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FWest
09-12-2011, 07:40 AM
This is not to start a red vs green vs blue thing


Had a long talk with an Alliant powder rep who is also a competitive shooter at the local gun store. He uses an RCBS pro 2000 with the auto index and highly recommends it over the Dillon 550 and Hornady LNLAP.

If anyone uses one of these units are you happy with the 2000 ? Do you like the strip primer system ? Can you easily deprime and re size in the same run as reloading ? Is there a roller handle available. Change over time ? How much effort to pull handle with a full shell plate of pistol brass ? OAL variation ?

I will be in the market for a better progressive soon and I have been happy with all the RCBS gear I now own.

garym1a2
09-12-2011, 08:33 AM
Good question. I have a lee classic turrent. While it is a good.press, my speed is only 150 per hour. I Would like to know the real speed of the pro2000, LNL and Dillon 550b as I am in market for a progressive for 9mm and 45acp.

curiousgeorge
09-12-2011, 09:05 AM
Well, I had a Pro 2000 on my bench for about 4 weeks.

It did not belong to me, but I offered to help a friend's widow to sell some of his reloading equipment. He had bought it new and had never loaded a shell, had attempted to get it going, but at that point in his life lacked the attention span and dexterity to make it work.

This is a well made machine. I admit that it took me a couple of times to get used to the primer strips. I carelessly stuck one in backwards which locked up the priming system and I probably fiddled with everything for 30 minutes before I realized my mistake. I did like the fact that the powder measure stayed mounted on the press and that the case belling was done with regular die set. This model was before the automatic advance. You turned the shell plate by hand the same as on a Dillon 550. Caliber change-overs were fairly easy, but not as fast as pulling the whole tool head on a Dillon with an extra powder measure attached, but again, more expense in having an extra measure.

I have a Piggyback II and was tempted to buy the machine myself due to the interchangability for the shell plates, but sold to a buddy instead. If you have an opportunity to buy one of these presses at something considerably less than retail you probably will be happy with it. My experience with RCBS customer service over the last 30 years has been excellent (Dora Paul, I miss you!!).

Now, all the above being said, I personally prefer the Dillon 550b machine. At the time that I had the Pro 2000 above, I owned two of the Dillon 550's. Since then, I have two more of the 550's for a total of four. I still have the Piggyback II and a Star Universal with 2 heads. I have a bit of experience with several different types of machines.

If you buy a Pro 2000 or a Dillon 550b, learn the machine, take your time, and in my opinion you will be pleased with whichever choice you make.

Steve

danny.k
09-12-2011, 09:16 AM
Good question. I have a lee classic turrent. While it is a good.press, my speed is only 150 per hour. I Would like to know the real speed of the pro2000, LNL and Dillon 550b as I am in market for a progressive for 9mm and 45acp.

I only load rifleammo on my 550b(45-70, 308w and 30-06) but making 100 complete cartridges of either takes roughly 12-15 minutes.
Have no experiance with the red or green one though.
Only load 338lapua on my single-press (Hornady 007) nowadays ;-)


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seagiant
09-12-2011, 06:06 PM
Hi,
Try this: http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=26

I had a Dillon 550B and wanted to fall in love but never could! Sold it!

williamwaco
09-12-2011, 09:50 PM
I have the Hornady LnL AP. I do not have the auto case feed or auto bullet feed. The primer feed works well. The auto indexing sorta so-so. It requires constant adjustment. Over all I like it fine but I wish I had bought green.

In my experience most production speeds are seriously overstated and do not account for setup, cleaning out, refilling, etc. In a short run, I can load 8 to 10 rounds per minute, That sounds like 480 to 600 rounds per hour but the true rate is no where near that level. In an hour, I will have to fill the primer tube several times. I will have to empty the catch tray several times, I will have to pick bullets, and cases off the floor. Cases will split when resized or expanded and have to be picked out.
A cartridge will get crooked and be crumpled by the seating die, etc, etc, etc.

In a real loading session when I have an unlimited supply of cases, primers, and bullets within reach without getting off my stool, I can load around 300 to 350 per hour. ( .38 Special )

jakharath
09-14-2011, 03:02 PM
I have a 550b and can sustain* 450 rounds per minute of 9mm and 45acp.


*The wife unit keeps the primers filled and the completed bullet tray empty.

FWest
09-14-2011, 03:18 PM
Seagiant- I did find that write up after posting, good info.



Thanks for input. Do the 550b owners deprime and resize on the same run as reloading ? Do use sort your brass before reloading ?

seagiant
09-14-2011, 06:27 PM
Hi,
Ok, I'm going to give it to you straight up,but remember this is the world according to Seagiant after reloading for 30+ years! The Dillon 550B is probably the most liked progressive reloader made AND supported today! It has removable shell heads, case activated powder drop and trouble free manual indexing. I did NOT like the reloader after using it for about 4 years!!! If you want to reload on a progressive I would go with a STAR and get what parts you need off different places on the Internet. however this takes dedication and a willingness to think and do for yourself. You can't call STAR and get parts or an answer to your question!

I also sold my 3 STARS not to long ago because I was tired of progressives and wanted to slow down and get more involved in my reloading. I have now gone to the PW Metallic II and I'm quite happy!

hiram1
09-14-2011, 08:22 PM
i will stay with dillon and be happy .there real good to work with and a good co.

Colorado4wheel
09-15-2011, 04:49 PM
Well both my 550 and 650 work great. I can load 100 rds of pistol ammo on a 550 in well under 10 mins easily. It seldom if ever chokes so that is a real speed. Can I do that for a hour, heck no. I get bored to easily.
650 can load 100 rds of pistol in 6 mins or less. It also is very reliable. Doesn't choke (it's just a little more finicky to setup then the 650 because it's so much faster).
My lnl could never do the above. It would mess up every 1oo rds at least a couple time. Not a huge deal but hardly confidence inspiring compared to my Dillons.

I hear the RCBS is a good machine UNLESS it gets powder under the shellplate. So keep it clean and it works fine. That was from a friend who owned one and sold it to get a LnL.

LUBEDUDE
09-15-2011, 08:24 PM
Well, I had a Pro 2000 on my bench for about 4 weeks.

It did not belong to me, but I offered to help a friend's widow to sell some of his reloading equipment. He had bought it new and had never loaded a shell, had attempted to get it going, but at that point in his life lacked the attention span and dexterity to make it work.

This is a well made machine. I admit that it took me a couple of times to get used to the primer strips. I carelessly stuck one in backwards which locked up the priming system and I probably fiddled with everything for 30 minutes before I realized my mistake. I did like the fact that the powder measure stayed mounted on the press and that the case belling was done with regular die set. This model was before the automatic advance. You turned the shell plate by hand the same as on a Dillon 550. Caliber change-overs were fairly easy, but not as fast as pulling the whole tool head on a Dillon with an extra powder measure attached, but again, more expense in having an extra measure.

I have a Piggyback II and was tempted to buy the machine myself due to the interchangability for the shell plates, but sold to a buddy instead. If you have an opportunity to buy one of these presses at something considerably less than retail you probably will be happy with it. My experience with RCBS customer service over the last 30 years has been excellent (Dora Paul, I miss you!!).

Now, all the above being said, I personally prefer the Dillon 550b machine. At the time that I had the Pro 2000 above, I owned two of the Dillon 550's. Since then, I have two more of the 550's for a total of four. I still have the Piggyback II and a Star Universal with 2 heads. I have a bit of experience with several different types of machines.

If you buy a Pro 2000 or a Dillon 550b, learn the machine, take your time, and in my opinion you will be pleased with whichever choice you make.

Steve


Wow, you can't get a more fair, honest, level evaluation than that.

quasi
09-19-2011, 07:04 PM
I had a Dillon 550 for several years, it is a good press. I got a good deal on a used RCBS 2000 here and ran both side by side for a while. I found the RCBS press to be superior inmany ways to the 550. It should be, they copied and improved on the 550.

I sold the Dillon long ago, the RCBS 2000 suits me much better.

LUBEDUDE
09-20-2011, 01:31 AM
I had a Dillon 550 for several years, it is a good press. I got a good deal on a used RCBS 2000 here and ran both side by side for a while. I found the RCBS press to be superior inmany ways to the 550. It should be, they copied and improved on the 550.

I sold the Dillon long ago, the RCBS 2000 suits me much better.


That is the first time I have heard a story like that!

Please tell us the many ways the RCBS is superior.

I am totally ignorant, I really want to know.

lotech
09-20-2011, 07:55 AM
I sold my RCBS Pro 2000 several years ago. This is a decent press, but, like other similar machines is for production only - not practical for experimentation with loads. I don't recall now exactly what the specific problem was with the strip primer system, but it was never totally reliable. Now, I use a couple of Stars for .38 Special and .45 ACP production work and a versatile '60s Texan turret press for other handgun rounds. No regrets.

GabbyM
09-20-2011, 09:16 AM
Seagiant- I did find that write up after posting, good info.



Thanks for input. Do the 550b owners deprime and resize on the same run as reloading ? Do use sort your brass before reloading ?

That all depends upon what Im loading. For bottleneck rifle rounds you can run a Lee collet neck sizer which requires no lube. Or run a neck sizer and run your cases over a brush and motor mica first. There is not place to put a Lyman M die or other expander die ahead of the powder drop on the second station. Thus I often pre size cases on my Rock Chucker. Tumble in corn cob to remove size lube. Then run an M die in station one. If the RCBS 2000 has an extra station for adding an expander die after the sizer it should be a better cast bullet loader.

FWest
09-20-2011, 10:41 AM
Most of what I load is straight wall pistol- 9mm, 38,357, 45acp. I do some rifle but have not tried it on a progressive.

quasi
09-20-2011, 05:25 PM
That is the first time I have heard a story like that!

Please tell us the many ways the RCBS is superior.

I am totally ignorant, I really want to know.

OK, here I go;

1 5 stations instead of 4

2 cast iron and steel instead of aluminum

3 deprimes on station 1 and reprimes on station 2, thus preventing the fired primer grit from fouling the repriming mecanism.

4 much more reliable priming system with no maintence needed every 500 rds . I have loaded over 20,000 rds with 0 repriming problems.

5 under 1 minute to change primer sizes

6 it is cheaper to buy caliber conversions

7 many more calibre conversions available

8 better case retention system

9 auto indexing is an option

10 more leverage and a bigger press opening window for big hans and big cases

The 550 is better IMO in these ways

1 better quality casting finishes and paint quality

2 case feeder is an option

3 press arms are drilled with oil holes

4 resale value

Warrantys are equal

seagiant
09-20-2011, 06:21 PM
Hi FWest,
Try this: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=673612

LUBEDUDE
09-20-2011, 07:13 PM
Thanks for educating me quasi!

That was good, specific information.

It's good to know that there really is another option out there for a progressive besides Blue and Red.

Colorado4wheel
09-22-2011, 09:20 PM
For the price of the RCBS you can pretty much get the 650. Also, 5 stations, Auto indexing. etc.

quasi
09-23-2011, 10:40 PM
For the price of the RCBS you can pretty much get the 650. Also, 5 stations, Auto indexing. etc.


And for the price of a 650 with case feeder you can "pretty much" buy a Super 1050 and have the best progressive ever made ( O.K., excluding the Ransom and the Star)

It's all about how much money you can spend, and how much automation you need or can deal with. I purchased both my 550 and my RCBS 2000 used for around 50% of retail.

GabbyM
09-24-2011, 12:56 AM
I bought an RCBS Rock Chucker back in the sixties and a Dillon 550 in the 1990's.
They both get the job done. Especially the RCBS as it's absolutely precise.

Friends have Hornady and RCBS progressives and they love them respectfully.
My Dillon 550 is pretty hard to find fault with for pistol round loading. Powder measure works great and I very rarely have a stoppage. At first I used the Dillon to load my Varmint Rifle rounds but anymore I do that in a single stage process. I load my 5.56mm ball rounds on the Dillon using a Forester Bench Rest seater die with the case capture sleeve to align the case in spite of the slop in the Dillon shell holders head. Any ammo where Im striving to shoot under a half inch at 200 yards does not get run across my 550 Dillon progressive. It will load rounds capable of hitting prairie dogs at a quarter mile. But then they will miss now and then. After all a PD is a good two inches across at 440 yards.

Like the man stated above post the RCBS cost more than a Dillon 550. Id like to play with an RCBS to see how tight they are for loading rifle ammo.

Kevin Rohrer
09-24-2011, 08:07 AM
I have a 550b and can sustain* 450 rounds per minute of 9mm and 45acp.

Wow! The shaft lube must burn off pretty fast at that rate! :holysheep

Kevin Rohrer
09-24-2011, 08:15 AM
:hijack: Seagiant: Why did you go w/ the PW-II instead of the P200?

Gunsmoke4570
09-24-2011, 01:12 PM
I've been using an RCBS 2000 for several years now. Have not and do not plan on adding the auto index. I can load 100 pistol rounds in 15-20 min. That is setting up the machine and loading the primer strips. If the machine is already set up and primer strips are ready, probably 10-15min sustained for an hour. I don't push for max speed I just try to get into a nice smooth rhythm. I can't really stand there for more than an hour anyway, so I usually set up the press and load the primer strips and load a 100 at a time when I have a few minutes to spare. Never had any issues with the primer strip system and press is very durable and reliable. Consistency and repeatability are excellent. Since the primer strips hold 25 primers, I normally check powder charge and inspect the loaded round when I load a new strip. As others have mentioned, if you let the mechanism get dirty you will start to have some issues. Keep it clean and it works like a champ!

seagiant
09-24-2011, 04:46 PM
Hi Kevin,
Your question is a good one for me because I thought about which of the two loaders to get for over a week. I mean really thought about it,worrying that I might make the bad choice having seen neither one of them in person! The thing that attracted me to the Met.II was how beefy and strong it is. I like a big reloader even for pistol reloading. I also load shotshells as I shoot alot of skeet and trap. I have a PW 375 shotshell loader that is simular to the P200 in some ways. Looking at everything I had to go with the Met II and I've been very happy. Saying that if I saw a P 200 for sale at a good price I would pick it up no problem just to check it out! I love playing and tweaking these loaders from LEE's to Spolar Golds they are all interesting to me!

Bradley
09-25-2011, 09:27 PM
I've owned several Dillons. The RL1000 wasn't all that great but the rest were. The 550 is an excellent machine.

I've now got five Pro 2000's. Their main advantage over the Dillon is the APS primer strips. Those really work well.

I'd skip the auto indexing feature, either on the Pro 2000 or in a Dillon 650. In my opinion it is a solution to a non-existant problem. Makes the machine more complex and a bit less reliable.

seagiant
09-25-2011, 10:15 PM
Hi Bradly,
Five RCBS Pro 2000's? Wow I'd love to see some pics! I guess you bought them all new? I've kept my eye out for one of these used and they are pretty rare to come across and then when you do find one they are still not cheap!