What happened to using Lee as a custom mold maker?

[jonk]

While I have been very happy with the work that NOE does, I haven't seen any work done by Lee on a custom group buy mold in a while. Any ideas why? They are a board sponsor and I always found their 6 cavity molds to be the cat's meow. Depending on their schedule, sometimes they are faster, sometimes NOE is.

I have something in mind for a group buy, I just don't want to go with one company over another unless there is a reason.

[94Doug]

I totally agree, I just broke out my 311041pb mould, which I think was never used. It worked like a charm, and made some very nice boolits in a hurry. I certainly would not say no to a Lee buy again....I did see a few that were done by individuals lately, and they were actually done in a very short time. I think the bad exeperiences we had along with the period of time when a 2 year wait became the norm had a bad effect.

Doug

[onondaga]

Our member Ranchdog seems to be doing fine with his business and Lee makes custom molds for him. I just got the RD-CTL-460-350 six cavity mold and I am very happy with it.

Gary

[Char-Gar]

I was Honcho on 4 group buys from Lee. I really didn't have any problem with Lee, except their + or - tolerances on their products were quite broad. It was common to get molds that were .002 over or under specs. To Lee's credit, they stated their tolerances up front and if they went over them they ran the order again.

However, lots of folks got spun up over Lee's loosey goosey products and the complaint factor was very very high. It made life difficult for folks who Honchoed the deals.

We tried a group buy from NEI. Most folks were also unhappy with that, although my mold from that buy was spot on for specs and has served me very well.

A new crop of custom mold makers came on the scene and they could turn out a better product with much better tolerances. The price was of course higher, but those tight specs cost money.

I felt the Lee group buy molds were a good buy for the money, but they are far inferior in terms of quality from what is being made by other makers.

That is just a little history lesson for those who are new to this stuff.

[kelbro]

Ranch Dog does well with them. He must impose tighter tolerances on them.

[Catshooter]

Their tolerances are their tolerances, Ranch Dog's sucess or not. Good on him.

I ran over a dozen Lee group buys. They got most of them right. The deal killer for me was when Obama showed up as a presidential candidate Lee's lead time went from two or three months to over a year.

I had three buys in with them when this started. All they ever told me about when the moulds would actually be coming were lies. They never once told me the truth.

This condition lasted for almost three years, and I've never gone back. If they'd've leveled with me I'd be fine with them, as it was, not so much.

Could all be different now though and probably is.


Cat

[selmerfan]

If you were ever in on Ranch Dog's group buys for molds, I recall that he spec'd a certain number of them and cast with them to make sure they were within HIS tolerances. I have a couple of his 6 cavity molds and they're perfect.

[leadman]

Ranch Dog IIRC was out of business for awhile due to the extended wait times at Lee. also the quality of the molds was not good. Even the production molds were not good during this time.
I bought one of the Makarov group buy molds out of the batch that the cavities were off-center and didn't want to drop the bullets. Lee remade them and mine was better but still not like it should be.
I think the quality has gotten better with the Lee molds since then.

[Springfield]

I just received my LEE group buy honchoed by Hhappy7, for a 165 grain 45 bullet. The quality of the mould looks much better than what I received a couple of years ago, although even the moulds with lots of chips in them worked fine for me once cleaned. I noticed that it was mostly the smaller bore rifle guys who complained the most, not so much for pistol guys. I'll find out in an hour or so how the mould casts. It took less than 6 weeks for LEE to do this last GB.

[TXGunNut]

I think the quality has gotten better with the Lee molds since then. -Leadman

Thanks for the tips, guys. Must be a bummer to market a company's products to friends and have the company ***** the deal for you, Chargar. That's just wrong. From what I've been reading around here I must be lucky or have good timing. Only had one minor issue w/ a Lee mould so far, operator error a strong possibility. Lyman molds have been excellent. All my moulds drop at or just over the correct diameter with the alloy I want to cast with. Not saying they're perfect but with the help of a few good posts from folks around here they'll be dropping excellent boolits in no time.
Now if somebody would just send me the magic boolit mould for my .45-90....

[hunter64]

Their tolerances are their tolerances, Ranch Dog's sucess or not. Good on him.

I ran over a dozen Lee group buys. They got most of them right. The deal killer for me was when Obama showed up as a presidential candidate Lee's lead time went from two or three months to over a year.

I had three buys in with them when this started. All they ever told me about when the moulds would actually be coming were lies. They never once told me the truth.

This condition lasted for almost three years, and I've never gone back. If they'd've leveled with me I'd be fine with them, as it was, not so much.

Could all be different now though and probably is.


Cat

It was actually about 2 years before Obama showed up that problems at Lee were arising. I also was a honcho on two group buys and it was nothing but lies from day one. I waited 4 months and called Lee and was told a lie, any day now. 2 months would pass and nothing, people breathing down my throat and another lie from lee when I called.

1 year passed and I finally got the molds and they were wrong. Sent them back and it was another 6 weeks before I got new molds. Had to send 10 of the 30 back and wait another 4 weeks for the replacements.

Lots of headaches and worry for a honcho at that time and then a couple of custom mold makers showed up that would actually build a better product on spec and on time. Yes they charge a bit more money but you get a better product that is correct.

So we went from waiting 1 year - 18 months for a product that might be good for about 65-70 bucks or use a custom mold maker for 30 bucks more and get the product in 3 months max and it is perfect.

I reasoned that if you are really hard up for cash and can't spend the extra 30 bucks then don't take the kids to McDonald's once and there you just saved the difference. We only have so many days on this earth and wasn't going to waist them worrying about a group buy from lee.

Lee might have cleaned there act up and actually hired a machinist that new what a bullet looks like but for me I will stick with the custom boys thank you.

[Char-Gar]

It is just my opinion, but I think we created most of the problems at Lee. Before we jumped into the custom Lee mold with both feet, Lee didn't do much custom work. When we hit them with group buy after group buy, they just were not prepared to deal with that volume of work. They didn't have the machinery or personnel who could produce what was orders in a timely and accurate manner.

In the due course of business, they acquired new machinery for the task and things seem to have smoothed out. I have no doubt that Ranch Dog molds are of a higher quality than the ones we saw a few years back.

I never had Lee tell me any lies. When I sent in an order (one for almost 100 six cavity molds), I waited a month or two before calling them to ask for a delivery date. They checked with the shop and gave me a delivery date that was accurate all four times. I never called them back to bug them or inquire. I just waited until they said they would be delivered and then they showed up on time. Just as Lee was not prepared to handle the huge quality of custom mold orders we threw at them, they were also not prepared to deal with that many custom mold customers.

WE had lots of impatience mold purchasers who would bug the Honcho who would in in turn bug Lee. I told the ones who ordered the molds up front not to bug me and said it with a snarl. That seemed to work for me for the most part. I had a couple of guys try it, but they were told where to go with their lack of patience. I was not about to allow a couple of guys hopping up and down with impatience to mess up my life.

I am not trying to offer excused for Lee, just give the probably explaination as I knew and experienced it.

[Springfield]

I also honcho'd 3 GB's from LEE, one of them during the LOONG waiting era. All turned out fine, just had to be patient. I now also have moulds from MIhec, NOE and Accurate molds. They were worth every penny, but I still prefer LEE 6 cavities for most my volume work. It's hard to beat 2- 6 cavs running tandem, plus they tend to be quite a bit cheaper. So for cowboy shooting or plinking bullets the LEE's are fine. If you are more into precision shooting, go with NOE or Mihec, Accurate or some of the other quality mould makers.

[94Doug]

Here is a photo of the Lee 311041pb that we did a while back. It measures .312-.3125 on all the bands. I think it turned out pretty good. Not that I'm saying anything bad about the new makers. Their quality is better, etc... but this was pretty good, and, well, what Springfield said.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=442&pictureid=4260

[rockrat]

That 31141 pb is one mould I have regretted not ordering

[94Doug]

Well, it looks like NOE is running the 31141 again, so a pb mould is an option.

Doug

[MikeS]

I also honcho'd 3 GB's from LEE, one of them during the LOONG waiting era. All turned out fine, just had to be patient. I now also have moulds from MIhec, NOE and Accurate molds. They were worth every penny, but I still prefer LEE 6 cavities for most my volume work. It's hard to beat 2- 6 cavs running tandem, plus they tend to be quite a bit cheaper. So for cowboy shooting or plinking bullets the LEE's are fine. If you are more into precision shooting, go with NOE or Mihec, Accurate or some of the other quality mould makers.

Mihec used to make aluminum 6 cavity moulds that looked just like Lee moulds. Does Miha still make them? I haven't seen a group buy for any of his 6 cavity moulds, but I would imagine having the advantages of a light weight 6 cavity mould, but with the Mihec precision would really be something!

That brings up an interesting question, I have 2 Mihec #68 clone brass 4 cavity moulds, and they cast a nicer looking boolit IMO than either the Lee 2 cavity mould I had, or the SAECO 4 cavity mould that I have. Do the Mihec aluminum moulds cast as nice a boolit as his brass ones do? I guess I should specify what I mean by better looking. On the Mihec moulds the surface of the nose of the boolit is smooth and shiny, just like the driving bands are after sizing, with no evidence of tool marks anywhere, but the Lee & SAECO moulds all have a rougher finish to the 'as cast' surfaces of the boolit. How much of that surface quality is due to the higher quality machining, and how much is due to the choice of mould material?

[warf73]

I've honchoed 6 or so group buys and the last one was a deal breaker for me. Wasn't quality of the molds but the lead time of 14 months from the time they got the money till I recieved the molds(it might had been less was over a year).

So lets do a little math for a group buy threw Lee (and most others also).

1. Put the idea out there on a boolit design, then mule over the specs till there is a consencis.
2. Once the boolit design is settled on getting people pumped up and wanting ( you need 25 mold to wave the set up fee) a mold.

At this point it has taken a 2 week to a month to get to number 3.

3. Start a group buy for said boolit design, most group buys last 1 month or till you get 25 molds ordered which can take 3 months. Most of my GB's ran 2 months some 3 months.
4. Send boolit design blue prints with money to Lee, then Lee sends you a sheet you have to sign saying they will try to make the mold to your specs. (This process takes almost 2 weeks)
5. You call Lee within 2 weeks after you sent in your signed Lee waver form to make sure they got it and your on the build list and they will tell you then what the lead time is. As stated before my last one was 14 months.
6. Honcho gets the molds in makes sure there in spec and send them out to you.



Lets add it up

Numbers 1~2 is 2 weeks
Number 3 is 2 months
Numbers 4~5 is 14 months 3 weeks
Number 6 is 1 week
total time aprox 16 months from the idea being posted till you get to pour alloy into the mold.
The Lee lead time is what did it in for honchos and buyers for GB’s threw them.

This is just my view of it and why I’ve not messed with it any more.

[alamogunr]

Mihec used to make aluminum 6 cavity moulds that looked just like Lee moulds. Does Miha still make them? I haven't seen a group buy for any of his 6 cavity moulds, but I would imagine having the advantages of a light weight 6 cavity mould, but with the Mihec precision would really be something!

That brings up an interesting question, I have 2 Mihec #68 clone brass 4 cavity moulds, and they cast a nicer looking boolit IMO than either the Lee 2 cavity mould I had, or the SAECO 4 cavity mould that I have. Do the Mihec aluminum moulds cast as nice a boolit as his brass ones do? I guess I should specify what I mean by better looking. On the Mihec moulds the surface of the nose of the boolit is smooth and shiny, just like the driving bands are after sizing, with no evidence of tool marks anywhere, but the Lee & SAECO moulds all have a rougher finish to the 'as cast' surfaces of the boolit. How much of that surface quality is due to the higher quality machining, and how much is due to the choice of mould material?

I have a Mihec #68 clone in aluminum blocks. My recollection is that he had some trouble with the blocks warping or something. My copy did not close fully and you could see daylight when holding the closed mold up to the light. I tried baking in in a toaster oven at approx. 350ºF for a couple of hours. About the only result I could detect was that it also baked the paint on the small C clamp I used to close the gap in the mold. I don't remember why I used that particular temp and time. I know some here returned their molds to Miha for replacement. I chose not to and I use the mold for plinking rounds. That may be why he doesn't offer aluminum. I too have a couple of his brass #68's. I can produce as many boolets with them as with an aluminum 6 cavity. I apologize for running everything together. For some reason I can't separate paragraphs.