Problems with Unique in .45ACP

[Roundball]

I'm relatively new to the world of cast bullets. Loaded up ninety-three rounds of 45 ACP with 6gr. of Unique with Lyman 452460 (WW&50/50 lube@.452) using Winchester Brass and Winchester .Primers. This load ran well in the SIG and Colt. On the down side, the SD ran from 17 to 77.24 . Loads-8 strings of ten shots-were chronographed on a Chrony Beta. I found this extreme spread disturbing. Is Unique a problem in .45 ACP. Could this variation be due to the character of Unique and a Dillon 550 (Sample were weighted on scales every tenth loaded round) ? To complicate matters, there is all sorts variation in the data out there for 200 gr. LSWC's in this caliber.

[ColColt]

I've used 6.5 gr of Unique with perfect satisfaction with the 200 gr SWC as well as 6 gr of Universal or 5.5 gr of 231.

You indicated the load ran well in the Colt and SIG. What is the pistol you're having this problem with? that powder with the Dillon should be no different than any other press. Maybe some charges are less than others to give that sort of deviation. Personally, I don't trust super-dooper presses but use an old Ohaus DU-O-MEASURE to charge cases and then at that, weigh every 7-10 round.

[rintinglen]

There is sometimes a bliss in ignorance, and knowledge can and does induce care. Back in my youthful poverty, I simply shot the rounds I loaded and thems as was nice tight and round were good and I made more, those were not got abandoned. You say that the Standard Deviations run from 17 to 77 and that you ran 8 10 shot strings. What is the Average SD? IME, cast loads with SD's of 30 or under tend to be good grouping loads. If one string was really bad, but the rest are OK, then I'd lose no more sleep over it. However I have to note that I have had problems with Unique in powder measures. It tends to vary in volume depending on how close flakes pack together, sometimes resulting in charge weight changes of +- .2 grains. Add a slightly undersized, not-quite fully filled out boolit that presents less resistance as it goes down the bore and that is not as firmly held by the case, and it is no wonder our spreads get bigger. I find that careful, consistent operation of the measure gives best results. On the Dillon 550, that means operating the handle the same each time to make sure that the press vibrates about the same each trip. Also, make sure your boolits are as uniform as you can make them, if utmost consistency is your goal. Finally, you may want to up the chrge slightly. I have shot quite a few200 Grain LSWC over Unique with excellent accuracy, but my charge was usually 7.0 Grains. Upping the charge weight a smidge may help.

[curator]

rintinglen is on to something. Unique is sometimes difficult to throw uniform charges from a measure. Although the Dillon advertizement may not mention this, Unique may give varied powder charges using their equipment. Dillons like ball powders not flakes like Unique. Nothing wrong with Unique. I personally love it for other reasons but not in my Dillons.

[Tim357]

how did the load perform at the target? Groups good? bad? If the projectiles are hitting the target in the same good group, who cares what SD or ES are? Proof is in the impact, IME.

[35remington]

Check the charge weight variation as obtained on the press. An alternative might be to use a powder measure known to handle the larger flake powders well, like Lee's Pro Auto Disk. I can get tenth grain, plus or minus, using it as long as I don't go too low in charge weight. In other words, no 380 auto loads. Using the press consistently to obtain consistent charge weight is a bit of an art.........you must do everything the exact same way every time, with no interruptions or changes in technique that might allow the powder to fill the cavity and settle differently.

Metering Unique well is hardly impossible. If I can do it, everyone can do it.....with the proper equipment and technique.

Ensure that the press is not vibrated by activities that do not involve using it. For example, when you load ammo, do you stop to collect the finished product after 20 or 30 rounds rather than waiting until it's all loaded, jostle the loading bench a little irregularly, or fiddle around with other things, all of which settle the powder sitting in the cavity and make it throw a heavier charge than standard?

If you're just loading ammo, and nothing else for the duration of the rounds that go through the press, then you'll have to look at how well your measure handles Unique.

Dillon measure or something else? Does the measure have separate pistol and rifle sized rotors?

The variation in data for 200 SWC's is perfectly understandable. There is a great variation in how deeply they seat in the case, and so may obtain considerably different pressures and velocities with identical charge weights. Many of the HG 68 clones seat more shallowly than the Lyman iteration you are using.

[beagle]

The guys are right....look at the charges as Unique is hard to throw consistently. I've used Unique in the .45 ACP in a variety of M1911 style guns and found it to be both accurate and consistent but I weighed all my charges.....dropped light and trickled up. I'm also using a single stage press and loading one at a time.

The .45 ACP is a fairly small capacity case with a 200 grain SWC taking up a lot of room. It stands to reason that uneven powder charges might cause a drastic swing in SD fluctuations.

Unique is a very good powder in the ,.45 ACP in the 6.0 grain/200 grain loading and even hotter but I won't publish loads I have used that were from old Elmer's data.

If you're gonna use a progressive, you may need to change to a more measure friendly powder./beagle

[HeavyMetal]

Unless the load does not perform to my expectation I pay zero attention to the SD readings!

SD is a factor you cannot control and you will drive yourself nuts trying to!

Let the target tell you if your load is performing! As long as you are not getting sqibs and failure to fire, causing your groups to look like shotgun patterns, do not look for something that is not wrong!

[scattershot]

Buy a box of match ammo, and check the SDs on those. Don't be so hard on yourself. If you're getting good groups, you're good to go.

[daschnoz]

Don't use Lee powder disks for flakes!!!!!!!! They jam.

Mine got jammed up on Unique and I loaded a dozen 9mm rounds with no powder. By the time I figured out what was going on, I already had a bunch in the bin. They were a joy at the range. The primer had just enough umpf to get the boolit lodged into the rifling. *!#&, $!@#, &*#$, %!@$, &^#$, *@&#, and many other 4 letter words were shouted that day.

As to the OP - Any flake can be a pain in the butt to meter correctly in small amounts. For Unique, anything below 5gr gets stupid in my RCBS Uni-Flo. Your Dillon may be experiencing the same stupidity.

Also, I don't know what reloading manual you have, but the Lyman 49 states 5.0gr to 7.5gr for that boolit. You're running on the lower side of the spectrum (40%). I have found that Unique seems to perform better when it is run at higher pressures. Try 6.4gr (56%) and work up to 6.8gr (75%) or so and see if your SD improves. Your powder measure may also perform better with the heavier loadings.

If you still get unsatisfactory results, switch to W231 or HP-38 (same powder, different label). W231 seems to be THE powder for 45ACP.

[tomme boy]

Sounds normal from what I have heard about it. Also It likes to run at max loads so it does not throw powder all over you. I don't use it in pistols anymore because it leaves powder flakes all over you when shooting.

[Oldslabsides]

I have real good luck with my RL550 and Unique w/200gr swc. Charge weights are off .1 plus or minus. Close enough for plinking.

Were all these firearms chrono-ed at the same time? Same barrel lengths? Same distance from chrono? I ask because, in my opinion, if it were a charge weight concern I would have expected some deviation in all guns to some extent.

I suspect that muzzle blast was causing the deviation more than anything. I use a blast shield with handguns if I want accurate readings.

[mongo]

Wow I wish this thread had run a few days ago. I just cast 1400 .45 lee rntl bullets. Went to my local gunshop and picked up a box of primers, they didnt have any 231 but a 4lb jug of Unique was just about all they had. I have used Unique in my .44mag rounds and .38 special so I bought it. I have a Dillon 550. I'll load my rounds on the warmer side, They are 230 grains.

[MtGun44]

I disovered this same thing 30+ yrs ago, with H&G 68, also 200 gr cast. We only cared
because we were shooting IPSC which has a major caliber requirement, and with the large
extreme spread, we might have a "slow" group pulled and tested and get downgraded
in our scoring. I found that with a very tight crimp, the ES was better and with 230 gr
boolits, it evened out nicely.

Unique is just a touch too slow for th 200 gr boolit in .45 ACP and burns slightly erratically.

HOWEVER - even with the ES going up to 100 fps variation, we had excellent accuracy. SO -
unless your particular game has them pulling three rounds per stage and checking them
over a chrono, forget about it.

I switched to Bullseye and got very small ES values. Later W231 did as well, and I now run
Titegroup and it about matches Bulleye, grain for grain in .45 ACP under a 200 LSWC.

Bill

[Larry Gibson]

Concur with MtGun44. Unless pushing 7 - 7.5 gr Unique is too slow for 200 gr cast in the 45 ACP. Try 5 - 5.5 gr Bullseye.

Larry Gibson

[Sonnypie]

Wouldn't it be nice if the manufacturers would say what powder the measure they sell you was designed for?
Ahh, in a perfect world!

I use W-231 as my 45 ACP powder and have been very happy with my loads. My favorite to date is 5.5g W-231 and a 230g RN cast boolit from Magnum shot with a smidgen of tin added. (I think Bumpo said .31% or about 1 1/4 oz to 20 pounds.)
It's a hard hitting, accurate load on the steels.

I've been throwing that in an RCBS powder measure and once set, it has been very consistent throughout my checks. Which are random.
That's on an RCBS Auto 4X4. I use the press to cycle the powder measure during adjustment and checks. Just like what would be happening during normal loading.

I used Unique in my 9mm back in the 1980's behind 120g cast boolits, and FMJ. I think my preference was for 4.5g, but don't recall for sure.

I don't believe any of the manufacturers design anything around the end user using cast boolits. So it takes a little trial and error,error,error,error.
Persistence pays off though. :Fire:

My Chronograph tests for a 5.0 and a 5.2 loading, 14 rounds each (2 clips) was:
5.0g
Highest....Lowest.....Avg Vel....Ext Sprd...Std Dev
796..........683..........747..........113........ ..29

5.2g
Highest....Lowest.....Avg Vel....Ext Sprd...Std Dev
809..........656..........721..........153........ ..64

I didn't get to Chronograph the 5.5g loads. But the above is showing less is more, as far as consistencies.

I would have loved to have been able to shoot many more strings, but couldn't that day. :x

[a.squibload]

Because of Unique flakes I developed a habit of double-tapping the handle
of the RCBS Uniflow, tap-tap at the top then tap-tap at the bottom. Usually
weigh first 3 charges, then every 5, throws consistent charges.

Also when I fill the hopper I throw a few charges in the scale pan and dump 'em
back in the hopper. Somebody said that will start a flow pattern?
Might be witchcraft, but couldn't hurt.

[ku4hx]

There was a time decades ago I'd clock every load. It got to be a dang chore trying to maximize this and minimize that and understand the other and compensate for so-and-so and etc. Then one day I realized clocking every pistol load was just a waste of time.

Now days this old man is way more interested in functioning and accuracy than statistics. Sure I want all loads to be consistent, but you can't get perfect consistency weighing every charge and handpicking "perfect" components. There's just going to be shot-to-shot and load-to-load variations.

If it goes bang every time, hits where I aim with acceptable accuracy, I just cast 'em, load 'em. shoot 'em and grin.

[JohnH]

There was a time decades ago I'd clock every load. It got to be a dang chore trying to maximize this and minimize that and understand the other and compensate for so-and-so and etc. Then one day I realized clocking every pistol load was just a waste of time.

Now days this old man is way more interested in functioning and accuracy than statistics. Sure I want all loads to be consistent, but you can't get perfect consistency weighing every charge and handpicking "perfect" components. There's just going to be shot-to-shot and load-to-load variations.

If it goes bang every time, hits where I aim with acceptable accuracy, I just cast 'em, load 'em. shoot 'em and grin.

Me too, +1

[casterofboolits]

Because of Unique flakes I developed a habit of double-tapping the handle
of the RCBS Uniflow, tap-tap at the top then tap-tap at the bottom. Usually
weigh first 3 charges, then every 5, throws consistent charges.

Also when I fill the hopper I throw a few charges in the scale pan and dump 'em
back in the hopper. Somebody said that will start a flow pattern?
Might be witchcraft, but couldn't hurt.

I developed the same system with the Uniflow for Unique. I gave up Unique when I went to a CH Autochamp Mk5a as Unique flakes would jam the brass powder bar. Switched to 231 and never looked back. :bigsmyl2:

[mpmarty]

I set up my RL550 and load a few rounds then re check the powder weight. I've seldom had to re-adjust the measure. Once that's done I just keep on keepin' on and near the end of the session I'll weigh a charge just for sh*ts and giggles. I never load to max in my pistols so I don't worry much.

[A pause for the COZ]

I just started using Unique. And after getting spoiled running ball powder through my auto disk powder measure. I found some intital ( and still have some) frustration dropping Unique. I get weights all over the board.

I have given up using it with the Auto disk for now and am hand dropping the charges.
Worth it too. I almost excusively used Bullseye for my cast boolit hand gun charges and was happy. At least until I tried Unique behind my heavier cast boolit in my hand guns.

115 gr boolit in my .327 fed mag and H&R mag. 180 gr boolit in my .357 mag. Good stuff.

[mroliver77]

Funny that my Dillon measures don't have a problem with Unique. I have 4 Dillons, 2 Lee disk and 2 RCBS Uniflow. The Lee are prolly the most accurate followed by Dllon then RCBS but all are acceptable. I did lap and hand fit the Lees. They are smooth and no longer leak H110. :)

I agree with the others that Unique is to slow for the .45ACP and 200gr lead boolits. It does like some pressure to burn clean. It was designed as a RIFLE powder.

Something else I have found out is using mixed brass mt SD will go up. I figure some cases have 2 firings while others have 20, 30 or Heaven only knows how many firings on them. Sometimes you can feel a "tired" case go through the loader. I always grab them and look them over. A lot of the time these are cracked but sometimes they are just "tired".

When looking for etreme accuracy, low numbers from the chrono I start with new or once fired brass. I trim, do primer pockets, flash holes and weigh. Weigh each boolit and powder charge. You can see the reasults on longer range handgun but for 25 yard stuff it is not real critical.

Using mixed brass, "Titewad" powder, Wolf primers and an H&G # 68 Mihec clone out of wonder alloy, loaded on my Dillon Square Deal, shot through my SA Inc "loaded" 1911 or my Colt Comander, I get very good accuracy. If I am on the ball these are scary accurate!
I am very concious of cadence when running the press. I believe this is crucial especially with progressives and powder droppers.
J

[x101airborne]

The 45 acp was the first caliber that I reloaded in my Dillon 650 and I used unique. The problem for me, was the dillon was set tight and would splash powder out of the case when the machine indexed. I called dillon, the tec walked me through some things and I havent had a problem since. I have used only unique and my dillon on several calibers and only changed to 296 for my heavy 44 mag. I really dont know what would be causing your issues other than a possible splash of powder coming out of the case.

[RidgerunnerAk]

Great thread. I do the tap-tap at top and bottom with ALL powders. This can help a lot with load consistency. My old Lyman 55? was it?? would get totally jammed up with any flake powder so I now use a Redding and the Lyman is retired to a back shelf somewhere. I haven't used the Redding for .45ACP yet and don't have the small cap meter for it. I like lighter target loads for plinking so should get one before doing much .45 with it. I know it won't throw IMR3031 accurately at all, like +/- .7gr, which is as bad as I've seen ever. I measure every load for my .45-90's. Good to read about the 231 powder in the .45ACP; I think I have some on the shelf and will use it up on the .45 when the time comes.

[Larry Gibson]

My 4 Dillon measures don't have a problem with Unique either.

Larry Gibson

[garym1a2]

It happened to me with the autodisk and clays in the 45acp. It also happened with me in 9mm and WSF. Both times on the Classic cast turrent press. With the 45 I caught it with an empty case in the chamber and a bullet stuck in the barrelel. With the 9mm I caught it on the pres, had to send a batch of rounds to the bin to be pulled. Unique meters poorly for me. Over 6 grains also seems on the warm side.


My policy is an emty case in the chamber means a boolit stuck in the gun.

Don't use Lee powder disks for flakes!!!!!!!! They jam.

Mine got jammed up on Unique and I loaded a dozen 9mm rounds with no powder. By the time I figured out what was going on, I already had a bunch in the bin. They were a joy at the range. The primer had just enough umpf to get the boolit lodged into the rifling. *!#&, $!@#, &*#$, %!@$, &^#$, *@&#, and many other 4 letter words were shouted that day.

As to the OP - Any flake can be a pain in the butt to meter correctly in small amounts. For Unique, anything below 5gr gets stupid in my RCBS Uni-Flo. Your Dillon may be experiencing the same stupidity.

Also, I don't know what reloading manual you have, but the Lyman 49 states 5.0gr to 7.5gr for that boolit. You're running on the lower side of the spectrum (40%). I have found that Unique seems to perform better when it is run at higher pressures. Try 6.4gr (56%) and work up to 6.8gr (75%) or so and see if your SD improves. Your powder measure may also perform better with the heavier loadings.

If you still get unsatisfactory results, switch to W231 or HP-38 (same powder, different label). W231 seems to be THE powder for 45ACP.

[fredj338]

Unless the load does not perform to my expectation I pay zero attention to the SD readings!

SD is a factor you cannot control and you will drive yourself nuts trying to!

Let the target tell you if your load is performing! As long as you are not getting sqibs and failure to fire, causing your groups to look like shotgun patterns, do not look for something that is not wrong!

^^THIS^^^ I find at hangun ranges out to 25yds, it just doesn't matter. Unique gets better as you get closer to the top end w/ SD in the teens. At lower vel/pressures, it gets a bit erratic, but accuarcy is still terrific w/ lead bullets in most calibers.
I get good results on my Dillon 550. I did polish the interior of the measure & keep the return rod snug so it pops back into place the same way each time. Getting 0.1gr +/- charges is pretty routine.

[Hang Fire]

I'm relatively new to the world of cast bullets. Loaded up ninety-three rounds of 45 ACP with 6gr. of Unique with Lyman 452460 (WW&50/50 lube@.452) using Winchester Brass and Winchester .Primers. This load ran well in the SIG and Colt. On the down side, the SD ran from 17 to 77.24 . Loads-8 strings of ten shots-were chronographed on a Chrony Beta. I found this extreme spread disturbing. Is Unique a problem in .45 ACP. Could this variation be due to the character of Unique and a Dillon 550 (Sample were weighted on scales every tenth loaded round) ? To complicate matters, there is all sorts variation in the data out there for 200 gr. LSWC's in this caliber.

After using Unique for .45 acp over several decades, IMO, Unique per se is not the problem, I would look eleswhere.

[MtGun44]

Unique is a great powder, but it is a bit slow for .45 ACP with light boolits. It doesn't
generate enough pressure to burn consistently until you use either hot loads or a bit
heavier boolits. The strange thing is that you can take a load that has a 100 fps ES for
10 shots and it will be very accurate.

Ultimately, it is not fixable but it is also completely irrelevant to anything that we would
normally care about. The ONLY reason I cared back in 1981 when I was doing this is that
I was having ammo pulled at IPSC matches and ONLY 3 RDS chronographed. If I had a run
of bad luck and was running a load 'near the edge', I might be rescored as minor caliber
due to the high ES possible.

For target shooting or hunting or self defense, why would anyone care if the velocity varies?

If you do care, pick a different powder, slightly faster. Unique will do the job at low pressure,
with good accuracy, but it will have a bit more variation than some other powders.

Unique is a personal favorite powder, works great in many cartridges. It is just a bit slow
for light loads and lighter boolits in .45 ACP loads.

Much ado about nothing, IMO.

Bill

[shooting on a shoestring]

Roundball, you have comitted chronography. Its a sin that carries its own punishment. Once you've seen one velocity, you want to see them all.

I used to shoot lots of Unique until I had a bridging episode in .38 Spl. So, I switched to Herco, and have had great results in .38 Spl, .357, and .45Colt.

I don't do autos, so I can't speak to the 45 ACP, but do some research. Up the charge as has been suggested, try different powders like Bullseye and Herco, and also, remember that the chronograph also has measurement error(s). You should also make a string of measurements with the muzzle down before firing and compare with muzzle up before firing. You'll probably see variation due to where the powder is before firing.

[Roundball]

Thanks for the help on resolving this concern. The loads were chronographed in the same session. Rounds were loaded in one lot. Accuracy was marginal with better results from Bullseye as used in matches. Dillon provided some good information. This situation with Unique was aggravated by the tension on the Fail Safe rod being insufficient. Was told to tighten blue wing nut when the press handle was vertical until until the coils were compressed to allow a credit card to be inserted. This degree of tension would make sure the powder slide would go fully through the cycle. Also replaced the bellcrank cube (white square) that actives the powder slide. Also have decided to stick with 231 or similar. Thanks again for your help.

[Doble Troble]

I load Unique in 45 ACP and 9 mm for USPSA pistols. I use it for 12 ga slugs for multigun. It works really well for everything!

Pistol loads (200 gr SWC for 45 with 5.3 gr, 105 gr SWC with 5.3 gr for 9, and 120 gr with 4.5 gr for 9s that won't feed the SWC) are all loaded with the Lee Autodisk measure on a LoadMaster 5-place press that makes visual checks for powder effortless.

The only squib I've ever had was with a 12 ga slug (bad experience to be avoided even without kaboom getting a slug out of a 12 ga bbl isn't easy).

Unique is accurate and works well for a variety of different loads. In 45 ACP its vanilla ice cream with apple pie. Something tells me that low-pressure semi-auto pistols will never be the most consistent with velocity. If the loads are accurate, and aren't getting you bumped to minor in matches, no harm, no foul.

[Shooter6br]

I prefer Universal over Unique

[Lizard333]

Having a similar bullet, and also using a Dillon, you are making a good decision to use 231. I made the switch finding that it metered poorly and was a dirty powder that made my shinny stainless pistols turn black. 231 burns much cleaner and meters well in a Dillon. And Dillon does recommend ball powders whenever possible. Just ask them.

[randyrat]

When I run Unique; always tap the powder measure and tap the same every time. The stuff bridges so easily....As said by Mt Gun44; best for heavier boolits.

[Outch]

Great Post. Was wondering why my light loads were so dirty and had so much unburnt powder. :mrgreen:

Thanks :bigsmyl2:

[mongoose33]

Some of this may be about expectations.

My "standard" for standard deviations of chrono'd loads--a measure of consistency of loads--is this:

Rifle Rounds: One percent of the average velocity.

Pistol Rounds: Two percent of the average velocity.

In my experience it is VERY difficult to get below two percent for pistol rounds. Part of this, IMO, is the inherent variation in powder loads. Imagine weighing by hand every load; if your powder measure has a +/- accuracy of .1 grains, that means just from variation in the measuring device you could have a variance of .2 grains. In a six-grain load, that exceeds three percent right there. Factor in variance in boolit weight, neck tension on the boolit, possible variation in boolit diameter (though if sizing that should be minimal), and one realizes how hard it is for all those variables to align each and every time.

For rifle loads using, say, 25 grains of powder, that .2 variance is less than 1 percent.

That said, I would have liked to have seen the figures for all SD's not just the highest and lowest. The lowest, 17, is in the 2 percent range I note above. The 77 is extreme; I don't think I've ever had one of those. And when I do have an "extreme" SD, it's typically due to one very divergent round in the string of 10. Might yours have been almost a squib round?

So are you sure the 77 is correct? Might it be measuring error? And what about the other SD's? How close or far from 17 are they?

[Blackwater]

I guess I'll have to dissent here. I have a notion that 6.0 gr. Unique with the 200 gr. bullet is just too light a charge for that bullet and wt. 6.5 gr. with the 230 gr. used to be a "standard" load, and Unique has always been hailed as one of the very best in the .45 ACP. I'm thinking that Unique, like most all "medium" burn rate powders, just needs a bit more pressure to burn uniformly. The only way to increase pressure to get that more consistent (and usually cleaner, too) burn is to increase the charge level. Lots of folks think reducing ANY powder's charge wt. will result in a good load, and only worry about not going over max., but there's some danger in too light a load, too, or at least problems getting some powders to burn consistently at lower pressures.

I'd recommend a change to a faster burning powder like Bullseye, 700X, Titegroup or something like that for your light loads, and keep the Unique for more standard level loads.

One other factor you might want to check out the next time you load is your crimps. They also can lead to variations in the ACP and most other auto calibers. If you're using mixed cases and/or they're varying in length, the strength of the crimps will vary accordingly, with the longer cases having heavier crimps and the shorter ones lighter. I learned long ago to crimp my auto rounds in a separate step. If we try to seat and crimp at the same time, think about what happens. The bullet is likely still going down in the case as the crimp starts to fold in, thus, pushing up a tiny ring of lead from the sides of the bullet ahead of the case mouth. This can lead to functioning problems in an auto by that tiny little sliver of a ring of lead being pressed into the front of your chamber. When it builds up enough, it'll prevent ctgs. from chambering and leave the slide unlocked at its forward motion. I know it seems to be a "lot of trouble" to crimp as a separate stage, but so is cleaning out those little rings in the front of your chamber, and it's really not that bad once you learn to do it separately, and the reliability of the ammo is DEFINITELY increased. Give both these things a try and see what your results are. I'm betting they'll tighten up those SD's, and BTW, large SD's CAN sometimes perform, but they're an indication that something in a load needs to be improved, and that's usually not a big problem to do. Some folks just don't want to change anything they do, and aren't really interested in really good loads. Anything that doesn't blow up and goes "bang" is OK with them, and with the hustle and bustle lifestyles most of us live, that's understandable. However, I HAVE found that most of us CAN, if we really WANT to, FIND a little time for stuff like this, and when we do, sometimes we find that the results are actually worth it. You're doing very good by keeping a good account and measuring the results of your loading. Keep it up and you'll find many interesting things will happen, and most of them will make you a significantly better shooter and marksman. Good luck to you.

[rsrocket1]

You two do realize that this thread is nearly 5 years old?
I hope he figured it out by now.

[dudel]

My 4 Dillon measures don't have a problem with Unique either.

Larry Gibson

+3
I have three Dillon measures that have no problem with Unique on my 550b

Seems like a silly question, but here goes. Are you using the small charge bar, and is the spacer pinned?

[Blackwater]

I always read for content, and am prone to miss the dates. Still, some may find the post interesting, don't you think?

[fredj338]

Wow I wish this thread had run a few days ago. I just cast 1400 .45 lee rntl bullets. Went to my local gunshop and picked up a box of primers, they didnt have any 231 but a 4lb jug of Unique was just about all they had. I have used Unique in my .44mag rounds and .38 special so I bought it. I have a Dillon 550. I'll load my rounds on the warmer side, They are 230 grains.
6gr of Unique under a 230grRNL, bread & butter right there. I agree, Unqiue is not for light target loads, but 6gr will work fine for 200gr LSWC too.
The Dillon works fine with Unique. Make sure the powder fail safe rod is snug. Then internal polishing of the measure w/ 600g paper helps quite a bit.

[Hang Fire]

I can only speak for my Dillon Square Deal (not a B). But since 1987 it has cranked out thousands of .45 acp rounds without a hiccup and I could not be more satisfied with it.

[44man]

rintinglen is on to something. Unique is sometimes difficult to throw uniform charges from a measure. Although the Dillon advertizement may not mention this, Unique may give varied powder charges using their equipment. Dillons like ball powders not flakes like Unique. Nothing wrong with Unique. I personally love it for other reasons but not in my Dillons.
I have to go with this, not an easy powder to measure and a little more might be the ticket too.
Forget the numbers too, they have nothing to do with accuracy.
I have been to an SD of 1 and they shot worse then any load ever. I have never worked loads across the machine and only use it to see velocity when I find my load. Curiosity only!
I use a Redding BR measure that has the small chamber for those funky powders along with the larger one and it will hold Unique very close.
It is true that movement of the progressive as you size, expand and seat will jostle powder. It only takes a few dots of the flake powders to be out.

[Virginia John]

UNIQUE has it's place but not necessarily in 200 gr LSWC .45 ACPs. What MT44 said has also been my experience. Use Bullseye, W-231, TIGHTGROUP or HP-38 (same as W-231). If all you are doing is punching paper pay attention to the POI and forget the chrony.

[leadhead]

I always use a Belding and Mull powder measure and never have problems
with screwy loads.
Denny

[Dragonheart]

Roundball,

When it comes to variation between you loads there are so many variables. Starting with your case; were all your cases out of the same batch, was the case length the same and close to .895", where the primer pocket clean and uniform so the primers were fully seated, were the flash holes uniform and deburred? Was your powder charge dropped or measured? Flake powder is much harder to drop consistently. Were your bullets sorted by weight. Were your bullets sized for the barrel? Was your OAL consistent and was the OAL set for the least amount of bullet travel before engaging the riffling? I am sure I have left some things out, but you get my drift.

[MtGun44]

First noticed very large extreme spreads back in early 1980s, and it was a concern
because of the need to make major caliber - a certain min average velocity. Tighter
crimp and heavier boolits reduced it a lot. In the end I switched powders for IPSC,
but the odd thing is that these loads are still quite accurate. So, if you aren't doing
competition where velocity is critical....... who cares?

[runfiverun]

unique is just a bit too slow for me in the 45 acp I will see sparks and a wiff of smoke from the ejection port with every shot.
it's pretty darn accurate though with 230gr boolits.

I have switched the 45 loads over to green-dot and have had a lot better luck with it.
I really don't see a huge issue with odd ball flyers using either powder in my 550's.
for some reason the jostling and movement of the powder dump seems to help them pour pretty good loads.

[MtGun44]

Yes, it is just a hair too slow, and with 200 gr and light crimp, inconsistent
velocities, but still good accuracy. I agree that 230 gr helps minimize velocity
variation, as does a really tight crimp. As many have said, I no longer use
Unique very often for this cartridge. Works OK, but I reserve Unique for .44 Mag and
rifles, plus my carry load for .38 Spl. Hot loads of Unique in .45ACP work well,
too.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52430&d=1307446037

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51815&d=1289713935

Penetration in ballistic gelatin is twice the depth of what it is in wet newspapers.

[runfiverun]

unique would for sure be the first powder I tried with 250 gr loads in the acp.
it 'works' in a lot of places and it does have some spots where it shines, but it isn't my favorite powder.