How do you make a knife from an old file?

[44minimum]

Is there a step by step tutorial somewhere? Never done this sort of thing before but have watched quite a few videos. It seems like first you have to get it red hot to remove the temper then you can start grinding on it and shaping it the way you want. Then you have to put the temper back into it. Is that the way it works? And I would like to shape it into sort of a kukhri type blade, any idea how I could bend it down like that?

[Tom W.]

The first step is to take a torch and heat it enough to "blue" it. You'll see the band progress down the file as you go. This will also make the file malleable, rather than brittle. Grind away anything that doesn't look like a knife. I know that sounds trite, but after you get started you'll know what I mean. I had access to a knife grinder at the sawmill, so I could clamp the file into the holder, keep it wet with a water soluable oil and water mixture, and grind one side at a time until I got the bevel that I was looking for. I heated the blade up , but not red hot, and dropped it into some used cutting oil. The tang of the file was used for the handle, and I found it was easier to get the scales, carve them out and use epoxy to hold the tang and the scales together.

[725]

Everything Tom W said but I'd add my $0.02 to say leave the tang soft (don't re-temper). If you use a long file, you can toss the rat tail handle and use the base of the file for a full tang suitable for scales. Here's how I do it: Figure out where the scales will be applied, drill holes for the rivits (this is why you want a non-tempered tang). Shape the general design of the scales and apply one side with epoxy. Come back when hardened and drill a sub-dimension hole through the fixed scale. Glue on the second scale and drill through the fist scale with a rivit sized bit. Perfect alignment. Counter bore a tiny crater on the face of the scales and set your rivits. Grind it all to the finished grip desired. I'd grind the blade profile and not try to bend it. ps Grind it before you re-temper or apply scales. Hey! -- All that for $0.02 (and what it's worth)

[mtnman31]

The same way you make a prison shank out of a toothbrush, rub it back and forth on the concrete floor until you get it the shape you want. Dont forget the tape to make a proper handle. :)

[44minimum]

Thanks for the information guys. That will give me a starting point at least. The rest I can figure out on my own through trial and error. Sometimes that is the best way any ways.. Not too long ago I visited smoky mountain knife works and bought a few blade blanks, laminated wood and horn for the handles, and Brass pins for the bolsters. I just finished completing the first knife and made a leather sheath from scratch for it. Really enjoyed it and would like to construct a knife totally from scratch. Well, from a file anyway. I might start with a circular saw blade though.

[mstarling]

A good file is going to be glass hard. Before you grind the blade, heat it to 400F for 30 minutes let it cool. Do that again.

Make a pile of wet sand (or heat sink paste) and bury the part of the file you're going to grind but leave the tang exposed. Heat it very hot and allow it to cood slowly. Keep the to be blade section cool. This will anneal the tang and probably the part that will become the ricasso.

Grind the blade keeping it cool ... do not let it go blue!

Should give you a soft tang and a blade with a through hardness of about RC 58. If it is a BIG knife heat and cool it to 400 atleast 4 times. Should be down to abt RC 55.

Better to use known material (www.admiralsteel,com) like 5160 ground and finished soft and then heat treat it to the right hardness. Automotive leaf springs (sometimes called OCS for Old CHevy Spring) can also be a source of 5160 like material.

Saw blades used to be a pretty good place to start ... L6. Not always true today. Can be a lot of alloys which makes heat treating something of a learned experience. Way better to start with a known material.

(Yes ... I am a knife maker and do my own heat treating in computer controlled molten salt pots.)

[Tom-ADC]

I used this link to get started knife making my first attempts were just adding handles to finished blade a.k.a. a kit. Now working on a full tang knife from 1095 high speed steel.
Can't help with the file but you are going to need to anneal it first to get it soft enough to work on. Good luck!
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264909

[KCSO]

First step is to find out WHAT kind of steel the file is made of. Somewhere I have a chart for this. THEN when you know if it is 5156, 1095 ect you can proceed to draw the temper and forge or grind the blade. If you don't know what you are starting with you won't know how to get a proper temper.

[44minimum]

Sounds like good information. The only thing I know about the files I have is that my dad has had them for about 50 years. There is a chart for finding out what kind of steel they're made of?

[Artful]

I have a power hacksaw blade that I was going to use the plans from Mother Earth News to make a nice knife out of, I might just get to working on that after I get a little casting out of the way.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Guys: did this professionally for 2 years from 84-86. If you ask why I stopped? It's simple,,, There's no money in it!

First: files are made from 1095 steel. It is NOT hi-speed steel. and if you get it too hot (turns blue)you just ruined the heat treat, and must start over..

You need to grind it as is. just DONOT get it so hot you can't hold on to it. Quench in water frequently. As soon as it turns blue you ruined it and it must be reheat treated which is more difficult than just heating it up until it glows some red color and then dropping it in water. There is a specific temperature to take it to, and "soak it" at for a specific amount of time, and then a specific cooling rate to achieve hardness. Then for a knife, it must be tempered or pulled back to about 54-56 Rc. If left full hardness it is somewhat brittle and hard to sharpen, but in the case of the first timer it is best left hard. You can make up for brittleness by making the knife thicker, and not using it for a prybar!

If you work it hard and don't get it too hot it will be just fine, you just have to take your time.

Art: the first knife I made in 1974 was made from a Power Hack Saw blade. It was a NIcholson full Hi- speed blade off our Peerless hacksaw at the Edison Mohave Steam Plant in Laughlin NV. It took along time to do but when done would cut thru anything.

Just make sure your blade is hispeed steel all the way thru . Most just have the teeth as high speed now. Don't worry about getting it hot as the whole point of hispeed steel is that it doesn't anneal when you get it hot. Even Red Hot! those blades also make THE best gasket scrapers known to man,. I have several and I ain't givin' them up!

In order to anneal Hi-Speed steel (M2) you must take it thru the hardening temp of 21-2200F and then reduce the temp in the furnace 100F every hour for 24 hours. Just getting it red hot does nothing. That's why they make lathe tools out of it. They get hot and you can't have them getting soft in the middle of a cut

There is a guy by the name of ANZA who makes and sells file knives at the Ventura and other Socal gun shows. he's been doing it for many years. And if you google him you can probably find out everything you need to know about making a file knife.

A better way to go, is to get yourself a piece of O1 tool steel from local industrial supply, grind the blade do the desired shape and bevel and then heat it with a torch until it is cherry red, and then quench it in a bucket of motor oil. Then take it in a put it in the oven at 500F for about 1 hour and then let it air cool, Twice!

This should yeild a blade that is 54-58 Rc. This is also how Bob Loveless did it on his first knife. Any of his knives are worth $1200-1500 any day of the week.

You do all final finish and polish when the blade is hard. make sure you drill you handle holes first. Drills are made from Hispeed steel and they won't cut hardened O1.

The one in the pic was made in 1984 for ME by ME and the blade is made of 154CM similar to D2 tool steel, and is at 62 Rc. It has been sharpened once in 27 years, and at one time I was using it as a deburring scraper on my lathe! It took me two evenings in front of the TV to get it to shave, now it's just 'sharp" not razor sharp.

Biggest problem with making knives is finding someone to make the sheaths for a reasonable price. Most guys I was involved with wanted as much for the sheath as I could get for the knife, and then the cuistomer always wants something different than what you've got.

I made about 200 knives during that 84-86 time frame and sold them at the Ventura gun show mostly. I make one now and again for special people and/or special occasions.

My Logo surprisingly is,,,, W.R.Buchanan Ventura CA.

Randy

[Artful]

Like the big one - Now, that's a knife.

the MEN Copperhead survival knife
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Do-It-Yourself/1983-09-01/The-Anyone-Can-Make-It-Copperhead-Survival-Knife.aspx
design included you making your own sheath out of copper tubing so I don't have to worry about that - I just need to buy an extra grinding wheel and get off my butt - temp's starting to drop - wind and rain storm came thru and I have signed up for a Motorcycle safety course or I'd be casting tomorrow.

[Link23]

type in Greenpetes knife making on youtube, he has an excellent 2 part series on it

[W.R.Buchanan]

art: that was one knife I could never sell? the blade is 6 1/2" long and the handle is made of Iron Wood with red liners, it also has a tapered tang. None of this stuff will show in a picture. In person it is a pretty nice looking knife.

It has been my "head board" knife for 20 years.

Randy

[Multigunner]

The old style chainsaw bar, the type made from a single piece of steel rather than built up in three layers welded together, is excellent steel for a Kukri type blade and many other unusual blade designs.
You can sometimes find these disgarded due to part of the blade track being worn or broken away. Ask around , tree trimers and guys who sell fire wood probably have a few of these laying around. The steel is already tempered well enough for a knife blade, yet can be shaped with a file and drilled for rivets.

[Multigunner]

I made a couple of knives from a power hacksaw blade cut in half.
These were a bit thin for my purposes but were as thick as filet knives and fairly tough though they could be broken with abuse such as using them as throwing knives.
I left the saw teeth intact on one edge for use in cutting branches. The sharpened edge could be stropped to straight razor sharpness , and the edge was very durable, capable of whittling a mild steel bolt.

My older brother once made some knives from some sort of blades from an industrial wood working machine. These blades were just the right size and thickness for a medium small hunters belt knife and super hard.

[Artful]

I'll bet he used joiner blades - I have a couple of those too - was told had to heat up and quench to work them.

[Tom W.]

My first attempt was with a power hacksaw blade, and scales salvaged from an old cheap destroyed knife. It came out pretty good. I had access at one time to pieces of ruined sawmill band saw blades, most were 36 feet long and 8-10 " wide. I didn't care for them, but some of the Mexicans made really nice machetes from them. The Roundsaw blades that I had were .090 thick, with a large arbor hole, and were difficult to cut and shape. I found it was better to just go buy a knife rather than make one, but then again, my time was limited, and I couldn't stay too long after work and putter in the saw shop..

[W.R.Buchanan]

Usually those sawmill band saw blades were made from L1 tool steel. They make an acceptable knife.

There is a book on making knives by David Boye he was an Oregon hippy type and he used Band Saw blades form a saw mill up there when he got started. He made mostly kichen knives. He cut them out of the saw blade with a torch!

Randy

[Frank46]

I have a couple john deere tractor blades that are good for making into knives. Will have to heat them up first so as to take out the bends they put in them. The blades are close to 3/16" thick. Then start cutting or grinding anything that does not look like you want. Frank

[Ragnarok]

I gave a guy a damaged brake disc from a 4440 JD tractor...he cut it in half and made about the coolest battle-axe I've ever seen!

hand forged and hardened...he somehow heated up and folded the halves back together into one chunk with a handle hole inbetween and produced a double-bitted 'Conan' style..cut your head off axe that makes your hair stand on end just looking at it!

[Artful]

I gave a guy a damaged brake disc from a 4440 JD tractor...he cut it in half and made about the coolest battle-axe I've ever seen!

hand forged and hardened...he somehow heated up and folded the halves back together into one chunk with a handle hole inbetween and produced a double-bitted 'Conan' style..cut your head off axe that makes your hair stand on end just looking at it!

http://www.gonaads.osnn.net/this_thread_is_useless_without_pics.gif

[Tom W.]

Usually those sawmill band saw blades were made from L1 tool steel. They make an acceptable knife.

There is a book on making knives by David Boye he was an Oregon hippy type and he used Band Saw blades form a saw mill up there when he got started. He made mostly kichen knives. He cut them out of the saw blade with a torch!

Randy













When we used a cutting torch you found out really fast what "tension" in a saw was... and they usually ended up looking like crinkle cut french fries...[smilie=1:


We had this device we called "jaws" that sliced the wrecked bands after we got them off of the bandmill and out of the log..

[Ragnarok]

http://www.gonaads.osnn.net/this_thread_is_useless_without_pics.gif

I know..I know!