Another dog town gone

[DLCTEX]

At church today I learned that one of the few remaining prairie dog towns I could shoot has been eradicated. It was only about 200 dogs, so I hadn't hunted it too hard to keep it going. The big dog town we used to shoot is no longer shootable due to so many wells being drilled (gas). I am now limited to three dog towns that have very few, except on that is on the edge of town (people) and can only be shot from one direction. I can't blame the landowner for wanting them gone as the drought has limited grazing to where the competition from the dogs is costly.:sad::sad::sad:

[MakeMineA10mm]

Yeah, it's too bad he at least didn't call and say, "come finish 'em up, or I'm poisoning them." At least you'd have had the pleasure of finishing them. I take it these are local places that you can shoot in an hour's drive or less? Haven't really heard TX being a big prairie dog state, but I suppose they're there.

I'm looking for some prairie dog shooting in So. Dakota or Nebraska, so it's as little of drive as possible, as there's no "towns" closer to me than that. Hoping to go next year or the year after.

[bowfin]

Just got back from Valentine National Wildlife Refuge in Northwest Nebraska. They have both buffalo and prairie dogs in abundance, and I was surprised to see the grass was almost knee high just a few hundred feet from the burrows.

The above observation leads me to believe that the old excuse "Them dogs will eat the pasture bare!" is an excuse to blame prairie dogs for actually overgrazing by running too many cattle.

I understand Texas is in a bad drought, but poisoning or gassing prairie dogs won't bring rain.

I also wonder if the ranchers here in Nebraska would make more money most years by raising prairie dogs to shoot rather than taking a chance with cattle prices.

[Rockydog]

bowfin, I shoot dogs in SD every year. In 5 years time one of the towns I shoot has gone from a few isolated mounds here and there to over 60 acres in that time. The whole thing looks like a putting green. The dogs have it clipped to nothing. I know of a rancher in Wyoming that spends over $10000 a year in PD control costs. These are big $$$$ losses. In general ranchers don't run too many cattle. Running too many is a fools game from a management standpoint, low rates of gain and unhealthy cattle, and keeps them from doing so. It's just not good business. Plus, good stewardship of the land is the norm these days not the exception. RD

[Blammer]

I have seen first hand a dog town dessimate a 80 acre pasture, to the point that it could support not even one horse. They had to feed that horse because there was no grazing available on the whole property.

It's not just a saying it's the truth.

The farmer told me to shoot all I can cause he was going to eradicate them at the end of the week. He complained that the PD's took over and he couldn't even have his one horse live on the pasture with out extra feed.

600rnds of ammo later... there weren't many left for the farmer. He was happy. :)

[bowfin]

I have seen pastures in poor shape with and without prairie dogs. I haven't seen pastures in poor shape without cattle being present.

So in my limited experience, (which includes friends and relatives ranching), how many cattle and what grazing practices (if any) are used is the deciding factor, not the prairie dogs. In the case of drought like Texas, that trumps all.

[Hickory]

I've been going out to Wyoming and South Dakota every year since 1979.
I made a trip from California to Ohio this year and had my nephew meet me in South Dakota to shoot some prairie dogs, there were very few left in the few strong holds that I know of. The plague has moved through The Dakotas just as it did in Wyoming 15-16 years ago.

I would say that the days of going anywhere out west and finding prairie dogs to shoot are over.

The prairie dog maybe heading foe extinction just as the black-footed ferret that lives on them is near extinction.

I don't think I'll waste my time and money going out there any more.

There were three of us shooting for 4 days and we shot less than 400 rounds.

In the "old days" 3 of us could have shot that many rounds before lunch the first day.

[JIMinPHX]

Out by me, in the last year or two, they have been dieing off in droves. I hardly see them anymore in places where I used to trip over the darn things.

[Lloyd Smale]

ground hogs are like wild pigs. I total pain in the but if there on your property but im sure envious of you guys that have access to shooting a bunch of them for free. Weve got nothing like that for targets up here. Only chance i have for ground hog shooting is when i get out to my sisters in great falls mt about every other year.

[Harter66]

The few we have out here in my expirence are kept in check by the coyotes, which have for now an open no license season.

[DLCTEX]

Bowfin, I'll confuse you even more with some logic. What do you think those hundreds of dogs were eating? Each one consumes a couple pounds a day. That equates to a large round bake of hay every two days=$40 X15= $600 per month. How long would you donate to keep them fed?

[PatMarlin]

Well if it's anything like the critters here, populations run in cycles. There will be a stretch of good years, and a stretch of not so good. Just like rain water. I think water has a lot to do with it.

[cbrick]

I think PatMarlin is right. If the dog population was in as dire shape as some here have made it sound all you would see in most western towns is ranchers dancing in the streets.

Rick

[frank505]

I am puzzled by the dog towns southeast of Meteetse being vacant. Not plague, there are zero dogs left in towns I've seen for years. It is also black footed ferret territory. I feel someone is poisening the towns, either the BLM and/or the rancher leasers. This on public land by the way so these are public animals. Used to be a fun afternoon down there, but no more.

[roysha]

bowfin: You truly do not know what the hell you are talking about. I could show you entire sections of prairie decimated by pds. No cattle in sight because they would starve to death before they could find their way out of the desert created by the prairie rats. This is on both private and federal ground. In the latter case the little bussturds are protected since they are so cute and cuddly, oh yeah and endangered.

[Rockydog]

My buddy has been going to SD for about 10 years. About 5 years ago the ranch where he was shooting poisoned the whole ranch. Not knowing this until he arrived he went to his usual spot where he normally shot in excess of 500 rounds per day. In two days he shot 6 dogs and used 11 cartridges simply because of the distance he was shooting. Normally he's an 85% shooter. Fast forward to last fall. 4 years later. He and his son returned to that ranch and shot about 1500 rounds in two days. Prolific isn't even the word for PDs. RD

[white eagle]

I think Pat's on to something
round here the ruffed grouse run on cycles
10 year swing ......

[DLCTEX]

The only cycle I've ever observed in Texas is an upward cycle without man intervening when you are talking prairie dogs. Kangaroo rats, rabbits, coyotes, and prairie chickens are a different matter. I think the kangaroo rats and prairie chickens declined when the farmers here quit farming milo (sorghum). Also much of our wheat is grazed out and then killed with Round UP before it goes to seed. Much of our county is in CRP and was planted in weeping love grass, making a monoculture that is good only for cover. With the coyotes it is Red Mange that has reduced their numbers dramatically.

[pergoman]

My dad and I have made over 2 dozen trips since 1995 to SD, ND, Wy, and Co to shoot dogs.
It is not the same as it was even 5 years ago on any of the ranches or reservations. We have concluded that the overall decline of targets can be attributed to 2 main factors along with a few other contributing realities. The 2 factors are the 17 hmr and side by side atv's. The 17 hmr has allowed many more shooters who don't reload to dent the populations. There are a lot of "drive by" killings going on with people using their hmr's out the truck windows or simply strolling through dog towns and popping the close ones.
The side by side atv has become the vehicle of choice for many pd exterminators. We have seen dozens equipped with forward facing gun rests on the dashboards. The shooters can cruise all over the prairie and pop any dog that pokes his head out of the hole. There is no longer a desire to practice quality marksmanship while utilizing live targets loke there was a decade or so ago. The old technique was to set up and take quality shots for an hour or 3 before advancing 200 yards for a new angle or different targets. It used to be about testing your shooting skills and equipment. Now, for many, it is just about killing as many as you can.
Other factors which have contributed to the decline of shootable populations would be the increase in retired baby boomers who have the time and financial means to make several trips each year. We have talked to fellas who make 5-10 trips a year with their atv's and cases of ammo. Small sections of dog towns which used to be hidden by terrain and allowed to repopulate the area are now accesable and getting hammered.

[hiram1]

IT SEEMS to me thay dont want to be a good shot thay just want to shoot

[DLCTEX]

I found out today that big round bales of hay are now selling for $100 each. Which pushes the damage for 300 dogs to $1500 a month. Still haven't received any donations to feed the dogs.

[PatMarlin]

I'd love to have one of those SXS Atv's to hunt pot growers. Don't worry about the P-dogs guys, just shift targets and let the PD's recover. Plenty of pot grows these days. They're fun to shoot. They can't seem to hear boolits comin' and as soon as one gets hit, they hesitate, then scatter. Plenty of time to get off a few more shots.

[9.3X62AL]

Now, Pat.......behave yerself. They're just peace-loving holistic-living hippies from the Bay Area.

(Time to make popcorn......this will be good)

The only good rat--is a DEAD rat. Period.

[cbrick]

I'd love to have one of those SXS Atv's to hunt pot growers. Don't worry about the P-dogs guys, just shift targets and let the PD's recover. Plenty of pot grows these days. They're fun to shoot. They can't seem to hear boolits comin' and as soon as one gets hit, they hesitate, then scatter. Plenty of time to get off a few more shots.

http://www.lasc.us/laughingpig.gif

[Rockydog]

Wow some folks here paint with an awfully large brush. I shoot off of an ATV. I handload every round I shoot (some with homecast 223 and 243). I test loads to find the most accurate combinations of components. I've got something much more valuable than money in my ammo. I've got my time and effort wrapped up in mine. Why would I not care about careful shooting and quality marksmanship? Because I use an ATV I care more about kill numbers than accuracy? I keep track shot by shot. Want to compare hit percentages? I only go once a year. Does that make me a more ethical person than one who goes five times a year? Or, even two dozen times in 15 years? Who defines the moral standards by which we should shoot prairie dogs? I'd like to see a copy of the rules. Oh, and I'm a baby boomer too. Guess I should stay home and drink weak tea and eat chicken noodle soup as compensation for all the years I worked my tail off and couldn't afford the time off or the ammo needed to embark on such a trip. Sheesh! I've heard it all now. Don't need the antis to divide us we do a great job all on our own. RD

[bowfin]

bowfin: You truly do not know what the hell you are talking about. I could show you entire sections of prairie decimated by pds. No cattle in sight because they would starve to death before they could find their way out of the desert created by the prairie rats.

Then why didn't the prairie dogs eat the buffalo into extinction thousands of years ago? Even better question, why haven't prairie dogs eaten themselves into extinction?

Why is the grass so high on the last two wildlife refuges I saw this year where nothing is done to control prairie dogs? Are North Dakota prairie dogs and Nebraska prairie dogs somehow different?

Why can I see pasture reduced to blowouts 80 miles NW of here AFTER the prairie dogs have been gone for 80 years? Absent prairie dogs, what caused those?

I have / had relatives with prairie dogs on their land, so don't feed me the same line you feed the city slickers about balancing nature by poisoning towns.

No species ran out of grass before the cattle and fences came. Both bison and prairie dogs moved with the grass. Granted, prairie dog colonies moved bit by bit, burrow by burrow, but they moved, given grasslands time to recover. Hem bison, cattle, and/or prairie dogs in to a limited area where they can't move and the grass doesn't get enough time to mature and reseed.

BTW, when my cousins and great uncles wanted to knock down the population a bit, they would throw a cople dozen hay bales spaced out in the thickest part of the towns, which gave the hawks and coyotes vantage points and cover to increase predation.

[bowfin]

How long would you donate to keep them fed?

Do you mean the prairie dogs or farmers? Prairie dogs, I'd donate a couple years. Farmers and ranchers, the last 34 years...

[DLCTEX]

PM me and I'll put you in touch with the proper organization to donate to to help the ranchers provide hay for their cattle.

[Freightman]

Bofin I am with DLCTEX come down or up where ever and you will not find any knee deep grass in the Panhandle this year, I water my grass and it still will not grow.

[376Steyr]

In the early '90's my buddy and I went to central Montana for a PD hunt. Hired a local guide for a day to take us onto some private land, owned by associates of the guide. Towards the end of the day, after shooting several different ranches, a pickup pulled up and the guide went over to talk to what seemed to be a rather upset cowboy. Fearing the worst (dead cow, hurt ranch hand) we waited until the guide returned and the rancher drove off. "What's the problem?" I asked. The guide looked embarrassed and said, "I promised Luke we'd shoot dogs at his place today, but we didn't get to it. He's a little mad at me. Would you mind coming back here tomorrow and shoot the dogs on the other side of the fence over there? I sure would appreciate it."