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Blackwater
06-12-2005, 04:55 PM
Have any of you loaded Blue Dot in the .45 LC? Or other calibers? I've never messed with it much, except in some .38 Spec. +P applications with the 158 gr. LSWCHP's, and for that, it performed marvelously.

However, I remember along the way being warned that this powder tends to create pressure excursions in some calibers and some applications, large jumps in pressure with only small increases in charge wt.

Have any of you experienced this? I'm asking because some manuals show some pretty good performance with it in the .45 LC. The strange thing is it shows 13 gr. with anything from the 200's to 260's, and that's kinda' wierd, but stranger things do happen. I think the max for the Blackhawk/Contender listed is 15 gr. for some pretty high velocities, but I like my loads to be very predictable, and like to stay away from loads where only a little more could yield a LOT more pressure. 2400, Unique, Universal, Red Dot, and others are so darn reliable and predictable that it's hard to justify using powders such as Blue Dot. Besides, nudging right up to the point where pressure excursions COULD occur have never given me the kind of consistent results I've tended to want over time anyway.

Thanks for any info on Blue Dot in this application, or for observations of it generally. Just wanting to do some research. It's all I can do until I actually get the gun.

David R
06-12-2005, 05:12 PM
Sure I have used Blue dot in 45 LC, 44 Mag, and 45 ACP. Its a good powder. I have had no problmes with it. There are times it will give more velocity than 2400. Try it, experment with it, I think you will like it too.

I now only use 9 grains of unique in the 45 LC cause it gives me 900 fps and thats all I want. I might have to switch to WW 231 because I got 8 lbs for FREE.

Before I got my Super Redhawk in 44 mag, I was loading my 45 LC to Mag specs. 21 to 23 grains of 2400. Its a smith and I didn't want to wear it out, so I bought the ruger. Want 44? Buy one. I like the 45 LC the way it was supposed to be. Its what I shoot iron sight silhouette with. I have a scope on the 44. My smith 45 LC Model 25-5 would shoot 4 to 6 inches @ 100 yards with a scope.

StarMetal
06-12-2005, 05:43 PM
Well you're talking my favorite round. All I have to say is if you want a 44 mag buy a 454 Casual or buy the gun and shoot hot 45 LC's in it. A 44 mag will never equal a hot 45. Nine grs of Unique is my long time favorite load. Those hot loads with the 2400 you were using in your Smith are waaaaaaay over the limit for that revolver. I feel you're lucky you didn't ruin it, unless you didn't shoot alot of them. I'm glad you stop using them in that gun.

Joe

Bass Ackward
06-12-2005, 05:47 PM
Have any of you loaded Blue Dot in the .45 LC? Or other calibers?

However, I remember along the way being warned that this powder tends to create pressure excursions in some calibers and some applications, large jumps in pressure with only small increases in charge wt.



BW,

Blue Dot's only limitation as far as I'm concerned is cold weather.

But it was my favorite powder in the 45 LC for mid to high range loads. Now in 44, I use it simply for middle of the roads velocities to get better ignition than the slow stuff without the disadvantage of the top strap cutting pressures of the fast stuff.

Rrusse11
06-12-2005, 08:36 PM
BW,
Blue Dot is my favorite powder in the 357, 44Mag, and I'm working with it at the moment in 45Colt; these for light to mid-range target/plinking loads. As mentioned, loaded up in revolvers, it'll meet or exceed 2400 velocities, and more economically. Very accurate, clean burning and enough of a case full that it'd be hard to double charge a round. Just bought another 5# jug on Friday, {:o). A shop I rarely frequent had one on the shelf,,, and after checking out that my more usual supplier couldn't even get it at that price wholesale, lol, I went back and got it. $77 out the door.
Cheers,
R*2

9.3X62AL
06-12-2005, 09:53 PM
Right after Blue Dot came out, the late Bob Milek gave it quite a test drive in the 357 Magnum. He was among the first to point out that at very low temps (subzero F) that Blue Dot would give pressure spikes in the Magnum high-end applications with jacketed bullets--especially lighter ones like the 125 grain/357 critters.

I used the powder for a time in 357 and 44 Magnums while using it for high-end 12 gauge hunting loads. Herco did better work in the scatterguns, so I stopped buying Blue Dot entirely about 7-8 years ago. It did good work in the wheelers, but not enough better than Unique, 2400, or 296 to prompt me to keep buying it.

I shoot very few full-power magnum revolver loads any more.

Buckshot
06-13-2005, 01:42 AM
............I use dsome Blue Dot in the 38 Super and it did just fine, but WC820 did as well and it was way cheaper!

http://www.fototime.com/4FFDE36264BD077/standard.jpg
Back when they were $69 each, I bought a couple Spanish Gendarme carbines in 9mm Largo (Destroyer Carbines). I had one barreled to 45 ACP, which is the one pictured above.

In the process of wringing it out, I fired all manner of wild and wacky loads from it. One of the wackiest was to size the Lee 458-405F down to .452". Over 12.5grs of Blue Dot (in the 45 ACP case) the 405gr slug existed the muzzle of the 16.25" barrel at 1075 fps! It kicked, believe you me. I was using EC (Evansville Chrysler) 43 steel cases for it.

.............Buckshot

C A Plater
06-13-2005, 08:02 AM
I keep hearing warnings from folks about pressure spikes with Blue Dot but none can ever refer me to a source for the information. I use it and have not seen anything like that with the 7 pounds I've used to date.

Right now Blue Dot is my favorite .45 Colt powder. With a 270 grain Keith I've used 13.5 to 15.0 grains in my Ruger and TC with best accuracy at 14.5. At the low end the cases drop from the cylinder and clocking 1050-1100 fps from my Bisley barrel.

I've been going to 310 grain WFN as it is getting better accuracy than with the Keith style. I haven't finished development but at the 13.5 grain level the cases extracted with ease and proved to be a good starting point. No chronograph data on this load yet as most of my gun stuff has yet to be move to my new address.

I like Blue Dot for medium to medium high loads. Nicely takes over from the Unique range and take you up to the bottom of H110 territory.

Work up you own loads warily.

45 2.1
06-13-2005, 08:47 AM
I keep hearing warnings from folks about pressure spikes with Blue Dot but none can ever refer me to a source for the information. I use it and have not seen anything like that with the 7 pounds I've used to date.

Bob Milek wrote about it in some gunrag before his death. I had trouble with BlueDot when the ammo temperature went from above freezing to below freezing in a 38 Super. It took about thirty minutes in a holstered gun in freezing temperatures to become a case blowing condition. Warm weather shooting was fine.

Willbird
06-13-2005, 09:08 AM
The article I remember about cold and blue dot may well have been Bob Milek, I THINK it was handloader magazine, and as I recall they were firing bullets into deep snow and recovering them undamaged as part of the article.

Bill

lar45
06-14-2005, 02:32 AM
I tried Blue Dot in 45 colt normal loadings and it burned very dirty.

It works great in the 357 and 9mm.

Willbird
06-14-2005, 06:50 AM
I did use some ijn 44 magnum, and while not as clean as Universal Clays I would not say it was dirty..........It seemed to work well, but because of the cold weather bit I will probably not adpot it for bulk loading in that caliber.

I was a Boy Scout after all

Bill

Bass Ackward
06-14-2005, 07:23 AM
I tried Blue Dot in 45 colt normal loadings and it burned very dirty.

It works great in the 357 and 9mm.

Yep,

All powders burn cleaner with pressure. But some powders burn .... more consistently without it even though a lot of residue may be pesent. This can make loads less fussy to crimp.

Large volume cases pay the price for dirty burn first. Sometimes even when driven hard. But that is still the definition of a shotgun powder and why I like them for squib loads in the 1000-1200 fps range.

I just loaded some 800X to try in 44 Mag. I am always looking for that magical, low pressure load at my targeted velocity level to avoid cutting the top strap. While 800X is generally a little faster than I like to go, it sure is bulky enough. Trying .431, .432, .433 diameters with a couple of lubes just to see what happens.

Blackwater
06-14-2005, 09:47 PM
Now THIS is why I started coming here! Thanks for the good advice and experience. Good comments all. I think I'll be trying the Blue Dot after all. What I was looking for is a fairly "fast" load (comparatively speaking for this caliber) that'd be likely to print in line with the fixed sights, and close to a somewhat slower 200 grain load.

As stated, I have a .44, and will use it when I want magnum performance. I'm getting this gun with the 4 5/8" bbl. because it's lighter, more compact, and more "carryable" than my Super B. I absolutely LOVE my Super B, but it's just not a be-all end-all. No gun is. I want a lighter, more compact, milder shooting "carry gun," and I like the big bullets. They'll do anything the small bullets will, and a bit more.

The New Vaquero's about as close to being "just right" in size as I'm likely to get, and I like single actions for field carry. I like the fixed sights, too. Just a no-fuss, do-what-needs-to-be-done kind of pistol. Being light, I'll carry it when I may not want to carry a Super B, or the .45 Auto. I HATE chasing cases from an auto, but LOVE the .45 ACP. I think of this NV as a slightly bulkier version of the .45 auto, but with some added potential.

Many of the .45 LC loads listed in some manuals go to 25,000 psi, or 25,000 cup, and are a bit hotter than I'd want to use in the NV. I think (?) it was Brian Pearce in Handloader who opined that 22-24,000 psi. should be a good max. level for the gun, since it's got a smaller cylinder with thinner cylinder walls, but it's thicker than the Colt SAA. I don't think I'd want to shoot many loads in that range, but think I may need to push a 230 gr. bullet to maybe 20,000 or so to get the POI with a heavier bullet to print close to the lighter everyday loads with a 200.

Actually, a 200 LSWC at 1,000 fps. ought to kill the biggest deer in the woods. All it'd ask is to be well placed. I've probably field dressed well over 300 deer in my time - always liked to "autopsy" them, and got little resistance whenever I asked. I've never seen a good shot fail to stop a deer very quickly, even down to a single buckshot from a shotgun that hit where it needed to.

I figure I want a minimum of something near 1,000 fps. with the 200 grainer everyday load, so I can reach out a bit easier on the odd coyote that presents itself. Then too, I just like to reach out some, because it's no fun only shooting at things you know you can hit. Keeps me a lot sharper, too. Just wish my eyes weren't going downhill. That'll REALLY put a crimp in your shooting!

Thanks again for all the good advice. Here in Ga., it doesn't get below freezing often, and when it does, it's not usually all that far below it. I also usually carry my handgun inside my jacket, so it won't get too cold, I think. Had forgotten it was cold weather that was at least one of the warnings I'd read about.

If Blue Dot works as well in the LC as it did in those +P .38's, it'll be a darn good load. Will probably carry the heavier load when I think it's possible I'll see a pig or a gator. Big gators can require a good, heavy load. Don't want them where I'll be fishing with my grandson. They're really on the increase around here.

Thanks again. I do appreciate it.

Magnum Mike
06-29-2005, 03:44 PM
Here is another "YES" vote for Blue Dot and cast boolits!

I have been using it in everything from 357mags with jacketed and cast to reduced 444 marlin loads! I have found it to be one of the best powders with cast, thus far, as a general rule and have not experienced any "cold weather" issues.

Tom W.
06-29-2005, 11:51 PM
I use it in my Blackhawk, and it does ok, but prefer it in my .357. A safe dose of Green Dot does better for me, though, with a 255 gr g/c bullet.

Willbird
06-30-2005, 06:38 AM
As stated, I have a .44, and will use it when I want magnum performance. I'm getting this gun with the 4 5/8" bbl. because it's lighter, more compact, and more "carryable" than my Super B. I absolutely LOVE my Super B, but it's just not a be-all end-all. No gun is. I want a lighter, more compact, milder shooting "carry gun," and I like the big bullets. They'll do anything the small bullets will, and a bit more.

.

I was doing some reading on Linbaughs site, linked from www.leverguns.com, and I sort of knew this but it hammered home that the 45 colt will run RINGS around the 44 magnum, test barrels of 5" for 45 colt and 10" for 44 magnum the 45 colt was able to equal the performance of 44 magnum at 5000 psi LESS pressure. Lots of info there but what it boiled down to is that a ruger 45 colt cyl. is 80% as strong as a 44 magnum one, the 45 colt cyl he tested failed in the 60,000 psi range. This is for the blackhawk. As I recall the fail point on a 44 magnum cyl was 80,000. The 45 colt has 5 grains more boiler room, and a larger expansion ratio. Going with industry standard practice of making things twice as strong as they need be that gives us working pressure in a 45 colt ruger single action of 30,000 psi.

So for me...when I want a 44 magnum (I have one) I will use a 45 colt hehe....more poop, less strain on the gun.

Bill

Willbird
06-30-2005, 09:10 AM
http://www.linebaughcustom.com/Default.aspx?tabid=113

This is even more amazing reading, the 45 colt gets more horsepower out of a Smith and Wesson N frame than 44 magnum, and is easier on the gun at 32,000 psi than the 44 magnum.

One man's opinion I will admit but he stands behind it.

Bill

shooter2
06-30-2005, 09:42 AM
I just peaked at my records for Blue dot in the .45 Colt. Mine is a Ruger BH Convertible with the 4 5/8" barrel. Blue Dot at 13.0 grains and the Lyman 454424, RCBS 45-230-CM, and RCBS 45-270-SWC all turn in about three inches at 25 yards with anything from 9 to 16 shots. I think it's a bit dirty, but like the way it shoots. However, what works for me may not for you. That said, I am going to mild loads for the Colt and leaving magnum loads for the .44 Reminton Magnum. I think my loads with Blue Dot are a good medium. FWIW...

FAsmus
06-30-2005, 12:59 PM
Have any of you loaded Blue Dot in the .45 LC? Or other calibers?

Blackwater,

Like others on this thread I have used Blue Dot in the 45 LC with outstanding success.

My load is unusual in that I tried using inert cerial filler in my load of 12 grains BD under the standard 250 grain 45LC Lyman 452190. I measure 5 grains of Hominy Grits on top of the Blue Dot and then seat the bullet. This combination provides light compression, making it impossible for the two to mix during transport and handling.

Peformance is outstanding: Powerful, consitent and the grits scrub out any trace of leading as is sometimes found in my Ruger New Blackhawk with full-power loads.

Good morning,
Forrest

PS My loading data is, of course, only provided for consideration and not reccomended for testing by me or anyone else.

Rrusse11
06-30-2005, 09:01 PM
http://www.linebaughcustom.com/Default.aspx?tabid=113

This is even more amazing reading, the 45 colt gets more horsepower out of a Smith and Wesson N frame than 44 magnum, and is easier on the gun at 32,000 psi than the 44 magnum.

One man's opinion I will admit but he stands behind it.

Bill

Bill,
I do believe it, incredible that a mere .020" increase in bore diameter makes such a difference, but my limited experience with the 45cal in my Marlin 1894 452Mag has changed my opinion of the caliber completely.
I just got a box of the new 460S&WMagnum brass in the mail (Colt case lengthened to 1.790"), just for grins; I don't want a handgun in the cartridge, but jeeez, it'd be cool in a 336Marlin action! Yeah yeah, I hear the 45/70 guys rumbling,,,,, what's the point? To use all the 45Colt moulds I'm gettin' , of course! {:o). And without the cutouts in the receiver side to accomadate that big-ass rim. Lol, another mad scheme takes shape,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.
Cheers,
R*2

Herb in Pa
06-30-2005, 09:05 PM
I use 21 grains of Blue Dot to propel a 267 Grain Hoch cast bullet in my 375 H&H.