hope it helps.

parrott1969
10-19-2011, 09:53 PM
forgot, they show the OAL to be long at 1.645 if you go shorter be sure to adjust the powder charge. Both loads are show 37000 cup in presure.

gofastman
10-19-2011, 10:28 PM
according to Load data you can use 20.6 grains ( max charge, proceed with caution) of 2400. should be good for 1258 fps or use 11.7 grains of unique for 1133 fps ( max charge proceed with caution)
Any idea which of these would give less of a chance of leading?

MtGun44
10-20-2011, 12:22 AM
Good luck with the TL design at that speed. I think you may not make it without
leading and likely loss of accuracy. Use 2400.

Bill

Bret4207
10-20-2011, 07:16 AM
Any idea which of these would give less of a chance of leading?

Both stand a good chance of leading if your fit isn't right to start with and if the design of the boolit isn't up to it. I strongly suggest yous tart low and work up. The TL designs aren't at their best in higher end loadings.

ku4hx
10-20-2011, 08:42 AM
I would like to get my .44 mag 240gr Tumble Lubed LSWC's moving around 1200fps.
They are WW alloy, dropped from the mould into cold water.

I have Longshot, 2400, and Unique.

Is it a better idea to download Longshot or 2400, or run a fairly large charge of Unique?

What's your barrel length? If it's a 10" you might hit 1200 fps with Unique, but Alliant shows a max charge of Unique at 899 fps for a 240 Cast SWC. Take that for what it's worth.

If you have a 4"-5" barrel I'd suggest Blue Dot. If your barrel is 6" or longer I'd go with 2400. But then I've used 2400 is short barrels too. Lots of unburned powder but still worked ok.

You're best bet is to get a copy of Lyman's cast boolit manual and use it as a guide. It's a pretty good source of cast boolit load data of all sorts.

No idea what you mean by "fairly large charge" but that to me seems a lot like "Kentucky Windage" applied to a powder charge. Whatever you do, follow published load recommendations and work up to your preferred charge for your chosen powder and boolit combination

429421Cowboy
10-21-2011, 12:25 PM
I think the usefulness of a boolit is reached when you can drive it no faster to avoid leading, after that the percentage goes downhill fast. I would think that maximum clean velocity would be the more reasonable goal at whatever powder charge that may be, rather than picking an arbitrairy number using a less then ideal boolit+powder+velocity combo. I like Unique for my mid range .44 and .45 loads and use 2400 for hotter loads.

runfiverun
10-21-2011, 02:11 PM
seat the boolit out of the case to fit your revolver, there is plenty of neck tension with this boolit.
i'd go with 8 grs unique to start with see how you like it and bump it up a tad if you think you can.
if i were to try going faster then the 2400 would come into play.
17 grs is a good start.
getting 950-1k velocity from a revolver is a very usefull everyday load.
seating out the boolit to fit your revolver could gain you some case capacity.

fecmech
10-21-2011, 02:20 PM
I think you would have a way better chance with 2400 than Unique. That said your best chance IMO for accuracy without leading would be H110/296 to get 1200 fps with that bullet. If the 2400 did not pan out that is what I would try.

zxcvbob
10-21-2011, 02:27 PM
Unique will work just fine. Alliant's 2004 load book shows a max charge of 11.8 grains with a 240 SWC for 1255 fps from a 5.7" barrel. (their new load data is all with with soft squishy Speer swaged bullets)

Herco is a great powder with heavy cast bullets and will get you north of 1300 fps.

429421Cowboy
10-22-2011, 12:28 AM
Unique will work just fine. Alliant's 2004 load book shows a max charge of 11.8 grains with a 240 SWC for 1255 fps from a 5.7" barrel. (their new load data is all with with soft squishy Speer swaged bullets)

Herco is a great powder with heavy cast bullets and will get you north of 1300 fps.

Wouldn't there be a huge pressure difference between a full wadcutter versus a semi with most of the boolit sticking out of the case rather than intruding into powder space?

zxcvbob
10-22-2011, 01:01 AM
Wouldn't there be a huge pressure difference between a full wadcutter versus a semi with most of the boolit sticking out of the case rather than intruding into powder space?

Yes. I haven't seen anybody mention full wadcutters in this thread. (I don't think I've ever seen .44 or .45 wadcutters, although they probably exist)

44man
10-22-2011, 09:35 AM
But why? (not a challenge, just curiosity)


I was really hoping to use up some of this Unique, not a big fan.

anybody care to share some 2400 recipes? maybe 16-17ish grains with a fairly short OAL?
Your boolit should be hard enough to withstand Unique. Yet, I would not use max charges, work to find accuracy first. The reason for a slower powder is to move the max pressure point farther away and down the bore some. Fast powders can peak too fast and ruin boolits.
I have no problems driving TL boolits to near max in the .44 with no leading. I shoot the 265 gr RD with 22 gr of 296 and 240 gr boolits with 24 gr of 296. I use REAL boolit lube like Felix or CR, never LLA, that stuff leads my bore.
2400 is good powder. With Unique and a 240 gr boolit I use 7 gr for fun but you can work to 10 gr to see if it shoots better as you go up. I see no need to load max with the powder.
There are many other powders like Blue Dot, Herco, HS-6, etc that will work. Just never down load a ball powder below listed starting loads.

rintinglen
10-22-2011, 09:45 AM
18.5 grains of 2400 is a favorite of mine with 250 grain boolits. I have not had good results with TL boolits at speed, but you may be ok with this load.

Three44s
10-22-2011, 09:48 AM
Lee LLA works great for me ......... but only at reduced velocity.

If you are in earnest about getting high speed out of the TL boolit ............. the only way I think you have a chance is to closely follow 44man's suggestions.

Furthermore, you'll need to do that with a bore that's well broken in with good dimensions.


Three 44s

429421Cowboy
10-22-2011, 10:11 AM
Yes. I haven't seen anybody mention full wadcutters in this thread. (I don't think I've ever seen .44 or .45 wadcutters, although they probably exist)

Sorry my bad, i saw tumble lubed and assumed we were talking WC till i went back and re-read the OP. There are several people i know that cast 240 WC's for .44's but i'm fairly certain you'd be hard pressed to find a commercial supply of them, i haven't been able to find one yet.

gofastman
10-24-2011, 06:07 PM
Well a co-worker gave me 150 pieces of .44 brass!

Here is my plan, 50 of each:

11.1grs of Longshot

18grs of 2400

10grs of Unique

I'll report back with my findings!

MtGun44
10-24-2011, 08:04 PM
10 Gr of Unique will be quite pleasant and accurate if the boolit fits the barrel well.
I am still concerned about the very low lube quantity of the TL design.

Best of luck.

Bill

gofastman
10-25-2011, 06:50 PM
10 Gr of Unique will be quite pleasant and accurate if the boolit fits the barrel well.
I am still concerned about the very low lube quantity of the TL design.

Best of luck.

Bill

I put on about 4 coats :D

I assume you talking about the fundamental design of the lube grooves though.
What velocity do you think these bullets should be driven at?
Perhaps you are not a fan of the design at all :?:

Going back a few posts, the gun has a 6.5" barrel.

zxcvbob
10-25-2011, 11:08 PM
The thing I don't like about TL bullets is the narrowness of the driving bands -- even though there's a lot of them.

I have a TL bullet that I use in .45 Colt loaded to just under 1100 fps lubed with straight Alox and I don't get any leading. I have a TL bullet in .41 Magnum and I do get some leading with that one at about 1200 fps using paste wax and Alox, but I haven't really tried to work up a good load with it yet.

I also need to try that .45 Colt load using wax/Alox lube to see if it still performs. (the wax makes it a lot less messy and they look better. The lube works really good in .38 Specials)

luvtn
10-25-2011, 11:25 PM
I think lube is highly over rated. I have found bullets at the range(by the targets) that still have all the lube left in the bands, and could be reloaded as is. How much lube is necessary?
lt