lee 240 cast for hunting

[Judan_454]

Im wondering if I should use a softer alloy for hunting to get more expansion? I use a wheel weight, lino mix or could I paper patch the bullet and go with pure lead.

[Boolseye]

Well, you could certainly soften it up from WW/Lino. That's a pretty hard boolit. I assume this is a .44. Are you using a gas check? if so, I would say WW/pure lead, maybe 60-40.

[Judan_454]

Yes it is a 44 mag ruger superredhawk, I guess the way to test them would be to shoot them into some wet newspapers. But thats hard to get in my house because I read the newspaper online.

[gon2shoot]

Straight WW works for me.

[44man]

The .44 is just right with a hard boolit. A good meplat like a WLN, WFN or RNFP is just fine. Only when you get to 100 yards would I want a little softer after the boolit slows but my deer have all died anyway.
It needs no expansion at all.
I like a heavier boolit then the 240 myself but there is nothing wrong with them. I would creep towards 300 gr or a little more if you hunt large animals.
I use water dropped WW's. I would keep the lino mix for target or just hoard the lino supply.

[HammerMTB]

The 240 Lee I had was a SWC with a GC. If you are using a GC, you can go much softer. It will depend to some extent on how hard you are driving them. If you are only shooting deer at less than 100 yards, you don't need a 1500FPS load. That will make a follow-up shot quicker too, if it becomes necessary. I tend to agree with that a .44 hole clear thru will kill most any deer, given reasonable shot placement. Expansion may be convenient, but it isn't all that necessary.

[fisheadgib]

If you separate the clip-on and stick on wheel weights when you smelt them, you'll have two different hardnesses to alloy with. I get 22bnh from water quenched clip-on wheel weights which is plenty hard for any pistol and most rifle velocities. Even air cooled wheel weights are plenty hard for the load you described.

[Bushrat]

Not much need for expansion with the 44 mag. I have shot bears deer and caribou with a 44 mag pistol and have never seen the need for more diameter. I like the fact they just punch through and the critters fall.

Your expierence may vary

[GabbyM]

I’ve an old RCBS 44-240-SWC-GC that cast a .434” bullet from 2:6 alloy. For a hunting bullet I cast them form 50/50 WW/ PB. Run through a .430” die then oven heat treat at 440 degrees for fifteen minutes to cold water quench. Then I check and lube size them. Load them over a charge of H110 or AA#9 to shoot out of my 6” barrel.

The heat treated bullets should just blunt the nose at pistol velocity and not loose any weight except for bone cutting. There is near zero chance of a fragmentation as you may rarely get with straight 2:6 hard cast alloy at those velocities. Heat treated straight WW can bust up on bone if you shoot them at 1,500 fps. There is no reason to shoot that brittle of a bullet. On a little deer it won’t matter much if they fragment and it actually may kill them quicker. That’s just not the way I prefer to make big game bullets.

In a 44 just plain air cooled wheel weights can work fine. I’ve about eight bullets and I play around with alloys. But a simple boolit from WW metal will get it done. Most of us just enjoy making things complicated for the sake of hobby craft.

[44man]

I never had a WW boolit break up on anything but that might be the key---1500 fps, there is just no need for a .44 to shoot that fast.
I have always held the position that too fast needs some expansion.
So yes, add expansion for velocity.
I also believe in some expansion with real slow boolits for hunting.
I have used WW, water dropped at 1630 fps from my 45-70 BFR and none ever broke up but they make great hole punches with little internal damage.
All things must be in balance. :drinks:

[GabbyM]

I don’t have any test to show it but am pretty sure the larger a bullet is the more it will resist breaking upon impact at any given velocity and alloy brittleness. For instance heat treated WW alloy cast into a thirty caliber rifle bullet may blow the nose off at velocity X while the same alloy cast into a 405 grain 45/70 bullet fired at the same velocity would hold together. Sounds reasonable to me.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I am no hunting expert myself but I have read in the good gun mags many times that a 240 gr .44 SWC bullet will go clean thru an Elk at 1100fps. As will a 300gr SWC at 1000fps.

I hope to gain actual practical knowledge on these so called facts in the next few years. I'll report back when I do ,and you can bet on that.

If this is actually true, and I wouldn't question Brian Pearce too much on his level of expertise, then even a .44 Special with either a 250 or 300gr boolit from a 4.75" pistol should do fine against any of the deer type game. Within range of course. Everything in velocity above that is just gravy!

Out of a rifle,,, WOW . A softer gas checked bullet that doesn't break apart is going to be goin' all the way thru no matter what. A 1/2" hole clear thru is going to kill just about anything eventually , and usually within 15 seconds. Hell, from what I've seen on TV, an arrow will kill most deer, elk, or moose within 15 seconds. Ted Nugent is living proof of that.

When you look at a 300 gr Boolit from a .44 rifle at nearly 2000fps you are essentially talking the equivalent of a .45-90 Express load with 300gr bullets. They killed everything with that load by 1910.

Those same 300 gr .45-70 bullets at 1300 fps are what I plink with now. But 300 gr .44 cal bullets at 1300 fps have taken just about every game animal on this planet shot from pistols, or so they tell me, so maybe should we should treat these guns with a little more respect.

With todays TV shows (VS. and Outdoor Channel) and Magazines like Rifle and Handloader we are able to figure out exactly what we want to do and how to achieve it like never before. Mainly due to the expertise and reliablilty of their staffs. We have real world eveidence we can see every night of the week.

Not to mention this website which is so filled with first hand knowledge I can't see how it can even walk!

Randy

[leadman]

My 445 Super Mag rifle won't push a 300gr boolit to 2,000 fps, would need a 444 Marlin to do that.

I did shoot an elk at 75 yards with the Lee 310 RFN of air cooled WW at about 1,050 fps. went all the way thru broadside, no problem. From the appearance of the exit hole the boolit did not expand. Elk died anyway.
Since you are probably hunting deer amongst many other hunters probably some expansion may drop the deer sooner.

[reloader28]

Thats good to know^^^^^
I'm going to use mine elk hunting this year in 44mag. :p

[Larry Gibson]

I prefer GC'd softer cast bullets in my .357, .41 and .44 magnums. I run all of them with appropriate cast bullets at 1350 - 1425 fps out of 6 - 6 1/2" barreled revolvers. I use WW + 2% tin and then mix with lead at 50/50 or a 16-1 lead tine alloy. Bullets are AC'd. Accuracy is excellent, expansion is very good and penetration is through and through on deer and on the 3 elk I've shot with the 429244HP. Properly cast HPs of correct design and alloy do not shatter or blow up on animals. They expand and penetrate, most often through and through. There is an excellent thread on the Hunting forum with pictures of numerous pigs killed in Australia with a .44 cal Devesator.

I use HPs of proper alloy that expand because they kill quicker. That's not important to some but it is to me. I've used the heavy for caliber WFPs and find they do no better. I won't bash the hard cast bullets because they do kill and I've used them. However, the properly cast HP of medium to medium heavy for caliber weight performs better for me.

Larry Gibson

[44man]

Larry, that is true. I am only comfortable with harder boolits in a narrow velocity range.
I shoot my 45-70 at 1621 fps and hard boolits are no better then bouncing a rock off the deer so I went to Babore's 50-50 hollow point, oven hardened. I lost an entire shoulder and the bloodshot mess leads me to a better alloy next time.
I can't imagine the damage it would do at 2000 fps????? I like to grind my own meat :bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:
I am thinking 75-25 for a trial.

[Larry Gibson]

44man

I've said many times we have to match the alloy and size/shape of the HP to the indended game for the intended impact velocitites. Cast bullets are no different that jacketed bullets; use the wrong type of bullet and poor performance can happen. With cast this is as you say; either with hard cast ones, soft cast or HP ones.

Speaking of the 45-70, many years ago when I had just converted my Siamese Mauser to 45-70 and was shooting 457483s cast of older WWs (harder than those of today). I was pushing them at 1700 fps over 48 gr 4895. I had a mule deer doe tag and figured to use that as that old RN bullet just makes a .45 cal hole right through.....or so everything I'd read and been told said.....Well I found a little group of does in some timber and picked a nice big one off to the side standing perfectly broadside. What I didn't see was her twin sister standing exactly lined up with her behind a downed log (why I didn't see her legs) about 20 yards behind the one I picked to shoot. I shot (30 - 35 yard shot) through the trailing edge of the front leg so as to "not damage to much meat". The bullet pulverized the off shoulder and went through both shoulders of the doe behind. One shot and 3 mangled shoulders! I still haven't figured that one out........

Anyways, I learned through trial and error that with muzzle velocities of 1850 - 2200 fps for out to 200 yards a soft alloyed HP cast bullet expands quite well if the HP is kept within. Lyman's HP stems make too deep a HP. I've found the instructions with the Forster HP tool to HP only to about 1/8" for "magnum" loads and deeper for lighter loads. I've use the 1/8" Forster drill in 9mm/.38/.357/.41/.44 and .45 handgun cartridges for many years. Cast soft and HP'd to 2/3 the depth of the nose gives excellent expansion and penetration when driven at top, safe velocities in handguns. Testing in a good soft medium like sopping wet newsprint is a must. Also a bullet with proven expansion qualities for the game to be hunted should be shot into the same medium to give a "reference" as to expansion and penetration.

Conversely; as I've said, hard cast SWCs or WFN bullets also kill well. I've used them and will no doubt use them again. I just prefer soft cast HP or SWC cast bllets for hunting if I've time to make them correctly so expansion is correct. I don't think there's a right or wrong choice if the correct bullet of any of them is used with the correct alloy......an you put that bullet in the right place on game which is most important:drinks:

Larry Gibson

[x101airborne]

I am by no means a seasoned veteran of casting or really deer hunting with a pistol for that matter, but I can tell you that the 44 SWC is a fine boolit for deer and such with a nice flat trajectory, good wound channel (on pigs), and VERY adequate bone crushing power. I have used them from three different pistols and two rifles for piggy punishers and they work. No better than some but much better than most. My 180 grain 30-06 jacketed ruins more meat and kills no quicker than my 44 mag. If I may suggest, especially for ranges under 100 yards, load to just around 1000 fps and get a REALLY accurate load. Then practice lots and get to where you can hit an orange or an apple at your hunting ranges. One 20 pound bag of oranges took me from an average pistol shooter at range to a better than most shooter. I regularly kill piggys out to 125 yards or so with mostly one or two shots. And I have hit some big-uns! If I cant plant that 260 grainer through both shoulders, it is out of range. My oldest son and I both hunt with plain base 44 mags made of air cooled WW and we have not lost an animal YET. (Knock on wood)

[44man]

Yep Larry, the darn 45-70 will never go away! [smilie=s:
We always agree too and that is from experience and sometimes a lot of meat strewn through the woods! :veryconfu It just gets hard to explain that a harder boolit can work--BUT, not everywhere.
A smaller hollow point would be nice but I don't have a mold and used Babore's boolit and could only say WOW, what a mess. Who would think a revolver could do that?
I did the same as you, aimed just behind the shoulder but she was turned enough that the off shoulder went by by.
Both of us have preached a long time to choose a boolit with as much care as you would a jacketed.
I get awful long winded though! :coffee:

[Swede44mag]

I shot plumb through a nice size doe a few years ago with my S&W 44mag shooting 240gr WW at 1000fps the deer ran cross-ways in front of me I shot for center and it went about 20ft DRT. I don't want to ruin my pistols shootin the hottest load when 1000fps will do the job.