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colt 357
10-07-2011, 06:42 PM
I posted this link below on what it takes to break into the cheaper gun safes. Now I had a old friend of mine told me once that a lock only keep a honest person out if a crook wants in he well get in. now to me the bigger safes equals bigger bar and a another guy. could anchor it to the floor but even that can be defeated. So I guess you have to weigh out how much you would want to spend to try to keep your guns safe. but insurance is the best I guess but thats getting high to.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBhOjWHbD6M

Ickisrulz
10-07-2011, 06:52 PM
Any safe can be defeated if the criminal has enough time and the correct tools. The two guys that delivered my 800 pound safe did so pretty easily too.

Insurance is the only safe bet.

knifemaker
10-07-2011, 07:22 PM
During my 30 years in law enforcement, I can only remember two cases where the thieves got to the guns contained in a gun safe. On one, the owner forgot to spin the dial and left the safe unlocked as he was away for about 4 hours.
The other case the gunowner had the safe at his business in a small warehouse. Over the weekend the thieves used the owner's own forklift to pick up the safe and put it in their pickup bed and drive off.

You stand more of chance to lose your guns from a fire then theft if you use a safe and keep it locked up when you are away from home for any period of time.

Blacksmith
10-07-2011, 08:36 PM
They would have had a much harder time if they couldn't lay it down and have clear access. Bolt it down and keep it confined. And I was waiting for the owner to walk in and blow them away.

Blacksmith

Johnch
10-07-2011, 09:53 PM
Even bolted down will not stop them if they want your stuff

Not far from me
A guy lost his safe and the side of his house one afternoon

The theives stole a tow truck
Backed the boom into the side of the house on both sides of the safe
They wraped the cable around the safe and yanked the safe , floor and part of the wall out
Then drove away

A week or so later the tow truck and safe were found in a barn
But what ever was in the safe was long gone

Best to have insurance and not tell the general public that you have toys

John

fatelk
10-07-2011, 10:05 PM
I suppose youtube is a pretty good tutorial for aspiring young criminals.:(

Personally I think the whole discussion about safes is a lot like the talk of what gun to carry. The same folks who say the only safe worth having costs more than your house are the same guys who believe that the only self-defense gun worth carrying is a high-dollar heavy-caliber weapon with all the extras.

A .22 is a lot better than nothing, the same way that a locking sheet metal cabinet is better than nothing (however marginally). I live in a safe residential neighborhood and don't have a lot of nice stuff. My neighbors aren't snoopy, but we all keep an eye on what goes on. If something is amiss it gets noticed pretty quick. If an inexpensive safe is all I can afford for my inexpensive collection, then it's better than just putting them in the closet or under the bed.

If I lived in a secluded area and had an expensive collection to attract professional thieves, I would spend the money on a nice safe and some insurance. I know that someone with the right tools and know-how could break into the most secure safe on earth, but it's just stuff so I'm not going to spend much time worrying about it. I do get tired of hearing that if you don't buy a $10,000 safe you're just stupid.


a lock only keep a honest person out if a crook wants in he well get in
This is true, to a degree. It takes varying levels of know-how and determination to get into the varying levels of safes.

A thin sheet-metal locker will keep out curious little ones and maybe the neighbor's delinquent ten year old.
A $250 big-box store safe will usually keep out the smash and grab druggie and the neighborhood teenage punks (maybe).
The $1000 middle of the road safe securely bolted down should deter many or most average crooks
unless they have time and seclusion to really go at it.
Hopefully the big money safes should stop all but professional thieves who really know what they are doing.

I really think it's important to have a safe of some kind, so it's better to get what you can afford than go without because you can't buy the best.

bob208
10-08-2011, 05:00 AM
well i have been down this road. they broke into my house and worked on my safe for over an hour . found the bruned down candles they used. there is a divid in the door where they tries to pry it open. they broke off the dial that set off the safety pin. they tried to brun out the seal around the door.

the result cost me $400 to get the lock company to open and repair the safe. but all the guns money and papers are still mine.

it is a liberty gun safe. best insurance i ever bought.

garym1a2
10-08-2011, 06:22 AM
layer the floor of your safe with a ton of lead. Make it very hard for them to carry it away.
don't leave tools at home unlock that they can use to break into the safe.
document your guns including serial numbers, many don't.
take good pictures of the guns and keep them online in a safe location.
Insure them and don't let anyone know you have guns.

alamogunr
10-08-2011, 09:54 AM
I guess to remain absolutely correct I should say that I own a Residential Security Cabinet. I live in a close knit neighborhood and if anyone tried to get my "safe" out of my shop, someone would call the police or sheriff. I have about 500 lb of lead in the bottom. I don't have it bolted to the concrete floor yet. I didn't do it when I first got it because I thought I might want to place it somewhere else in the shop. Now I dread the thought of emptying it to mark and drill holes for anchor bolts.

My older son has offered me a regular safe that his company does not want to move to a new location. I haven't seen it but hopefully, it is a size that would be ideal for my handguns. The safe hasn't been used in years and the locks are in the locked position with the door open. The manufacturer wants $100 to send me the information to change the combination so it can be closed and locked.

I guess what I am saying is that I can't afford a Brown safe. I have priced them and could buy several high dollar guns with the money one would cost. I agree with others that a decent "Residential Security Cabinet" and insurance is a good compromise.

fatelk
10-08-2011, 12:18 PM
I did a quick search and looked at those Brown safes. Very nice! I wish I had the funds to buys one, the room to put it in, and the guns to fill it. Unfortunately some of them cost more than the combined value of my collection.


don't let anyone know you have guns
This is tough to do. It's important to be selective about who you tell or show them to, but what's the point of having nice stuff if it's a big secret?

I have one friend in particular who likes to talk. We've been friends a long time. We go shooting once in a while and he's seen all my guns. He once introduced me to a friend of his and it concerned me what he was telling his friend about me right in front of me.
"This is the guy I was telling you about. He knows everything about guns and has more guns than you can imagine. He has this massive safe with a fortune in guns"- something like that.:(

My meager collection is very modest. The quantity may look impressive to someone who doesn't know guns, but there are a lot of sub-$100 Mosin-Nagants, Turkish Mausers and the like. Very few nice guns and nothing "high-dollar" at all. I talked to him about it later and asked him to not tell people about what I have. He thought I was overreacting and brushed it off, but who knows how far and wide that bit of fiction went? His buddy might be fine, but maybe his buddy told his buddy, who passed it on to a dozen of his closest friends who need some drug money or something.

I told him that if he's going to exaggerate, he should tell everyone about my extensive security system, the trained Dobermans and armed guards.:)

Realistically, though, my priorities are not in all my stuff. Sometimes I feel like I should get rid of most of my stuff (gun collection, reloading gear, etc.) and focus on the more important things in life than collecting stuff that I have to worry about someone stealing.

bob208
10-08-2011, 12:23 PM
i agree about ins companies don't like them don't trust them. paying for the ins. with anysize collection first year buys a very good safe and i mean safe. also most want all the guns regersted with the police. if not then you don't own them in the first place.

alamogunr
10-08-2011, 12:36 PM
i agree about ins companies don't like them don't trust them. paying for the ins. with anysize collection first year buys a very good safe and i mean safe. also most want all the guns regersted with the police. if not then you don't own them in the first place.

Not sure I understand this.

oneokie
10-08-2011, 12:47 PM
Verification by a third party that one does in fact have possession of the guns listed for insurance purposes.

alamogunr
10-08-2011, 12:53 PM
Does the insurance company require that this verification be by the police?? If so, insurance is out!

oneokie
10-08-2011, 01:18 PM
Not necessarily. Ask the ins. co. what their proceedure is for verifying your possession, and who they provide your information to.

btroj
10-08-2011, 01:23 PM
I think the security of the safe depends largely upon the thief. Most want a quick in and out. They aren't going to spend lots of time for stuff in a safe if they have electronics or jewelry they can get quickly.
My Browning safe makes me feel pretty secure. It is below grade so nobody is getting a vehicle near it. I own no cutting torch or big drills so they are going to need to bring them with.

Three-Fifty-Seven
10-08-2011, 02:23 PM
Make them have to make noise ...

MT Gianni
10-08-2011, 02:31 PM
My insurance agent asked if I had any collections. I replied " I got some guns". A rider of 25K costs me less than $75 a year and no more questions were asked.

knifemaker
10-08-2011, 03:03 PM
Even though I have a very good gun safe, I also have a insurance rider on my guns for replacement value. this is just a seperate rider policy attached to my standard home insurance policy. The cost most times is less then $100.00 per year.

I just submitted a list of firearms to the insurance company giving a description of the firearms and their replacement value. I noted on the form that I used a current gun value book that is used by dealers and the insurance company accepted that. Some insurance may ask you to have a licensed gun dealer examine and set the price for the guns. I have never heard of a insurance company requesting that you confirm the guns with the police and I live in CA. THE STATE of gun laws.

kopperl
10-08-2011, 03:05 PM
My insurance carrier asked more questions about my old camera collection than my guns. Have no idea what they were thinking.

fatelk
10-08-2011, 04:49 PM
IIRC more than half of the "safes" are not even hooked down! And some are left unlocked!
A friend told me a story a couple years ago about a coworker who moved into his area. They hit it off right away because the guy had a bunch of guns. He moved his safe into his new house and hadn't bolted it down yet, just sitting against the wall with tens of thousands of dollars worth of guns in it, then was out of town for a couple days to finish moving. Someone apparently saw him moving the safe in, broke in when he was gone, and carted away the whole safe! He had a list of his guns with serial numbers and photos, but it was in the safe with the guns!

Another story I heard when I worked for a gunsmith was of some folks who had a sizable gun collection in their expensive safe, along with jewelry and cash. They were out for the evening and had left the safe unlocked. Someone got into their house and stole whatever they could grab of value, but fortunately was too stupid or in a hurry to even check the handle on the safe.:)

So yeah, there are a few inexpensive things you can do to be a little more secure. Bolt that safe down, even if it's a cheap one (make it a little harder for them to get into). Make a good list with serials and photos (don't store it with the guns). Last but not least- remember to keep it locked.

alamogunr
10-08-2011, 06:01 PM
OK! You guys have convinced me that I need to bolt the safe to the floor. There are only two holes in the bottom of the safe and they will only accept .375 bolts. Do I need more bolts than 2 and are .375 bolts big enough. I suspect that 2 more .375 bolts would be sufficient but if I'm only using 2 bolts, then I would need to move up to .500 bolts. Whatever is recommended, I may just stay with 2 bolts, .375 or .500 dia. with a backing plate. I don't really want to be drilling too many holes in my concrete shop floor.

frankenfab
10-08-2011, 06:05 PM
2 3/8" bolts is a lot of holding power. I assume the 2 holes are caddy-corner to each other.

alamogunr
10-08-2011, 07:45 PM
2 3/8" bolts is a lot of holding power. I assume the 2 holes are caddy-corner to each other.

No, They are midway front to back on opposite sides. I would have preferred that they be as you described.

semtav
10-08-2011, 08:40 PM
I assume the 2 holes are caddy-corner to each other.

I thought it was "kiddy corner" and "caddy wompus"

Blacksmith
10-08-2011, 08:48 PM
Be sure to use grade 8 bolts for the highest strength.

Blacksmith

I had a catty wompus but he ran away.

alamogunr
10-08-2011, 09:14 PM
I would think that Grade 5 would match the strength of the anchors. Grade 8 bolts are not commonly available around here. I would probably have to order them, especially in the length I would need.

There is a lot of good information here:

http://tinyurl.com/kzqmpI know that those that advocate $10K+ safes won't agree with most of it. I don't agree with the suggestion that lag bolts and lead anchors be used. Lag bolts are Grade 2 at best. There may be some that exceed that but would probably be harder to find than Grade 8 machine bolts. This is the type I propose to use:

I had a picture here but it wouldn't show. See what I'm talking about here:
http://tinyurl.com/3hewptv

In this case, a Grade 5 nut would be appropriate used with a backing plate at least .250" thick or greater.

Comments?

Blacksmith
10-08-2011, 10:23 PM
After looking at concrete fastener strengths grade 8 is overkill. The fastener in the concrete and strength of the concrete are the limiting factors.

Blacksmith

alamogunr
10-08-2011, 10:39 PM
This is what was shipped with my $4,000. Brown safe - 1/2" bolts, with two 3/4" holes in the floor:


I drilled another hole in the floor and added an extra, PLUS two more in the back wall near the top . . . drilling holes in concrete is easy, compared to the 1/2" steel! (used a hammer drill on the concrete!)

By anchoring to two different planes, it will be MUCH harder to break it loose![smilie=w:

I wish! My $1900 safe came with two 1/2" holes and no bolts. I guess that is why it cost $2100 less.:lol:

Securing my safe thru the back wall will be difficult. My shop is stud construction. I would have to locate the holes at stud locations and center lag bolts in 2X studs. Since the safe is in a corner and right next to my loading bench, which has to weigh at least 500 lbs(the top alone weighs 200#) with all the stuff I have stored on a lower shelf and on top, I don't think it would be too easy to move the safe and defeat the anchor bolts.

I think some of the things I gripe about, the lack of room, etc, would work in my favor if someone broke into the shop.

This discussion has given me some incentive to secure the safe and discuss insurance with my agent(a friend). The result may not be optimum but it will help ease my mind when we are away from home. I always worry that someone that knows I have a few guns will try to relieve me of them. Now I'm going to investigate a loud alarm.

lathesmith
10-08-2011, 11:14 PM
Do a search on youtube for "Sturdy Gun Safe", they have a few videos where they test various types of concrete anchors with a fork lift. Conclusion: the stud-type anchors give good holding power, as does the "blind" type that Shawn shows in post #30; the weakest are the lead-sheild type, which really don't offer that much holding power by comparision. I believe they recommend the 1/2" anchors, which gives good holding strength and should be adequate for most home concrete installations.

lathesmith

Three-Fifty-Seven
10-08-2011, 11:39 PM
Like this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSM2gsf6X1w&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

or this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibVTrWBqL7Y&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Seems to work pretty good! :mrgreen:

pmer
10-09-2011, 12:09 AM
I guess to remain absolutely correct I should say that I own a Residential Security Cabinet. I live in a close knit neighborhood and if anyone tried to get my "safe" out of my shop, someone would call the police or sheriff. I have about 500 lb of lead in the bottom. I don't have it bolted to the concrete floor yet. I didn't do it when I first got it because I thought I might want to place it somewhere else in the shop. Now I dread the thought of emptying it to mark and drill holes for anchor bolts.

My older son has offered me a regular safe that his company does not want to move to a new location. I haven't seen it but hopefully, it is a size that would be ideal for my handguns. The safe hasn't been used in years and the locks are in the locked position with the door open. The manufacturer wants $100 to send me the information to change the combination so it can be closed and locked.

I guess what I am saying is that I can't afford a Brown safe. I have priced them and could buy several high dollar guns with the money one would cost. I agree with others that a decent "Residential Security Cabinet" and insurance is a good compromise.

Alamogunr, I would like a crack at saving you a $100 for the manufacturer info. I have been working on safes and changing combos as part of my job for 10 years. From Safe Deposit vault doors to lockers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Prq2Z5yAGPA&feature=related

I was looking on youtube saw these Ramset anchors. I have the mechanical ones in my work truck in 3/8 and 1/2. I like the idea of adding weight the safe incase they get it broke loose from the floor too.

cobroller
10-09-2011, 09:19 AM
... Last but not least- remember to keep it locked.

Last week my two year year old (yesterday) grandson walked up to my safe and pulled on the handle. The pins retracted and he pulled the door open. I turned around when I heard him say "guns."

I always key lock it if I leave the room and combination lock it if I leave the house. In my case the key fits all the safes of this brand.

I do worry about the possibility of fire more than theft. But an unlocked safe is so easy a two year old can get it open.

DCM
10-09-2011, 12:51 PM
I think some of the things I gripe about, the lack of room, etc, would work in my favor if someone broke into the shop.

Now I'm going to investigate a loud alarm.

Alarms are a good DETERRENT.

Well my first question is if it is in your shop are there thing around the shop that could be helpful in opening the safe?? If so it would be wise to lock them in the safe or otherwise make them inaccessible or useless when you are not there.

Every means you can use to deter them and slow them down will help. Alarms, cameras, dogs, Outdoor motion lights (which let others know something is up, give good light for the cameras, are just plain convenient for your use), bolts etc.

35isit
10-10-2011, 09:04 AM
This has been discussed before on other forums and in gun shops. Most safes can be entered in less than 5 minutes with only 2 powered tools. A drill and sawsall. If you think about it most safes are thin on top or the sides. Drill one hole in each corner large enough to accept a sawsall blade. Simply cut a hole large enough to reach in and extract whats in the safe. This is predicated on there being ample time and secrecy to do the job. In most large thefts the thieves know their victims. Most of the time they know when you left and when you will return. If I was going to break into my safe that's how I would do it.

pmer
10-10-2011, 10:03 AM
Yeah I have a average costing gun safe too. This is another reason for a well rounded approach to secure valuables.

I watched some perp video of a sawzall used to enter a low cost cabinet. 35isit is right, it doesn't take long.

I just thought of this but I wonder if a trick to stop a sawzall would be to add plate to the outside of the safe.

Marvin S
10-10-2011, 10:24 AM
Sacrifice a closet or similar area to install the safe in or at least a corner. Limit pry point's. Old large band saw blades or files can be attached to the inner walls with luquid nails.

35isit
10-10-2011, 11:14 AM
IMO no safe is theft proof. With time all can be defeated, depending on theif. "Most" are only good against smash and grab guys. If they want it bad enough they will get it. 3 personal stories I know of. 1st they tore door off of after they carried out of house. 2nd they tore door off of in house. They actually broke the floor joists it was anchored to. 3rd they used owners backhoe and pulled roof and wall off of house. They then loaded in back of his dump truck hauled off. This was not a gun safe. It was a big safe like used in a busines. When found it whad never been opened. It had been drug behind truck. Everything in it was ruined. These guys weren't very smart. In all 3 cases they knew where owners were and when they would return.

Marvin S
10-10-2011, 11:33 AM
One thing is for sure, if you leave em out and don't have a safe they will get stolen. Safe's have saved me three times. As for the ones not in the safe, they are long gone. You may also check out a product called burglar bomb. Put as many obstacles between the scum bag's and your property as you can.

Reg
10-10-2011, 11:47 AM
Safes are good and even the worst is better than nothing at all, but something else to consider is to not let the goblins even get into the house at all.
CN- pepper gas and a couple others (Revel Technology, Inc Birdsboro, Pa. ) when properly set up will not only protect your guns but the whole house as well.
Do they work ? Number two son was in a hurry to get to the bathroom after we returned from a trip , used his key to open the door and dispite my yell , set off the system we use.
Took a good six hours before we could stand to go into the house and this was with a lot of eye burning and hard coughing. Even the next day in calm corners where the fans didn't move the air we would get into a patch of it and it was still more than enough to get you going again. Someone ever get in the basement when one of those went off, I doubt if they could make it out. Nasty stuff. But no doubt in my mind as to its workability.
Can be set up with trip wires, infra red and other simple to install methods, and considering even losing one good shotgun,or even a new TV, very cheap to put in.
Better check your local regulations though. Not legal in some places.
Only drawback I could see was like in my case, it takes about ten minutes to arm or disarm the system. There again, a small price to pay.

:Fire:

garym1a2
10-10-2011, 12:51 PM
Add plate to the inside.

Yeah I have a average costing gun safe too. This is another reason for a well rounded approach to secure valuables.

I watched some perp video of a sawzall used to enter a low cost cabinet. 35isit is right, it doesn't take long.

I just thought of this but I wonder if a trick to stop a sawzall would be to add plate to the outside of the safe.

Blacksmith
10-10-2011, 04:31 PM
Want to dull the teeth on a sawzall? Glue some ceramic tile inside and out. I had to demilliterize some safes in the service. they were made with multiple layers of steel and cement. Use a torch to burn through the steel which blew back on you, then chip through the cement,burn more steel, more chipping, burn, chip, IIRC they were 5 layers of steel and 4 of cement. You had to start a big hole because each layer you had less working room. The blow back actually set my fatigues on fire. Not easy being a safe cracker.

Blacksmith

PatMarlin
10-10-2011, 06:49 PM
That is a fantastic idea. Make a real mess with the cutting torch too.

alamogunr
10-13-2011, 09:55 AM
A little further information on my safe. I removed all the handguns yesterday so I could get some idea of how much space would be required to store them in the safe my son proposed to give me. I also removed the lead in the bottom to get at the holes in the bottom. The holes are ½" dia and are probably one third from the back of the safe. I am going to take the advice to enlarge the holes and use concrete anchors.

My next move was to try to slide the safe back flush in the corner so it couldn't be tipped back to get under the front edge. I had not removed the long guns, but I could not begin to move that safe. I then tried to get a pry bar under it. That didn't work either. I admit that maybe I didn't try hard enough for fear of damaging the safe or the concrete floor.

I'm going to try to get some help moving it to the corner. It only has to go approx 4" back and 4" sideways. Hopefully it will only take a couple of friends and myself to move it. There is not enough room for more than three of us.

If this post prompts more suggestions, I will consider them.

Also, I envy those who can express themselves with a minimum of words. I have never had that ability.

oneokie
10-13-2011, 12:01 PM
Just a suggestion, tilt the top of the safe away from the corner, place a piece of pipe under the safe (longer than the depth of the safe) (leave some space between the end of the pipe and the back wall) on the side that will be closest to the corner. After doing this, move the safe back the 4". Then move it to the corner, place a pry bar under the front corner of the safe and raise enough to remove the pipe roller, and lower the safe.

bootsnthejeep
10-14-2011, 04:20 PM
Well, I'll recount my story. I'd link the video of it, but I was pretty frustrated and swearing a bit. So anyway.

Parents ask me what I'd like for Christmas. They don't listen when I tell them I don't need anything, but parents are parents, so I try to think of one thing a year they can get me, usually tools. So a few years ago, I told them I'd like a gun safe. Not an expensive one, just something with a lock.

So, I get the $200-300ish Sentry Safe that Wally World was carrying that week. About 2 feet square with room for about a dozen rifles if you stack em in close and a shelf for handguns and ammo. Perfect. Had a digital keypad (battery operated) that cleverly removed to reveal a keyhole behind it, so you could unlock it with the provided skeleton key should the batteries go dead in your keypad.

So, all was fine for a few years. I hadn't been in the safe in a month or so, and was after something, punched in my code, the light turned green, and I turned the handle. but instead of turning the full 30 degrees, it only went about 15 or 20 and stopped. And the door wouldn't open. I moved the handle a few times, and after 30 seconds the lock reset and I had to keep unlocking the mechanism, but the damn handle still wouldn't fully turn and disengage the bolts. Then I started horsing on it. I figured out fast this wasn't going to work. Damn thing was busted, and holding my guns hostage.

This was in a bedroom closet in a single wide trailer, and if any of you have been in such a structure, you know how tiny THOSE are. I had a hell of a time tucking the thing in there when it was EMPTY, and the only part that was exposed was the door.

I'd given some thought in the past to filling the little secret space in the bottom of the safe with lead ingots or screwing it to the wall. NOW I was glad I didn't. I had to wrassle the thing out the closet door into the bedroom, lay it down in the middle of the floor (trying not to think about what was happening to the guns inside) and set about breaking into my own safe.

Took two days of research, prying, shimming, and drilling holes, but I finally cracked the thing open. All because apparently whatever sweatshop worker in some gawdawful communist bloc country that assembled this thing decided that ALL of the retaining nuts for the pin linkages probably weren't really necessary, and I could do without a few of them. And the flimsy white-metal laminated gears and gear plates didn't like being out of alignment one bit.

Now the thing is a really heavy cabinet. I fixed the linkages but never got around to reinstalling them, and don't know if I'd ever trust it again if I did. No locksmith was going to jimmy that thing open, the way it had malfunctioned it had to be disassembled. And I'd hate to think what I would have had to gone thru if that thing had been screwed to the floor and/or full of lead. Oye. The only person that safe successfully kept away from my guns was me, and only because I hadn't gotten ugly enough to get the torches out yet and was trying not to destroy the safe.

However. If you have the money to spring for a NICE safe?? Oh hell yes. Lag that puppy down.

I couldn't believe how (relatively) easily ONE guy with a special handtruck was wielding around my father's 800 lb monster of a gun safe when it was being delivered.

GOPHER SLAYER
10-14-2011, 06:19 PM
alomoguner, if you can get a safe with the door open for free, take it. All you have to do to get the combination is take the back off the dial and sart turning the dial. Allways turn to the left first. Watch the dial wheels as you turn the dial. When the back wheel is aligned with the lock, turn to the right. When the next to back wheel is aligned turn to the left again and so on. If your safe has four dial wheels it will of course take four numbers to open it. I have used this trick on four safes and it is simple to do. If it is for example a four number combination you will have to turn to the left four times before you turn to the right and that will take three turns, then two and finally one. I hope I haven't made this sound more difficult than it is.

alamogunr
10-14-2011, 07:42 PM
GOPHER SLAYER, Another member here has offered to help me find/set the combination if I decide to take the safe. His instructions may be the same as what you have described. I do understand what you described. It never occurred to me that the back of the dial could be accessed and removed. I appreciate both of you volunteering to help.

The only thing that would disqualify the safe for my use is that it won't hold my handguns. I am going to his place of business next week, hopefully, Monday or Tuesday to see it for the first time. If I determine that it will work for me, I'll probably bring it back. No sense in making two 300 mi round trips.

pmer
10-15-2011, 10:15 AM
GOPHER SLAYER and alamogunur, I have used that method of watching the wheels too and it works to get the locks unknown combo as well. The last wheel or the one closest to the dial is the first number of the combo. One could line up the notch to the drop arm of the inside wheel first, then write down the number on the dial that its matched to. Then go to the middle and outside wheels. Its easier if the combos are ending in zeros or fives to get the exact combo, like 45-70-30. Might help doing this with a combo that you know to get a feel for how it works.

The other way to go is with the back cover off use your finger or small screw driver to line up all the notches on the wheels and turn the whole wheel pack together to its combo change position, put the back cover on and insert the change tool and enter new combo. I like this method if I know which way the combo starts (for unknown combos) either starting left or right. Most newer safes start to the left and the really old stuff can be left or right starting. Usually starting towards the hinge.

And rember people, ALLWAYS ALLWAYS try the new combo with the locked door open.

pmer
10-15-2011, 10:42 AM
bootsnthejeep, I'm soory to admit but I was well entertained reading your post about your wally safe. Its one thing to burgal a safe not caring what it looks like afterwards and its quite another if you want to break in and use it again.

I had a call for a large commercial safe that wouldn't open. I begged and pleaded, tould it how pretty it was and she still wouldn't open. Drilled and pounded on it for 2.5 days before me and another guy finally got it open and fixed. We finaly learned where a same model safe was and was able to get measurements from that one - learned that the first attacks were only a 1/2 inch off from where we were supposed to be...

I also learned that down town, skyway connected buildings have smoke detectors in the ventilation systems too. :roll:

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/5880/kif1550.jpg

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/7451/kif1551.jpg

Ok I found some pics of that safe, I wish my gun safe looked like this on the inside. A side ways T shaped plate that locks the door (instead of round pins) and it rides on roller bearings too. The sheetmetal piece going over the lock connects to a extra pin that can fire and add tool resistant protection agaisnt break in. Can you spot the Hard Plate that kills drill bits?

Nuke Boy
10-15-2011, 01:05 PM
My safe is just under a ton. And bolted down. Better bring some friends. And tools! The guy I

bought the safe from said make your cheep safe a bait safe. Not bolted down and full of heavy

junk. He said they will take it half the time. And get nothing for all there trouble but some scrap!

Get an alarm system and put a sign out front. Most are looking for an easy kill!

Chicken Thief
10-15-2011, 02:11 PM
Yeah I have a average costing gun safe too. This is another reason for a well rounded approach to secure valuables.

I watched some perp video of a sawzall used to enter a low cost cabinet. 35isit is right, it doesn't take long.

I just thought of this but I wonder if a trick to stop a sawzall would be to add plate to the outside of the safe.

Thin layers of kevlar (chainsaw pants) will kill a saw in notime flat!

Ya'll guys with the safe in the garage, why not make a nice big tray on top and weigh it down with half a ton of lead? It will take them some time to remove 1000 bars of lead before they can work on the safe without fearing that lead bars will hit them in the head.

softpoint
10-15-2011, 05:06 PM
One thing is for sure, if you leave em out and don't have a safe they will get stolen. Safe's have saved me three times. As for the ones not in the safe, they are long gone. You may also check out a product called burglar bomb. Put as many obstacles between the scum bag's and your property as you can.

I have a Browning Platinum safe, ADT Systems alarm that is monitored, 2dogs and a couple judiciously placed Revel burglar bombs. And insurance. I don't think there is any else I can do. I did lose a few guns many years ago, so I probably have a bit more security than some folks:cbpour: