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View Full Version : who uses patched rb for deer hunting?



thunderthud
10-16-2011, 12:53 PM
hello everybody,
how many of you regularly use perc/ flint sidehammer guns with patched rb for whitetail hunting? Long time ago I got tired of hearing slug gun (shotguns) hunters blazing away with 5-6 rounds so I decided for myself I would use one well placed shot and limit distance. I hunt in Ohio and now the slug guns are limited to 3 rds. (Whew) Just curious.:cbpour:

idahoron
10-16-2011, 01:18 PM
I only use heavy cast conicals for everything now. Ron

RU shooter
10-16-2011, 01:33 PM
My dad used to use a 45 cal ball for deer here in Pa as thats all that was legal for the primitive MZ season at one time. Now conicals are again legal and I have to say they work much better in that small 45 cal hawken he uses. That RB just didnt have enough weight even at close range(50 yds) for a quick kill and a tracking job was always required.

waksupi
10-16-2011, 02:51 PM
I've never used anything but a patched round ball. Don't need anything else.

gnoahhh
10-16-2011, 03:02 PM
Ditto. Even with my current favorite, a .45 Vincent rifle, the PRBs are efficient killers. I can state unequivocally that the .45 round ball is plenty for deer and can't tell a difference from the .50s. But that's my experience, YMMV.

tomindy
10-16-2011, 03:11 PM
The patched round ball is all I have ever used in my .58 CVA Big Bore for deer. It worked fine here in Indiana. Tom

bart55
10-16-2011, 03:48 PM
Have taken deer with both patched rb and home cast maxi ball ,both seem to work equally well on pennsylvania deer.Actaully shot my largest buck and heaviest with that 50 cal flintlock .One shot at 68 paces and he just went down and started kicking ,never moved ! I seldom get direct kills from my cast bullets in anything under 45 cal ,not like that anyway .I presently use a 50 70 rolling block with holy black for the rifle season .I would just carryu the flintlock but I love to hunt with all my old bp rifles .

Hanshi
10-16-2011, 05:05 PM
I've never used anything but prb and always have one shot kills. My rifle of choice is a .45 and has given me DRT results. The ones that did trot off barely got out of sight before they dropped; in fact I usually heard them when they crashed. There are no degrees of dead!

roverboy
10-16-2011, 07:50 PM
I'm happy that the hunters that use prb have had good luck but, in my experience with them its been not so good. Maxi-Hunter and other conicals have worked much better. A .54 or larger is good with a round ball though. If and when I get my .58 H&R fixed it will be used with prb.

Baron von Trollwhack
10-16-2011, 08:33 PM
GOEX, PRB, Flint/cap.

BvT

GabbyM
10-16-2011, 08:40 PM
I tried PRB with a 45 Hawkins. Over 110 grains fffg it develops over 2,000 fps. Well dugh. I was about 15 years old a the time. Balls must have been blowing up on contact. Shot three deer in one day. Never saw a drop of blood and never recovered a deer. That little .440" ball may have done better over about half that much powder. Next year in about 1971 I discovered the existence of the TC Maxi Ball 220gr bullet. Lost that one but now have a 240 Lyman Maxi a Lee 200gr REAL and an RCBS hollow based Minie.

I’d use round ball on deer if I had a 54 caliber or larger. Have heard of many having good luck with 50 caliber RB but the 50 cal conical aren’t all that heavy so why use a round ball? Suppose If I owned a 1-60 twist fifty I’d use the round ball. I’d never take a .440” round ball deer hunting again. Not saying you can’t make them work. Just that I had enough of that already.

That said I’ve been dreaming of a 54 caliber rock lock round ball gun.

tacklebury
10-16-2011, 11:30 PM
I used patched RB when I take out the Hawken. With my modern inline 385 Great Plains Bullets or 180gr. Plinkers w/ Sabots.

quilbilly
10-16-2011, 11:37 PM
I quit using conicals for almost all deer hunting years ago and switched to patched round ball in either 45 or 50. The only time I still load a conical for deer is out in the desert for mulies where anything closer than 100 yards is a rarity. My experience over the last 25 years of ML hunting has been that the blacktails and mulies I hunt simply go down faster when hit with roundball. On the other hand, I use conicals exclusively for elk. The conicals have the same effect on elk as round balls have on deer, pick-em-up-and-lay-em-down. I occasionally require a finishing shot but the animals haven't gone far. I hate chasing.
One side benefit of PRB is that the greased patch forms a good seal keeping moisture from the charge so all I have to worry about is sealing around the nipple. This is important during the December monsoons in Western Washington or W. Oregon

waksupi
10-16-2011, 11:43 PM
If you are shooting deer with a .440 RB and they aren't going down, you missed.

NickSS
10-17-2011, 05:20 AM
I am not a big ML hunter of big game but I have killed three deer with ML rifles. The first was a 58 cal Zouave rifle with a PRB and 80 gr FFG. The second was a nice buck whitetail taken with one of the first TC hawkens out of the factory (ser 99) in 45 cal with a PRB and 80 gr of FFG, The last was a Black tail shot with a 50 cal TC New Englander with a PRB and 80 gr of FFG. I never much worried about max velocity but found a load that shot good and used it. The deer shot with the 58 went furthest after being hit but it only went about 30 yards. The one shot with the 45 was running right at me after being spooked by another hunter. It fell at the shot and skidded a couple feet.

Ajax
10-17-2011, 06:49 AM
Wow, how did our forefathers ever survive with the roundball being such a inefficient killer?
Seriously though, the roundball has taken more deer than anyother projectile to date. It is what sustained this country in the early days. I don't think our forefathers would have contimued to use them if they were inefficient. I think th eproblem is we have went from a country of riflemen to a country of fair weather shooters. I didnt say hunter cause it seems to me most people nowadays would just as soon walk out shoot a deer take it to the processor and go pick up their packaged meat. alright i am off my soap box sorry.


Andy

thunderthud
10-17-2011, 08:19 AM
Waksupi, amen brother on the .440 rb. All my prb kills have been one shot. One ball i recovered from a buck shot w/90gr 2f goex expanded to .880! I still have the ball. that pure lead ball makes a mess of the "boiler room".

gnoahhh
10-17-2011, 10:22 AM
The powder charge I use in my .45 PRB is 60 gr. FFFg. 12 deer, 12 one shot kills over the last 15 years. Before that I killed a pile of deer with several .50s, using 50-60 gr. FFFg. You don't need to "magnumize" a ML, just shoot straight. I can't imagine anybody being so ill-informed as to use way over 100 gr. of black powder behind a PRB to whack a deer or punch holes in paper.

KCSO
10-17-2011, 10:33 AM
30 years and NOTHING but round balls, why use anything else? A 50 cal rb and 75 grains of powder will lay a buffalo out with one shot and does the same for deer.

Bardo
10-17-2011, 10:33 AM
All I use to hunt Mule deer is a patched round ball in 54 cal. The ball never exits- When I skin it I usually find it on the other side and its usually mushroomed. I usually shoot it with 70gr- 90gr.

45-70 Ranger
10-17-2011, 10:40 AM
Dozens fo Whitetails, hogs, three Elk, and unknown number of other assorted varmits and such. Weapon: Kit built T/C .50 Hawken. Round: Patched .490" round ball with loads chosen for the game intended. Never failed me in over 40 years....Inline? Got no use for one. Sabot or conicals? Naw.....Round ball at the PROPER range and careful shot placement has been the order of the day for me.

The thoughts of an oldman and his old gun...we're happy.

Wade

Shooter
10-17-2011, 11:39 AM
I used the PRB for years in all calibers.
I do use Minies in my musketoon.
a few years ago, I got a Encore in trade. I have been drawn to the dark side, but still prefer my .54 Lyman GPR with ball and patch.

Alan
10-17-2011, 11:44 AM
I've shot a lot of in-animate objects, but no deer, so take this with a grain of salt. If you are worried about penetration, just don't use pure lead except maybe for target shooting. For .45 and up, anything from 50% WW up to pure WW should give PLENTY of penetration. And it casts easier/cooler to boot.

Alan

405
10-17-2011, 12:35 PM
This coffee shop, campfire discussion has been cycled a few times :)

IMO, all other things being more or less equal, a conical is a better game killer than a roundball- if for no other reason than it tends to penetrate deeper.

I've heard all the stories, including, "must of missed, clean miss, or just a flesh wound- no worries" (also really common themes amongst the sharp stick flingers). I've seen and recovered roundballs from deer that were not cleanly killed or were lost and found later. Soft lead roundballs, shot at high velocities where impacts are at close range can literally pancake and not penetrate at all on even thin bones like the flat bone of a deer's shoulder. The smaller the roundball- the less propensity to penetrate. The mass to surface area of different diameter roundballs is not a linear relationship. The bigger the roundball- the better.

I've killed lots of big game with a roundball BUT I've learned to be very careful. Shot placement is critical as is not shooting too far because of the critical shot placement/accuracy issue. Also, not using the greatest powder charge or seeking the highest muzzle velocity is important- sometimes the higher the velocity of impact the less the penetration. IMO for example, other things being more or less equal, a soft lead 54 cal roundball is far superior to a soft lead 45 cal roundball for hunting big game.

Charley
10-17-2011, 03:53 PM
Taken 5 of our small Texas whitetals with PRBs....440, .490, and .530. All taken at 25 to 75 yards, all lungshots, all went down within 5 yards of being hit.
What's an inline?*



* for the literal minded, that's a joke.

thunderthud
10-17-2011, 04:10 PM
hey 405, that deer must have been ole Ironsides! I've shot some pretty good sized Ohio deer and broke bones & had the ball go through just about lengthwise on quartering shots. All my prb's are pure lead but I'll admit up here in NW Ohio I've never got a shot over 40 yds. Most of the woods are too thick for a clear shot. And...............you are correct shot placement is critical with any boolit prb or conical/ picket ball.

tuckerdog
10-17-2011, 04:39 PM
45 cal prb 85grn ff 75% pure lead 25% ww proper shot placement = venison steaks every time. Although I've never in 30 years of deer hunting in central Ohio shot a deer over 50 yards

mazo kid
10-17-2011, 05:58 PM
All I've hunted with for the past 20 years is a PRB and flintlock, even in the regular rifle season. A heart/lung shot means a deer; and lots of times the ball WILL exit the opposite side. I don't have an in-line and never will. Nuff said!

tacklebury
10-17-2011, 06:09 PM
Don't need anything more than a PRB if you are limiting shot ranges. If you want to have enough impact at longer 100+ yard ranges it is better to use conicals with their greater BC and mass. There is a reason the US Army went to Minie Balls prior to switching to cartridges. It's not a thing for better it's matching the intended projectile to it's intend use and long range, it's gotta be conicals. ;)

Fly
10-17-2011, 06:34 PM
My, My I love this thread.It's not what you shoot, it's placement.A PRB will kill any
deer at 100 yards if you place your shot.It make no differance PRB or MAXIE if you
hit him the tail or foot.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Fly

Flinchrock
10-17-2011, 08:06 PM
My, My I love this thread.It's not what you shoot, it's placement.A PRB will kill any
deer at 100 yards if you place your shot.It make no differance PRB or MAXIE if you
hit him the tail or foot.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Fly

I am a round ball guy and agree completely.

Idaho Ron hunts some pretty open country and needs the longer range capability
of his slug rifles. And he seems to have his paper patching down to a science.

I have put together a dedicated slug gun and a dedicated RB gun.
The slugger is a 1/28 stainless Green mountain IBS bbl on a cabellas "Hawken" stock, glass bedded and tweaked as mich as possible, shoots like a house afire with 90 gr 1.5 swiss and a 460gr No Excuses bullet. I haven't been paper patching yet,,future experiment maybe. It also kicks like an Alabama mule.

The RB rifle is a GPR stock with a G.M. bbl that I set up from a blank, in .54,
shot right through a nice buck and cut down a 2" pine sapling. 85gr 2f swiss, 70 paces.

I haven't taken any game with the slugger yet,,,seems like the GPR always says "Take ME for a walk in the woods", so I say "good idea"...

quilbilly
10-18-2011, 12:55 AM
The problem I always had with conicals and deer was too much penetration. Unless I hit a large bone or did a "Texas heart shot" (no offense to Texans), the deer would wander off and I would have to guess if I hit it or not. My only conclusion was that the round ball deposited all its energy into the target every time. This is always a fun campfire debate but the bottom line is, there are no degrees of dead. Whatever works for you is fine by me whether it is an original flinter with a PRB or the most modern inline with a 500 gr conical.

ReloaderEd
10-18-2011, 01:32 AM
I researched this quistion today and I concluded that patched round balls do very good on deer and including Elk. Most of the stories I read had the deer and elk within a 100 yds and usually half that. Most shots were broad side shots. One outfitter stated that most muzzleloader hunters with conicals would take shots well over 100 yds and deer did not die quickly in most cases. He attributed that to distance and that a lot of his clients were not that good of shots. Personally I have used 54 caliber RB's on deer with no problem but would use a minnie hollow base bullet for Elk if I were close enough to hit my mark. Also according to the experts, round balls generally do not go all the way through an animal and do considerable damage to the vitals. One guy was comparing a muzzleloader to a 30/30 however, they will shot as well as a 45/70 which I believe to be superior. Be Safe

thunderthud
10-18-2011, 09:12 AM
whatever you shoot good luck this year and stay safe.
whatch yer' back trail.

Hanshi
10-18-2011, 03:17 PM
What's an inline?*

* for the literal minded, that's a joke.[/QUOTE]


:coffee: "Inline"? Something to do with computers, I think.

Hang Fire
10-19-2011, 01:22 AM
I shoot tradional muzzleloaders and round balls are all I have ever used.

In pic, both of our daughters took their deer with RB that day in Wyoming. But the youngest at 14 years old got the largest one out of four at a paced 100 yards with her little short .54 percussion ML.

http://hstrial-rchambers.homestead.com/img451.jpg

Fly
10-19-2011, 05:09 AM
Flinchrock why did you change barrels on the GPR?Is the G.M. bbl really better?Mine
shoots much better than I can.
Fly

nicholst55
10-19-2011, 06:33 AM
I normally hunt deer with a flintlock now, because anything else is just deer shooting, IMHO. A .54 patched round ball will kill them DRT, with proper bullet placement.

thunderthud
10-19-2011, 01:08 PM
I shoot tradional muzzleloaders and round balls are all I have ever used.

In pic, both of our daughters took their deer with RB that day in Wyoming. But the youngest at 14 years old got the largest one out of four at a paced 100 yards with her little short .54 percussion ML.

http://hstrial-rchambers.homestead.com/img451.jpg

can't argue with that!

Pertsev
10-19-2011, 01:49 PM
Shot at a nice fat Maryland Eastern Shore doe a few years back. Used 90gr FFg and a patched 50cal RB.Basic CVA caplock rifle.
She was 60 paces away. After the smoke cleared,she was gone. Thought I'd missed.
She had fallen down a slight incline.The ball hit her in the neck,broke the spine. Recoved ball,it had flattened out to about size of a quarter.

If you are 80 yards or less and a good shot with an accurate rifle,the round ball seems to kill out of proportion to it's size and weight.

Swede44mag
10-19-2011, 02:22 PM
I have dropped deer with a patch round ball, a swaged 44 SWC, Jacketed Nosler 44HP, Hornady XTP all deer were shot within 100 yards all were either DRT or didnt travel over 75 yrds.
It all depends on where they were hit and what phase the Moon was in.

I have been hunting with my Flint Lock using 100grs GOEX FFF and GOEX FFFF to prime
nothing but PRB in the Rock Lock. No luck this year yet but am going to keep trying
this regular firearm season.

Flinchrock
10-19-2011, 06:29 PM
Flinchrock why did you change barrels on the GPR?Is the G.M. bbl really better?Mine
shoots much better than I can.
Fly

It came to me as a .50,,and I wanted a .54.
I did it from a blank, breeched it and all the rest, because I didn't want writing all over the bbl, and wanted to locate the sights (primitive) exactly where I wanted them, lotta work, but satisfying.

tacklebury
10-19-2011, 06:35 PM
My, My I love this thread.It's not what you shoot, it's placement.A PRB will kill any
deer at 100 yards if you place your shot.It make no differance PRB or MAXIE if you
hit him the tail or foot.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Fly

Take that shot at 150? 200? My point was that OVER 100 yards you are better served with a conical in modern twist muzzle loaders. The ONLY exception is very slow twist like Forsythe Rifling, which allows large Round balls over 58 cal to stabilize further. If you would like a copy of "The Sporting Rifle and it's Projectiles" by Forsythe, PM me. He details the limitations of the PRB quite nicely. ;)

Ronbo256
10-19-2011, 06:50 PM
I've had .44 hornady xtp with sabots fail me in my old traditions fast twist (1:20) carbine, didn't find that deer for 2 weeks. Dad used to use a .50 cal CVA Bobcat with patched roundballs, every deer he hit fell like it was poleaxed. I've got his old Remington bolt/inline muzzleloader now, I'm shooting ballettes in it, but I'm going to load up some Lee REAL bullets this year.

izzyjoe
10-19-2011, 09:31 PM
90grs of ff, and a PRB at short range is hard to beat!

Alan
10-19-2011, 09:48 PM
Assuming you can judge distance, with the right sights, 150-175 yards is perfectly doable with a PRB of ~.58 and up. You need to get it as close to 2000 FPS as possible. Past 14 bore you will have to settle for 1500-1600 due to recoil, but they shoot flatter than the smaller ball simply due to weight.

Now, a very fast twist ( modern ) gun can indeed shoot a saboted/high-tech projectile flatter. All the way up to the Savage using smokeless powder. They have their own problems regarding loading, unless you are using smokeless powder. Simply going to the range and shooting them is NOT fun. You spend a lot more time swabbing and fiddling than you do shooting. But as a general rule, I didn't think those were the guns under discussion.

But if we are talking about the typical TC/CVA/GPR "compromise twist", the minie/maxi/whatever will have a much more arched trajectory out to the point where you shouldn't be shooting at game animals anyway. If you want to shoot at targets at 200+, the conicals will begin to come into their own.

StrawHat
10-20-2011, 05:58 AM
I use PRB in a 58 and am very happy with the results. Anytime I have tried conicals in a muzzleloader, I have always come back to the PRB.

357maximum
10-20-2011, 07:33 AM
The last doe I shot with a .490 PRB in my caplock underhammer was standing on the edge of a cornfield. She went about 25 Yards into that cornfield after the shot. My clothes soaked up alot of her blood and I was literally blood soaked to the skin from the chest down while tracking her. PRB will GitRDone if you do your part and put it where it needs to go.

bart55
10-20-2011, 10:19 AM
Have to add this to my last post , My brother shoots a prb in a homemade 45 cal caplock and has never had a deer go more than 40 yards. I really believe its all in the shot placement .I primarily hunt with cast boolits either flintlock or cartridge and have killed deer with cast in 30 cal 32 cal 35 cal 44 cal 45 cal 50 cal 58 cal and 12 ga or 69 cal (ball) it did seem that the bigger cast did put them down a little faster ,but I had a one shot drop on a small buck with a 32 win sp cast and had a large 8 pointer go about 70 yrds after hit with a 45 70 (heart shot) my 50 cal hawlken has produced one shot kills with rb and conicals on all five deer I have harvested with that rifle . Thats my story and I m stickin to it

OnHoPr
10-20-2011, 11:00 AM
Of the last nine deer I shot, three with 240gr sabot GD, two with 180gr CB 30-30, two with .300 win mag and J's, one with 200gr sabot shock wave, and one with a .490 RB. The one with the RB is the only one that DRT, except a spine shot with the 300 win mag and had to shoot her again. IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE, with all that speed and technology against one of the the oldest projectiles.:roll: I have shot deer before with the RB and they are very well, do you know what deadly means. With a double lung shot they are capable of spectacular kills. The only restrictions are range, brush, and old eyes.:)

Hanshi
10-20-2011, 12:49 PM
Never feel you're undergunned when loaded with a prb. Two of my one-shot kills with a .50 were 95yds and the second well over 100yds, 125 steps if IRC.

MT Gianni
10-29-2011, 12:20 AM
I started with conicals and they do penetrate well. I have moved to RB and even killed the last one with a rb out of ww.

white eagle
10-29-2011, 10:56 PM
that is all I ever used to use in my 54 cal Hawken
but I found a real boolit was way more accurate so that is what I use now

missionary5155
10-30-2011, 03:29 AM
Good morning
I use PRB in all my frontloader long guns... .36, .50 .54& .58 rifled, .60 & .62 smoothies, .69 muskets and a variety of larger smoothbores. My dad was a muzzleloader and instilled in me the thought if a particular caliber RB will not do the task get a larger bore out. Has always worked but then I still hope to see a wolly mastadon down in the North Fork river bottoms one day.
Mike in Peru

Omnivore
11-02-2011, 09:44 PM
My 50 cal 24" bbl sidelock has killed four deer with patched round ball, from about 15 yards to around 85 yards. All with a load of 110 grains FF Goex. This load chronos at around 1,600 f.p.s. last I checked.

These were factory Speer balls, presumably pure lead. Exit holes look about the same as the entry holes. One recovered ball hit at a quartering away angle and penetrated 25 inches from an 85 yard shot, cutting ribs and stopping just under the skin. Another similar shot penetrated about 20 inches from about 30 yards. The others have cut ribs going both in and out, and there have never been signs of significant ball deformation. I still have the one recovered ball and could probably load it again.

A DRT event has to be somewhat rare without a central nervous system hit, I figure. One of our shots blew the heart completely apart and the deer ran ~30 yards. Last year's quartering away hit also at about 30 yards grazed the spine on the way out and dropped him in his tracks. The others have run some distance with wrecked lungs and heart hits.

I've been interested in conicals but haven't found a decent load for one until last week-- a Buffalo BallEt over 90 grains FF with a felt wad in between gave nearly a one-holer at 55 yards, and on very near the same POI as the PRB load. Might try it this season after some more testing. Those are 250 grain in 50 cal IIRC, as opposed the 50 cal RB at around 180 grains.

Anyway; Round ball worked OK for quite a few hundred years.

Prodigal Son
11-04-2011, 11:23 PM
First day of MZ season found me in a tree stand out back of the house with .54 cal T/C Renegade in hand. After a few pasted up shots at does and one spike buck Mr. Big Buck was down in this little ravine eating acorns and one shot @ 50 yards. 100 grs FFg rb and freezer full of meat. 10 point, 240 lbs on the hoof! He is in my avatar pic!

GrayFox
11-04-2011, 11:48 PM
White Eagle: Which weight of the .54 REALs do you shoot and what powder charge? What kind of accuracy are you getting with it?

roverboy
11-06-2011, 08:45 AM
First day of MZ season found me in a tree stand out back of the house with .54 cal T/C Renegade in hand. After a few pasted up shots at does and one spike buck Mr. Big Buck was down in this little ravine eating acorns and one shot @ 50 yards. 100 grs FFg rb and freezer full of meat. 10 point, 240 lbs on the hoof! He is in my avatar pic!

Good buck. The Renegade's are really good rifles. I've never owned a Renegade but, do have a New Englander. Every hunter I've talked to that shoots a Renegade loves it.

izzyjoe
11-06-2011, 09:51 PM
the Renegade has a more practical buttplate for hunting, but i love the looks of the Hawken.

Janoosh
11-07-2011, 10:04 AM
I use a Mountain State "Classic" flintlock. .490 round ball, .010 pre lubed patch, 80 grains of Goex 3f, the most holy black. As practice. Load and shoot three rounds, then clean. That's my hunting practice. The first round "should" kill or drop the deer. Second round to put out of misery if I blew the first shot. Third round "just in case somethin else shows up" when I'm field dressing the downed animal. I don't hunt with or walk thru the woods with an unloaded gun. That being said, a patched round does the job if the hunter does his. Get close, then closer yet.