Trerrible day here today

[1911sw45]

At 5:00 this morning my daughter and I was trying to load 2 hogs to take to the butcher this morning. First tried to load them with a ramp on the back of the pickup. So after trying for 30 mins I gave up. So we hooked up to the 2 horse trailer. Should of done that first, but I dont like pulling the trailer eats too much gas. Get it backed in and plywood put up on one side to block it off. So here we go got them out of the hog house in to the shed side. They tore down the plywood. Get them back up and put the plywood back up. Start driving them the best we could, then they hit the ground and locked up.

By now time is running out to get them to the butcher on time. Trying to make them go I started using my cutting stick and got the smaller barrow going and loaded. Now to the 600lb barrow. He would not budge no matter how I was tapping him with the cutting stick. Anger start to show on me. Tapping turned in to smacking into hitting. Still no go, frustrated with anger I laid one good hit just behind his shoulder and broke his back.

I should have know better. So here I have an 600lb hog with a broken back. So I had to get going to get to the butcher on time. Had no way of loading a 600lb hog that cant walk. So I had to dispatch him on the spot, had no time to bleed him or work him up, out of time. So I got 600lbs of dead hog for nothing but coyote dinner now. Just because of frustration and anger and not leaving enough time to do the job.

In hind sight I should have loaded them last night on the trailer in the first place. This would not have happened. I forgot about hogs raised on concrete locks up tight when they touch the ground. That was my fault. So now I am out the cost of the hog, feed, and all that meat. To those that might say something about dragging him. I got a bad back that I can't lift over 20lbs. So lifting or pulling him was out of the question.

Adam

[birdadly]

I have no idea of the cost that you are out as I'm a city-boy, but I'm sorry it went down the way it did. My boss actually used to raise pigs so I'm sure he would feel for you. 600lbs sounds HUGE to me for a pig. I'm curious of the age of pig that size.

Live and learn? That's the only positive thing I can think to say, and that's as good as a kick in the butt so i shouldn't even say that! Sorry man. -Brad

[Finster101]

Haven't been pushed quite that far yet, but when I was a kid living on the farm in Russell Springs, KY I sure used to get frustrated at the critters. Needing patience sometimes is an understatement. Sorry for the loss. Would have been good loins and hams and a bunch of sausage.

[rockrat]

Sorry to hear about that. All that time and effort gone.

Friend had a few cattle when we were alot younger. Had one that wouldn't go in the squeeze chute for anything, for shots, and she was big. Told friend to hold his ears and put a 357 round in the ground about 2 ft behind her. She ran in the chute pretty quick and didn't have any more problems with her again.

[para45lda]

That's a real shame. Maybe could have drug him with the truck to hang him in a tree after field dressing. May be too late now depending on the weather.

Wes

[woody1]

Doesn't help any now, but we always trained our hogs to load as they were being raised. Regards, Woody

[Bloodman14]

Lay a trail of Oreo cookies leading to the trailer; worked every time for us! Sorry your frustration got the better of you, it happens to most of us.

[bearcove]

Put up a tripod over where he lays and hoist him up. Start a cutting.

[lavenatti]

I'm sorry, I don't feel any of the pity others are showing for.

Slaughtering an animal for food is necessary and part of life, cruelty isn't. You lost your temper due to your own poor planning and beat an animal until you broke its back.

[ErikO]

If 'yotes have a price on 'em in your area, you could recoup a bit with their hides. Sorry to hear about the loss, that's a lot of backstrap that won't go to the table. :(

Next time things get behind schedule, think about the 400+ lbs of lost pork. Hopefully that will help.

[Bret4207]

I can feel your pain. Livestock can be a real bear to work with. I've been hurt pretty good by them when they decided what I wanted to do wasn't what they wanted to do. As far as the hog goes, as every old time farmer I've ever met says, "These things happen..."

[montana_charlie]

I would be real curious to see the 'cutting stick' that is stout enough to break a hog's back when swung by a cripple who can't lift over twenty pounds.

CM

[bearcove]

I would be real curious to see the 'cutting stick' that is stout enough to break a hog's back when swung by a cripple who can't lift over twenty pounds.

CM

Laugh my a$$ off! I recon if you can kill it with a stick, you're man enough to cut it up.:kidding:

[Charlie Two Tracks]

I used to haul hogs for a living. I hated that job! Next time, hit them on the top of the snout. Kind of gets their attention.
Long story here: When I first started hauling hogs, the boss went with me to load and we went to a small hog buyer and had to load three boars to go to Chicago with other hogs. As the boar would come out of his pen, the boss used a pick handle and hit the boar on the top of his snout so had that it broke the boars nose. He did this to each one and I thought he was psycho or something. He said it was so they wouldn't fight....... A few days later I went by myself and started to load some boars. As the first one came out of his pen , I just kind of hit him some on the nose and then I went to the next pen, and as the boar came out, I did the same................ THEN ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE! The boars began fighting and I was in a small area with them. One boar hooked the other on the hind quarter with his tusk and tore it open over a foot long and quite deep. I finally got them seperated and commenced to break the top of their noses............ Just the way it has to be. Not pretty but they will kill eachother if you don't.

[1911sw45]

The barrow was about 7 months old. As for animal cruelty I can tell you have never raised any hog what so ever. The cutting stick is 4 foot long tapers from 1" to 5/8" fiberglass. When a hog grows as fast as they do when your dumping feed 100lbs of 24percent feed to the every day for 4 hogs it really don't take much for them to break their backs. I could not butcher the hog because I did not have the time to do it. Your talking 350 to 400lbs+ of meat, so yes it was very costly. Just say 2.00 avg = 700.00 + worth of meat if you went to the store, not counting the feed and time. I could have let him be after his back broke and see if would have healed, like I have seen many old timers do, but I was not going to let the hog suffer to see if it would have gotten better.

I am and was not looking for people to feel sorry for me what so ever. I was just letting my feelings go this morning on what had happened and my experience. Only I am the blame. Have I learned from this, yes I have. I still have a hard time learning what I can't do any more and that is what sucks.

Adam

[Rockydog]

Deleted my first 2 page reply. I'll limit it to this.

As a former hog farmer and holder of a degree in Swine Management my disgust has no bounds.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Years back we had a swine producing operation. Frustration is just another word for attempting to load a shipment of 30 swine that are all in the 200 lb. market weight range. The "cutting stick" we had at hand was a shovel handle that the blade was broken off from. We never injured our stock with broken noses or any other body parts. Shelled corn on the load chute helped lure them into the stock truck. A trick we learned from a very old farmer to aid in loading problem swine was to put a 5 gal. plastic pail over their head and steer them with their tail. If they can`t see what they are afraid of they are easier to load. We used this method on swine up to and including fully grown brood sows.Robert

[metweezer]

Adam, I really feel for you. I am sorry for your misfortune. I know nothing about farming but I can understand what a loss of $700 means. Hopefully it was an expensive lesson that you have learned and will not repeat. Best Regards, Steve

[Triggerhappy]

Can't imagine how hard you'd have to hit a 600lb pig to break it's back, but too hard obviously.

We always just put buckets over their heads, you can push them anywhere.

[gew98]

Last time I helped a neighbor with his hogs... he put a pillow case over their heads... and I put my lug all with a strap around their neck and walk-dragged them - resistant walking - right into the truck bed. The hood made a load of difference for sure and the lug all was like insurance.

[rtracy2001]

not trying to one-up you but your day did remind me of a similar day long ago. Grandad used to have 2 milk cows, Daisy, a mix breed that looked like a hereford-holstien-angus cross, and a yellow Jersey or Gurnsey or something like that (I was 7) whose only name (that I can type on this family friendly site) was "the Stuborn one" Grandad had them trained to walk into the barn for milking whenever he called for them. They would walk into the barn door, go to their respective stall and my brother or I would lock the stanchon.

One day The yellow one learned a new trick. it would come up to the barn, get half way through the door, then turn arround and bolt to the far end of the pasture (1/2 mile or so) and she souldn't come back unless driven. Well by the third attempt grandad was mad (having a bum leg and running 3 miles will do that to a person). His "cutting stick" as you folks call it was a broken off wooden fencepost about 2' long that he picked up out of convenience after the second bolt. Well on try number 4 he gave the cow a smak in the rump with that stick, and all seemed well, the cow went into the barn headded for its stall. Then it changed its mind, turned tail and nearly trampled grandad. Out of frustration grandad piched the stick at the cow. He didn't aim, but if he had it would have been one heck of a shot. It hit the cow right in the back of the head and dropped it dead. Grandad hosted it and buchered it in the barnyard with dad's help. Well even in death that cow was a pain. It was some of the toughest meat we had ever had.

We never had another yellow cow again.

[maglvr]

This disgusting story has no place on this or any other forum, with the possible exception of a animal abuse forum!
Where sadly, I am sure it is bound to show up sooner or later.
IMHO your loss was quite justified!

[Bret4207]

Things happen, give it a break huh?

[krag35]

"As for animal cruelty I can tell you have never raised any hog what so ever. The cutting stick is 4 foot long tapers from 1" to 5/8" fiberglass. "

I have raised Hogs, and I have been frustrated with them, and I have been under a tight time line, and I have never once felt the need to beat one hard enough to break it's back with a fiberglass rod.

[Harter66]

Bad deal all around. I never had any pigs but we had chickens. There was 1 rooster that really has always stood out. That rotten son of a dog would spur you every chance he got, he beat up on the hens,all15 were bare backed. I don't remember who it was that went out but they just happened to catch him mid flight and knock him down everything being just wrong he flopped 2-3 times and that was that.

I suspect that the pig in question was also an instance of all being just exactly wrong. In farming/ranching sometimes what appears cruel is the fastest easiest way to do the job,and if fact may not be a truely cruel act at all but just a mimicry of the pack/heard dominance, and a tool.

As for the down animal, maybe an $80 habor freight atv winch is in order. As another suggestion my drivers license came w/a Handyman/farm jack,a very handy tool. I've winched trucks out of ditches and running rivers,lifted rooves, porches and biuldings,stretched fences and loaded a disabled backhoe on a flatbed. Heck I even changed a tire a couple of times.

Amazing so many here have not once lost their temper or made a bad shot or injured themselves not thinking clearly or misplanning an operation.

[montana_charlie]

In farming/ranching sometimes what appears cruel is the fastest easiest way to do the job,and if fact may not be a truely cruel act at all but just a mimicry of the pack/heard dominance, and a tool.
That is stoneage thinking.
Today's 'stockman' knows the most efficient way to handle animals is that which will stress them (and him) the least.

Repeated beating is stressful.

Animals will move most readily in the desired direction if the facilities are well-designed, and the worker knows how to use them. Haphazard arrangements of temporary panels are indicative of poor planning.
Expecting them to be adequate because they are reinforced with physical beating shows a general lack of knowledge and understanding.

If an animal outweighs you by a couple of hundred pounds, and you plan to force it to do anything it doesn't want to, you better be 'smarter' than the beast ... not 'more beastly'.

CM

[Harter66]

I was not trying to justify the beating. Ear tagging and branding are I'm sure are not pleasant or stress free. The OP has "expressed remorse",we have no way of knowing if it is for the injury to the animal in the 1st place or the loss of time and money.

While my unrefined description may be cavemanish there's not much humane about raising animals with the express idea of serving them or their off spiing for dinner. I don't overlook the range and pasture livestock,daries, feedlots,and chicken farms are a whole different kettle of fish. I doubt very much that the critter in question was worked or trained for showing but was fed,hosed down after and only ever meant to be groceries.

I couldn't feed a critter every day for months, teach it to walk into the truck, then drive it to the butcher,let alone butcher it myself. I don't have that issue game or someone elses critter. Actually I probably could if it was really needed and I had that mind set from day 1 where it was just food.

Again I'm not justifying it just offering another view.

[woody1]

[QUOTE=Harter66;1401627]I couldn't feed a critter every day for months, teach it to walk into the truck, then drive it to the butcher,let alone butcher it myself. I don't have that issue game or someone elses critter. Actually I probably could if it was really needed and I had that mind set from day 1 where it was just food.
QUOTE]

In short, here's my take on the above. I don't much care for the way most commercial livestock, chickens, et al are raised, treated, and fed. When I raise my own I know what it's being fed and how they are being treated. My critters are treated well, they have a good life while it lasts. When I eat 'em I know what I'm eating. OFF TOPIC & FWIW. Regards, Woody

[Rick N Bama]

We always just put buckets over their heads, you can push them anywhere.

A Pig can even be castrated when a bucket is over its head with no problem at all. That's the way we did it when I was on the farm.

Rick

[Bret4207]

That is stoneage thinking.
Today's 'stockman' knows the most efficient way to handle animals is that which will stress them (and him) the least.

Repeated beating is stressful.

Animals will move most readily in the desired direction if the facilities are well-designed, and the worker knows how to use them. Haphazard arrangements of temporary panels are indicative of poor planning.
Expecting them to be adequate because they are reinforced with physical beating shows a general lack of knowledge and understanding.

If an animal outweighs you by a couple of hundred pounds, and you plan to force it to do anything it doesn't want to, you better be 'smarter' than the beast ... not 'more beastly'.

CM

Charlie, I'm not disagreeing with anything you say, but not everyone with livestock is a "stockman". I've seen more animals killed by 'kindness" than by abuse. The neighbor that brings a nice big bag of fresh lawn clipping over and dumps them where your horse can eat them and get colic. The kindly owner (usually right out of the city) that confines their "majestic equine companions"/etc. all winter long in a nice tight barn where the horses/sheep/goats develop pneumonia. The lamb owner that turns his kids Easter gift into a field of clover only to find the lamb dead with bloat 12 hours later. The dog and cat owners that want to let Mittens and Fido run free, right into the path of the on coming cars or into the farmers field where the dog savages some sheep or chases some stock through a fence. These things happen.

I have a pretty ramshackle system for loading that revolves around cattle panels and plywood. It works, but it's hardly like those nifty set ups I see in the magazine ads and on You Tube or RFD. I will someday have a decent sorting set up and loading set up, but even a bare bones outfit will run into the thousands using factory set ups. The money just isn't there. In fact I don't know of a single farmer in my area that has any sorting pens or loading chutes. I know one guy that has his own squeeze, but that's it. Even the biggest beef guy I know locally just uses solid panels for loading.

I spent 2.5 hours today moving 2 steers and bull 3/4 mile. It was probably more like 3 miles actual walking distance. They took me right back to the low spot in my line fence they got out of last night. By the time I got them behind a nice hot wire with some grass to keep them happy I would very willingly have knocked the 3 of them in the head! Couldn't even use a horse to push them it was so wet and thick. Playing cowboy ain't all it's cracked up to be.

[1911sw45]

montana_charlie I never said I was a Stockman. Yeah spend 10,000.00 on a 5 hog a year handling facility. That makes alot of sense. I guess I can go the FSA office and get monies from the government to pay for a facility that would be to your approval. But I would rather try and keep the government off my land and life as much as possible. Yes I need to make changes on my loading area, and I plan on doing that when I can afford to do so. But for now I have to work with what I got. I try to give my animals the best life they can have believe it or not. But ultimately they are for my families meat consumption.

Hogs smaller than I can and have hurt people very badly. Hogs are pure muscle, and they can be very quick when they want to and turn on a dime. I would really like to see any one loading and unloading their hogs to train them to load easier that they raise for meat purposes only. I don't say people don't do that for show animals or pets.

I had to load another hog today to take to the butcher in the morning. See I learn that to do it the night before so I would not be rushed if something did not go as planned. I used a 5 gal bucket are people said to try. It works ok if you want the hog to go back wards and not forwards. You cant back a hog in to a trailer that is a little over a foot tall. As I found out. I did not use my cutting stick (I used the wrong term, it's call a sorting stick I got it from Rural King). Used only my hands and knees to try and guide him, not the greatest I say. With the bucket method the hog gets hot, could of been the way I was using the bucket I guess. I finally got him loaded after about an hour. He is now in the trailer awaiting tomorrow morning. Gave him water in there but no feed so he will be cleaned out for the butcher.

I don't care what people think of me or call me, your not in my shoes so you have no idea. As I said before my livestock being raise to feed my family. So I did learn from the first loading and is still learning. I don't like what happened to the other barrow, any more than any of you. I feel terrible about what happened. I guess that is it.

Adam

[pmer]

Glad to read it went better for you. Handling live stock is one of those things that is easier said than done. I've been there too; feeding, shoveling, chasing (and being chased), castrating and dehorning. One time my dad and I had to tie a rope around the leggs of a calf and pull it out of the cow that was trying to give birth. The cow survived but I don't think the calf did.

When I'm eating chicken and I notice a broken bone in the wing or drumstick I think to myself "this bird had a ruff ride".

Seperating nursing cows from their calves can be a joy too.

One thing that bugs me is controling the cat population - nothing cuter than baby kittens. Kittens turn into cats and the next thing you know you got more cats and soon you have to thin them out. I wonder how todays 'stockman' controls cats on the farm? :wink:

[montana_charlie]

I have a pretty ramshackle system for loading that revolves around cattle panels and plywood. It works, but it's hardly like those nifty set ups I see in the magazine ads and on You Tube or RFD. I will someday have a decent sorting set up and loading set up, but even a bare bones outfit will run into the thousands using factory set ups.
I had a ramshackle setup for the first year we kept cattle. I used portable panels in a single-pen horse corral for handling operations.
But, I already knew where the cattle corrals were going to be built, and the barn was 'in progress'.

I had previous experience, but it all came at a friend's ranch. That operation is nearly a hundred years old, and it wasn't built to any modern design.
So, the method we used to work the stock had to comply with the setup, and the arrangement required a 'crew' to work it.

Working my own animals ... and learning from them ... helped in designing the setup I now have. It will handle any number of cows as long as they are limited to groups of twenty, or so. I did buy a squeeze chute, but everything else is railroad ties and body odor ... including the self-built crowding tub.

The crowding tub will handle adult cows going to the squeeze chute for vaccinations, deworming, or 'whatever', and by swinging a panel into place, it works calves through a calf table for branding.

But, the main thing is, it's a set of pens and alleys that can be operated by one person with a minimum amount of chasing around. The squeeze chute is separated from the holding pen by a 'privacy fence' that helps keep waiting cows calm. And, except for the squeeze chute and the gates, none of it is 'factory made'.

They also sell factory-made maternity pens. Mine is self-built in a corner of the barn, and has been used to pull a number of calves over the years.
The vet says he feels it is as safe as any he has worked in ... and as convenient for the work to be done.


As for my use of the term 'stockman' ... it has nothing to do with the size of an operation.
It is just a shorter way of saying 'livestock manager'.

I could say cattleman, shepherd, pig farmer, or beekeeper, but 'stockman' covers any person who keeps livestock, manages their existence efficiently and humanely, and takes full responsibility for their well-being.

CM

[SSGOldfart]

next time use a come-along they will pull a 2000 pounder into the trail,I once loaded a horse that way, yep should have started last night so your anger&time wouldn't have been a issue
sorry for your lost,a hog goes along way during the winter

[1911sw45]

CM,
I am working on some sort of loading area for the hogs, but it's going to take time to build. In my experience cattle are a whole lot easier to handle than hogs. Cattle once they get going they pretty much follow each other, hogs do not and they will pile up on you. Have to take them one at a time mostly. I am open for ideas and suggestions. I sure don't know it all and pretty much every day is a whole new learning experience. Followed by having to learn other ways of doing things because of my back problems and learning my limitations, that's the hardest thing to do.

I got the barrow to the butcher this morning, he would not unload. So the guy there shot him in the trailer, and dragged him out. He did not stick him after he shot him and waited for him to quit moving till they dragged him out. When I got back home I had a message on my answering machine from the butcher. They said the hog looked like it was ran over by a truck and I was going to get a lot of wasted meat. Would not sticking him to bleed him cause this to happen? I have always stuck a hog just after they drop on the ground to bleed out. I am no getting worried about this butcher. Any one have any thoughts?

Thanks,

Adam

[Bret4207]

I've never heard of not sticking a hog. Up here we stick hogs, cattle, lambs, etc. Getting the blood out of the veins and arteries is what it's for and I don't see why wouldn't do it. I don't know if that would affect the bruising, that's in response to an injury. I don't think the sticking would have that much difference since bruising is bleeding among the tissues.

We had a cattle loading set up here when we moved in. It was the most 2x4 and baling wire set up I ever saw, all landscape timbers (really cheap treated lumber) and 1" pine. Even our goats would go through it. The former owner was a registered Polled Hereford breeder, but I understand he didn't do well. We ended up tearing it all out when the wind started taking it down.

In my particular case our issue is that the farm is divided by a town road. I really need 2 holding and loading facilities, but instead we just bring them out one gate or out of a field, down the road and into the barn. Most everyone else around here does it pretty much the same way. Maybe if I ever get my flock up to the size I want (about 200 ewes) I can set something better up.

I get to separate hogs tomorrow. Got one that got bed somehow. Great, more winter pigs that'll bring nothing.

[Rockydog]

Once a hog has been shot dead he won't bleed out much if his hearts not beating. Neither will a deer, but I've seen a lot of nice capes ruined by a big slash across the throat. If the skinned hog looked like he was run over by a truck that's a sign of severe bruising. Bruising only happens when an animal is alive. Probably caused by somebody beating him....

[1911sw45]

I will tell you this Rockydog this hog was not beat! If you have a problem with me just say so, don't beat around the bush!

[waksupi]

I will tell you this Rockydog this hog was not beat! If you have a problem with me just say so, don't beat around the bush!

Sorry, but I have to agree. Bruising can not occur in a body without blood circulation. Could have possibly happened when the animal was being hauled

[maglvr]

I will tell you this Rockydog this hog was not beat! If you have a problem with me just say so, don't beat around the bush!

This is classic! You come on here and tell the world, that you beat a hog hard enough to BREAK IT'S BACK!! Then, you get all upset and defensive, because you think someone might be accusing you of beating a hog!
Now, that's funny right there;-)

[Bret4207]

Anyone who has owned livestock knows they beat on each other. Hogs are rough animals. THe bruising could have come from another animal quite easily.

[akajun]

When my grandmother got so old she couldnt manhandle and beat the hogs when she needed to move or load them, she just poured a pile of feed in the trailer or wherever she wanted to go, then locked their feed trough where they couldnt eat. She would come back in an hour and open the gate where the pile of feed she poured was and the hogs would run in.

[LAcaster]

I was raised on a farm, my mom would never hurt an animial on purpose, and taught us that way. A couple of weeks before butchering she would start feeding them in the trailer they would go to market in. On thier faithful day they never had a clue till the door slamed shut. Worked on hogs, cattle too. I too have a short temper, but was raised to respect the anamils that gave thier lives for us, I don't take it out on them. You hav to out smart them, which isn't too hard. Oh by the way all of our livestock had names and some even followed us around, my friends never understood how we could have a pet and eat it. I never looked at it that way, it was just food and company while it lived.

[wheezengeezer]

Seems kinda odd that someone limited to lifting 20 pounds can break a 600 pound hogs back with a stick.

[slide]

I have made tons of mistakes. Some of them I still don't know why. It is part of being human. I am not going to cast any stones,because I am sure not without guilt.

[Beagler]

Put up a tripod over where he lays and hoist him up. Start a cutting.

Agree thats way to much time/money and food to waist. Gut it and half it and get cooled off. Or just have one hell of a big pig roast!