Lee 358-150 in 9mm

[mark718]

Hey Everyone,

I don't post much but have been a daily lurker ever since I started casting for my USPSA shooting a year ago. I have a question about this Lee mold and how it would perform in bulk 9mm.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=784750

My questions are:
- Can I load and fire these tumble lubed and unsized through my 9mm (CZ75)?
- Would the bullet seating have to be too deep for powder charge & chamber pressure?

I've been using Lee's 356-125 RN to good effect. Basically, I cast thousands of them at a time, tumble lube them all and fire them unsized. At the volume I shoot at, the extra sizing step is a real time commitment. Now, however, I'm thinking about going to a heavier bullet for a lighter recoil profile, and the 358-150 is the closest Lee product I can find. The diameter is larger, but I'm hoping I can sort of ignore that :razz: So what do you think?

If anyone has this mold and would be willing to sell me a sample set of unsized / unlubed bullets, I would be VERY grateful. Thanks!

[dualsport]

It looks like you might have something there. Looking at the reviews it's said it can be up to .359, which may or may not go. Only one way to find out. Many people recommend .358 in 9mm for cbs, worth a try. If it was me, I'd do some comparisons with 147 gr boolits from Lyman or I think Lee. Start out with a light load. I might just get that mold.

[mark718]

Ya, I'm comfortable shooting up to .358, but I've never tried .359 and don't know if or how that would negatively affect my chamber pressure.

I'd really like this to work out because I love Lee molds. I have a Lyman 147gr 4-cavity mold that I basically don't use. The reason is that it's heavy, and doesn't produce fast enough. I like to have two identical 6-cavity Lee molds running at the same time for maximum production speed. My concern over this 150gr Lee mold is basically the diameter and the bullet profile.

[Bwana]

Your only problem would be the throat not being long enough to seat it out far enough. I used the old 150 gr 38 Super mold that they no longer produce when I shot IDPA and for a while in IPSC when I was still using my 9mm. It is a good boolit and I wish I could get another 6 banger without paying an arm and a leg.

[theperfessor]

I have heard some folks use the Lee 140gr bullet in 9mm. It has a "pointier" nose. I haven't tried it as I have a Lyman 358430(?) which is a 133 gr SWC that drops about 138 from my alloy.

[fecmech]

Lee used to make a 1502R for the 9MM and I have the mold and have used 147 gr load data with it and no problems. I'm guessing from your post you will be loading at minimum velocity to make major power factor so I don't think you will have any pressure problems yourself. As long as you can live with the diameter the mold drops you should be ok. My 150 2R's are .693" long and I would think the 150 you're looking at would be shorter due to the more blunt nose profile so I don't think you would have anymore decreased case capacity than with the 147's. I've run my 150 at 1000 fps+ with no pressure problems.

Check and see if anyone has the RCBS 147 mold and how long that bullet is, I'll bet it's very close to your Lee 150. You can probably get the Lee info from them.

[LowPE]

I have shot this boolit in my CZ75SA, I think I used Green Dot. However, I sized it to 358. I shot it in IDPA.

I shoot the 105 grain swc 38 from lee all the time in 9 unsized -- however it is not 100% reliable -- ok for practice but not gaming. They might be ok for gaming if I chamber checked each one...but then they are real light.

You are starting to play with a lot of variables so extreme care should be used. Every gun and mould is slightly different (not counting the alloy, brass and your casting technique). You may very well be able to get away without sizing them...but be careful your margin for error is very small.

[KAS]

I'm really interested in developing a cast 9mm load for my Glock 17 with stock barrel (I know, I know). I was hoping for a lower pressure round with a heavy bullet to make IPSC minor power factor.

After reading the stickies on cast lead in 9mm, I bought a Lee 358-150-1R double cavity mold, a 38S&W spud for my Lee expander die, and slugged my barrel (.3555).

After casting a couple of boolits (air cooled and water quenched wheel weights, dropped at .359) and loading some unsized dummy rounds, I've run into problems.

Basically, the fat 1R ogive contacts the rifling all the way down to 1.045 OAL! Normally this wouldn't bother me as I'm not married to my reloading manuals, but this is a long blunt boolit.

Bullet length .640 + case length .750 = 1.390
1.390 - 1.045 (should really be 1.030) = .345

That's a lot of boolit in a small case. I was planning on loading this round with Titegroup, maybe not with so little case capacity left. Even with a 2.5 grain charge, I'm still only about .080 away from a compressed load with very fast powder.

Seating at this depth still swages the base of the boolit down to .350 for air cooled and .3555 for water quenched. The rest of the bands measure .357 after being pulled (crimped to .379 OD). I'm still willing to try the water quenched boolit as it is, just not too sure about the powder or case capacity.

My searches of the forum did turn up a few people who use this boolit for 9mm, yet none list their OAL. Others are loading very short round in the 1.100 to 1.070 range, but always with much lighter/shorter boolits and still not anywhere near 1.045 OAL.

Has anyone else had success with this boolit? What about the 358-140-TC? It looks bottom heavy too. What seating depth are other getting with heavy 9mm boolits?

Can I safely continue down this road? Should I cut my losses and get a different mold? Slower powder?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Just trying to avoid a KB here.

[mark718]

I bought the mold and found the exact same thing. I had to load the rounds way too short to get them to chamber in my barrel. I basically gave up on them and moved on from there... it was just a little too extreme for me.

I've shot about 30,000 of Lee's 125gr round nose bullet. It's not as heavy as I would have wanted it to be, but I have zero complaints about its performance.

[reloader28]

I couldnt make this RN work.
Switched to the Lee 358-125RF also and love it.

[curator]

I have the Lee 1502R gang-mould which I use for a couple of my 9mm handguns. It does drop slugs at .359 using WD-COWW +2% tin. I run the boolits through a Lee .356 push-through die soon after casting. Slugs end up .3565. I have used both liquid Alox with these but prefer LBT "blue" when pushing them fast.

[twotrees]

I have an OLD Lee 140 gr TC boolit mold. That is what I shot in IPSC, years ago,in 38 Super. To say it made major was an understatement. The Barsto barrel was the only reason I could load that High. I sized them to .356. It shot very well, but the danged gun threw cases every direction of the Compass. Even then 38 super cases were hard to get.

[BBQJOE]

I was discussing a similar load to this with an old time reloader. Here is what he said:
In "Sixguns" (1955) Elmer Keith (no lover of the 9mm, nor of autos in general) gives only one suggested load for the 9mm Luger ctg, claims it is the only anywhere near effective load and that it will function in the auto pistols.

A 160 grain SWC bullet and 3 grains of Bullseye.

My buddy sent me a few 147 gr 357's to try out a lube he made. he suggested I try this with 3.3gr of unique, seeing as that I don't own a single grain of bullseye.

He went on to add:
Interpolating between the Bullseye and the Unique loads in Lyman suggests that something like 3.3 grains of Unique should give about the same velocity at 3. gr. of Bullseye. Keith says seat the bullet deep so that only a bit of the shoulder is above the (uncrimped) case mouth and they will feed from the magazine.

[KAS]

Thanks for the replies, looks like I may have to move on. I've read of people getting 158 and 160 grainers to work in their 9's but I wouldn't feel comfortable loading that heavy and deep in high volume. Not much difference between start and max powder charge.

A 2R ogive would allow a significantly longer OAL and less seating depth to work in my short leade. The 1R has rifling marks right at the case mouth, meaning the entire straight bearing surface must be seated inside the case.

As a little experiment, I removed the bottom band and lube groove from one of my 358-150-1R boolits. It's now a two groove 125(ish, cut was rough) grainer that's .560-.565 long. It obviously still has a stubby 1R ogive, so my OAL will be the same (1.045), but it's a lighter bullet with .075-.080 extra case capacity. Add a slower powder like Unique/Universal/N330 and I think I can make it work.

The real question is; Can I have the mold milled down to drop like the above cut boolit?

[BBQJOE]

I tried loading up the bullets my friend sent. I must have misunderstood what he sent. They weighed 161 gr.
This turns out to be waaaaayyyyyyy too much bullet for 9mm.
I can't see why milling your mold wouldn't work.

[KAS]

I tried loading up the bullets my friend sent. I must have misunderstood what he sent. They weighed 161 gr.
This turns out to be waaaaayyyyyyy too much bullet for 9mm.
I can't see why milling your mold wouldn't work.

Some people seem to have success with 160's.

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/18

This guy lists a COAL of 1.040, which what my 150's had to be to chamber correctly. He doesn't mention how long the bullet is, so actual seating depth is unknown.

If I can't get 150 LRN to work, I certainly won't be trying anything heavier.

I think were was a thread on here about 158 grain bullets for 9mm. Reviews were mixed.

Edited for a typo.