Ed's Red

[161]

Made my first patch last night. Found everything except Lanolin at Wal-Mart. I have a quart of Hoppes 9 under the bench. I read somewhere never to mix cleaning solvents. They where talking about copper solvents. Is there anything in these 2 solvents that would not get along with each other?

[Tatume]

The most common warning is to not mix household cleaners. If one of them contains clorine and the other ammonia, it can result in the release of clorine gas, which is quite poisonous.

[milprileb]

I have tried mixing Hoppes 50 50 with Kroil, CLP and Ballistol and saw no improvement or reason to continue to do so. THere is a old myth on the CMP boards that won't die : its that 50 50 Hoppes Kroil is the Ducks Guts for cleaning Garand rifles. I think that is mostly and definitely a fact between the ears and not happening in any Garand rifle bores.

That said: I see NO LOVE to mixing Eds Red with Hoppes. I could see using Eds to clean out powder fouling and then apply Hoppes in a secondary phase to mildly attack copper deposits and do a extra powder fouling clean out.

I have gone to Ballistol for all general cleaning of weapons except AR type (CLP was made for them). IF I want attack copper: I use a product purpose made for that and the best I have found is Patch Out (Midway has it).

Sweets: I retired it as its ineffective compared to Patch Out and a PITA to use. Gotta rod the barrel to make it work and Patch Out just needs to be wetted inside a bore to work.

Also: Sweets has ammonia in it and stinks and can etch bores.

If there is one thing I would never mix, its Sweets and anything on the planet.

[colt 357]

I pretty must just use ed's red without actone. Have a bottle of hoppes just incase i need it but haven't used it all summer. ed's red works great for me.

[geargnasher]

Ed's Red works because it contains two polar solvents and two non-polar solvents. I don't screw with it other than to add more acetone when needed, since it evaporates off pretty fast every time you open the container. Acetone is the optional ingredient.

Most any good solvent will soften and remove powder fouling, there is no "magic" formula, but some do work better than others.

Gear

[kywoodwrkr]

I have gone to Ballistol for all general cleaning of weapons except AR type (CLP was made for them). IF I want attack copper: I use a product purpose made for that and the best I have found is Patch Out (Midway has it).

After cleaning smoke residue from everything in a house, I'm sold on Ballistol. The pure stuff.
5 gallon can from Wisemans($215) and you can clean a bunch of junk. Harmless on leather, wood, metals, plastics etc etc.
WW I(black powder) German bore cleaner. Still a very viable commodity. Oh, and very gentle on delicate measuring instruments.
YMMV

[Dannix]

I'm using Ed Red without Lanolin (And the Acetone is probably mostly evaporated by this point, even though I use a glass bottle with a small lid. It's a 2 year old batch).

I don't seem to have gone afoul with the sans-Lanolin route, but I'm willing to be enlightened in how that may be a foolish route to take...

I lube my guns with grease, Shooters Choice at the moment.

[462]

I don't add acetone nor lanolin. My understanding is that acetone aids in plastic removal and lanolin is used as a hand conditioner.

[dromia]

I use Eds Red for all general cleaning, I will top up with Acetone if I need it to be a bit more agressive.

If dealing with copper fouling then then I alternate between Eds Red and houshold ammonia patch and patch about. I let the solutions soak for up to 10 minutes and then swab dry and apply the next.

I like patch out for really dirty old barrels and when I am in a hurry, good stuff but pricey

[Shiloh]

You really don't need the lanolin. The acetone is for if you are removing wad fouling.
As previously stated, it will evaporate off if the container is left open.

Shiloh

[milprileb]

There is a element here worth mentioning: acetone.

I used stuff that does not harm plastic, polymer, wood finishes. I would
avoid acetone for that reason.

I do see after many years that CLP does degrade my Hogue and Packmyer rubber
grips.

Whether Eds Red is a issue with this concern is unknown. I sort of think it is not but I bring it up for your attention.

Todate: Ballistol has been good on about anything and harms nothing. I still use CLP on AR weapons as its purpose made for them. Otherwise not on anything else.

[btroj]

I may well be the only guy here who doesn't like Ed's red. I have a quart I was given. I just can't get excited about it. Dries out my skin worse than other solvents, stinks to high heaven, and isn't any better than other solvents. I also don't like the fact it is so thin.
For the small amount of solvent I use in a year I will buy something I like. I can go 2 or 3 years on a pint of solvent so the cost is minimal.
If I as going to use it I would not add the acetone. Too volatile and is harsh on so many plastics. I also doubt it does much to eliminate any fouling other than maybe helping dissolve bullet lube.

[milprileb]

I put Eds Red up there with Marvel Mystery Oil. Probably does no harm but I will pass on the stuff.

[jandbn]

I don't add acetone nor lanolin. My understanding is that acetone aids in plastic removal and lanolin is used as a hand conditioner.

462,

When delving into the ingredients of Felix Lube, I was quite intrigued by Lanolin uses. Although not for cleaning purposes, one of its many uses sort of caught me by surprise. Lanolin is use to help protect ship ballast tanks from salt water (http://www.lanolin.com/lanolin-for-industrial-applications.html) which equates to protecting a firearm's bore from rusting. Felix knew what he doing when using lanolin! I've also used Lanolin mixed 1 part to 10 parts alcohol sprayed on boolits to size them as it is also a lubricant.

[btroj]

Lanolin in lube is used far more to add a level of stickiness than to protect a bore from rust.

[res45]

Here is the formula/formulas and it's use straight from Mr. Harris. I've used the basic formula no Lanolin for a couple years now,the only other cleaner I've needed is household ammonia for copper removal.

http://home.comcast.net/~dsmjd/tux/dsmjd/tech/eds_red.htm

[Charlie in Co]

I've used Ed's Red (mixed per instructions but without lanolin) till the patches came out relatively clean. I then used Shooter's Choice / Kroil mixed 50/50. The first patch with SC/K came out black. This test was repeated on several rifles and the results were always the same. I don't think Ed's Red is anywhere as good as SC/Kroil and will not use it anymore.

[MikeS]

... I still use CLP on AR weapons as its purpose made for them. Otherwise not on anything else.

Ok, I'm kind of curious, what's SO different about an AR that it needs it's own special cleaner? Isn't an AR just another auto/semi auto rifle?

[btroj]

Ok, I'm kind of curious, what's SO different about an AR that it needs it's own special cleaner? Isn't an AR just another auto/semi auto rifle?

To me, nothing. I always clean mine like any other gun. When I was shooting NRA high-power I used lots of CLP to lune my AR after cleaning but it got clean with shooters choice usually.

Some people just like to use what the military uses I suppose. Nothing wrong with it, just not what I chose to use.

[milprileb]

Lads, Eds Red is not a lubricant, its a home made solvent. Breakfree is a lubricant and made for AR weapons and is the SOP for the military to maintain its weapons: cleaning and lubing them.

Thus: If you want a cleaner: the field is wide open but the lube for AR weapons is CLP.

Can you use CLP for anything: yes but its poor on taking copper out of bores and on some stock finishes and rubber grips: it will degrade them. It was purpose made for M16 rifle. It can be made to work as a solvent in any weapon and lubricant and as a rust preventative agent.

If your Eds Red has acetone in the mix: you can do damage to finishes and rubber grips over time. If no acetone, Eds may be just fine for
general cleaning.

I buy Ballistol at $6 per 16 oz bottle. I use 1 bottle every 3 months and am good with it as a general purpose cleaner and rust preventative product for pistols and rifles (but not AR type rifles). I don't use Ballistol as a lube for any pistol or rifle. I use Militech grease.

Solvents ain't rust preventers and Solvents ain't lubricants. No one product does it all: you need solvents and copper bore cleaners and lubricants

[Shiloh]

The ATF in Ed's Red acts as a lubricant. I have specific lubricants like CLP, Tetra grease and lube,
and even 3-1 oil. Ed's Red will work in a pinch.

Shiloh

[jandbn]

Results of the "Slick Test" for lubricity on Castpics (http://www.castpics.net/subsite/Lube/SlickTest.html) subjectively shows CLP to be a good lube. (I was surprised by Lee Case Lube-Lanolin). I don't recognize any of the lubes that were tested as being cleaners other than CLP.

[milprileb]

While ATF in Eds Red has some lubrication capacity, I don't think its the reason folks make this stuff, its the solvent aspect. THat said, there is no debate from me that ATF is highly detergent.

So that said, and putting lubrication out of the discussion, has anyone used ATF with Hoppes or Shooters Choice 50 50 mix and did that make a better solvent ?

Just wondering

[geargnasher]

If anyone would bother to read the excellent article that Ed Harris himself wrote about his solvent, each ingredient is explained. If you've tried it and don't like it, no problemo, but don't have misconceptions about what it actually does. The ATF is a lubricant, and if you use Ed's to rinse out the parts of an action not easily cleaned without complex disassembly, it will leave enough film behind to keep oxygen off the metal under reasonable circumstances. Lanolin is a natural wax, and it's purpose in the concoction is to improve rust resistance. Acetone is for dissolving plastic fouling and aids in penetrating carbon fouling, the other solvents do the same and remove old grease well. Most gun actions require additional lube after cleaning with Ed's, but it isn't essential for short-term function.

IMO there is no universal best cleaner/lube. There are cleaners and there are lubricants. One of the best cleaners is carburetor cleaner, but it will strip the metal and allow it to flash-rust. One of the best lubricants is two-cycle engine oil, but it isn't much of a solvent. Like most things, one-size-fits-all doesn't.

I use lots of Ed's as a regular maintenance wash and bore cleaner, it is cheap and I can soak things like assembled metal autopistol frames and revolver cylinders in it, brush, rinse and blow dry with compressed air and it speeds the cleaning process greatly. YMMV.

Gear

[milprileb]

Gear: if you did not use Eds Red, what would you be using ?

Whats wrong with Varsol solvent. If we are talking cleaning (not lubrication). It used to be pretty cheap when I was hot rodding cars and used it for cleaning parts.

Granted: Varsol can harm plastic grips and some other things. But acetone in Eds would as well.

The complete elimination of using WD 40 as a pure solvent seems universal , I assume that it gums things up?

[462]

In post number 8, I wrote ". . .lanolin is used as a hand conditioner."

I stand corrected. I've read Ed's article several times, but my memory isn't what it used to be.

[jonk]

Personally I wear nitrile gloves when cleaning my guns as I don't like to soak my hands in petroleum base products, acetone, etc. if I don't have to, not to mention the lead residue in the gun barrel to boot.

That said, I think Ed's is....... probably the best liquid carbon remover I've used, though it does very little for metal fouling. The penetrating action of the acetone/transmission fluid will get under some lead fouling but that's about it. In general I prefer Wipe Out or Hoppes foaming cleaner- fill the bore once, come back a few hours later, a few dry patches and light oil and you are done. However those products are far more costly than Ed's and as a result I don't use them as much, other than the occasional super cleaning.

The lanolin is good stuff, I sometimes leave out the acetone though.

[725]

Ed's Red works for me for general cleanings.
Janitorial strength ammonia gets my copper off, quickly followed by Ed's or other oil.
I like fully synthetic motor oil for final cleaning and storage.
Lanolin can be found in Wal-Mart over in the maternity section. aka "nipple cream" (if you can bring yourself to ask the nice sales girl to find it for you.)

[Nueces]

...and maybe demonstrate it. :mrgreen:

I've just started using Ed's Red, mixed without the acetone and with only 2 ounces of lanolin, vice the 12 called for in a three quart mix.

I had been using Kroil and have been very impressed with the thorough cleaning it gets me on revolvers. But it smells up the shop and dries my hands. Ed's Red appears to clean as well, smells better (and the odor doesn't linger like that of Kroil) and the bit of lanolin provides a nice thin coat on metal, while leaving my hands feeling like I've used a lotion.

I love the stuff. The old Hoppe's #9 is now opened only for a whiff of nostalgia.

Mark

By the way, all the local fire evacuations have been cancelled out west of Austin, so I can unpack the guns. Everyone else OK?

[geargnasher]

Drove through a curtain of smoke carried by a strong southwest wind the whole way from Victoria to San Antonio on US 87 Monday, clear and cool here in Kerrville today, hope Perry calls out the big guns before any more houses get torched. Last count was over 500 homes burned.

I'm sure Ranch Dog's sinuses are giving him fits, visibility was less than a mile in his area yesterday, but there were some local fires in the area also.

Gear

[Me not you]

"The complete elimination of using WD 40 as a pure solvent seems universal , I assume that it gums things up?"

Apparently WD-40 kills primers, de-activating ammunition. I don't use it for that reason.

[geargnasher]

WD-40 was only good for two things, and only one since the propane propellant was removed. It used to make an excellent starting "fluid" since the propane provided fuel and the other stuff a top-engine lube to avoid dry starts caused by ether. Nowdays the starting fluids contain only 50% ether or so and have lubricants in them, and WD-40 uses CO2 for propellant. WD-40 is pretty good at its intended purpose of temporarily dispersing water from surfaces, but pretty much sucks at anything else, since it was not designed to be a lubricant or a solvent.

Gear

[Recluse]

I may well be the only guy here who doesn't like Ed's red. I have a quart I was given. I just can't get excited about it. Dries out my skin worse than other solvents, stinks to high heaven, and isn't any better than other solvents. I also don't like the fact it is so thin.

Nope, you're not alone.

I made up a batch and used it for a while and did not find one single advantage to it while finding several (minor) disadvantages.

But that's just me, and as usual, I'm about the result more than the method or the tool. For those folks who have good luck with Ed's Red, I'm all for them. It's just not for me.

:coffee:

[Dannix]

Ed's Red is all I know as, being a cheapskate, that's what I started with.

Recluse, could you cite the several (minor) disadvantages you found and what you prefer to use instead of Ed's Red? I sure would appreciate the insight, and I'm sure others as well.

[geargnasher]

You know what would REALLY kick butt? BENZENE. Like I'm told the original Hoppe's #9 contained. It has the unfortunate disadvantage of causing cancer, birth defects, and reproductive harm (but only in California, right? :grin:).

Gear

[462]

". . . (but only in California, right? )."

Now, Gear. . . :-)

[geargnasher]

[smilie=l: That's what all the labels say: This product contains chemicals known in the State of California to..... so either the rest of the states are ignoring what you guys already know, or Californians have a particularly low resistance to cell mutation....:kidding:

Gear

[462]

A certain segment of California's population does, indeed, have a very low resistance to cell mutation, and they've been working out of a rather stately, gold-domed building in Sacramento for the last 50 years.

Since you are a mechanic, you'd be amazed by the many signs that automobile garages are required to post. A good friend owned a one-man garage, specializing in ALFA-Romeos. About 10-years ago, he called it quits, because of all the environmental regulations and bureaucratic red tape he had to comply with.

[ElDorado]

[smilie=l: That's what all the labels say: This product contains chemicals known in the State of California to..... so either the rest of the states are ignoring what you guys already know, or Californians have a particularly low resistance to cell mutation....:kidding:

Gear

It even says that on the brass weights for bass rigs down at wal-mart. That's the kind of garbage initiatives we waste our time on out here.

Balanced budget? No.

Part-time legislature? No.

Infusing the state with the knowledge that everything causes cancer and birth defects? We'll take it!

It's embarrassing to realize those labels are seen worldwide and show everyone what a bunch of ninnies we have out here.

[alamogunr]

I've posted before in other threads about Ed's Red that there is another homemade cleaner that is very similar. Steve Hurst published the recipe several years ago. The biggest difference that this non-chemist could see was the use of LLA instead of lanolin. I made up a recipe since I have a lot of Alox 606-something or other. I don't see much difference. I don't use either that or Ed's Red as a rust preventive. I've settled on RIG as my rust preventive for long term storage.

As a side note, I'm not likely to run out of either Ed's Red or Steve's Squeeze in my lifetime. And I use either in other applications such as lubricant for the occasional times I have to drill steel or remove oily gunk on tools or other items that I need to clean.

[161]

Well I've had a few weeks to use ER. My opinion is it works no better and no worse than Hoppe's. About $25.00 to make a gallon of ER and $17.00 for a quart of Hoppe's. I'll make more.

[GabbyM]

What I’m fuddling around with now is storage containers.
For my shooting box I’ve pressed into service a short fat recycled pimento jar. Pretty handy with it’s wide mouth I can dip a patch in. Not prone to tip over. Big question is if the white rubber gasket material in the lid will dissolve after a while.

For three days now I’ve had a bread yeast jar with a splash of Acetone and K-1 to see if the seal will hold. Jar is setting upside down to give the lid a soak. It’s swelled up a bit but hasn’t turned to gum.

For the side product Ed's Red compatible oil. 50/50 ATF/ K-1 kerosene. I just used one of the plastic Sinclair flip spout bottles and a military lube bottle. I think they are both HDPE. I’ve had stuff in those before that caused them to collapse and give way right in my shooting box. After a few weeks to work. Can’t recall if it was bore solvent or KROIL or both. All were the short Sinclair bottles which are not treated like the tall bottles they sell. None of that type plastic will hold acetone.

So what do you all carry your ER in?

[cbrick]

If anyone would bother to read the excellent article that Ed Harris himself wrote about his solvent, each ingredient is explained.

Gear


By C.E. ''Ed'' Harris

http://www.lasc.us/Eds%20Red.pdf

Rick

[462]

I willingly admit to being frugal, but, please, don't imply that I'm cheap. There is a difference.

I reckon that if ATF lubes and keeps my transmissions operating properly, it'll do the same for my guns. If Mr. Hatcher and Mr. Harris say that ATF works, well, that's good enough for me.

[Char-Gar]

I store the bulk Ed's Red in a metal can. I pour up a little at a time in a Sinclair flip top solvent bottled. I have had it in one of these bottles for many years with no problems.

I don't think anybody has ever said Ed's Red is a miracle product. It is as good as any and better than some at what it does. The price is what makes it so good for those of us who shoot allot.

It just finished honing a couple of knives on an Arkansas stone, and I used ER as a fluid. It works great in this role also.

I have never tried to use it as a gun lubricant so I don't know how that works. I also keep my lubricants on the frugal side as well. I use three;

1. Mobil Velocite No 10 Spindle oil
2. Mobile Vactra 2 Way oil.

I buy both of these by the gallon for use on my lathe and they work well for different application on guns.

3. I also have a couple of 1 lbs cans of USGI rifle grease that I use, if I need a grease. This stuff was developed for use on the Garand and M1 carbine during WWII and was the mainstay of the military for a generation thereafter. It is good stuff.

I am a simple sort of fellow who tries to keep things simple and cheap. I don't get to deep into the science of lubrication, but just use what works. The above works for me.

[alamogunr]

So what do you all carry your ER in?

I don't carry it anywhere. I leave it in the shop stored in an HDPE jug that originally held grape juice. To protect the plastic screw top, I use a couple of thicknesses of aluminum foil and screw the top over the foil.

I suspect that the volatile acetone has long ago evaporated. It has been there 3-4 years and the jug has not failed yet. I don't recommend doing as I do, since others have advised against it.

[pdawg_shooter]

I make my EDs out of ATF, Kroil, and mineral spirits, in equal amounts. Been working for me for over 40 years, see no reason to change now. I use CLP for general lube and Mobil Syn. grease for high pressure-high wear points. Hey, if it aint broke dont mess with it.

[The Virginian]

I think that Ed's Red used as a general solvent to cut through powder residue and general cleaning of the bore when shooting lead bullets is great and very economical. To cut through copper jacket fouling I use Shooter's Choice or Hoppes, followed by a cleaning with Ed's Red. I use CorrosionX to wipe down and prevent rust and some commerical automovtive grease and oils to lube certain points. On very old antique or relic type guns I preserve them with Jojoba oil and shark's liver oil mixed 50/50 which is basically the modern equivelant of Sperm Whale oil.

[geargnasher]

I store Ed's Red in a clear glass jug with a metal screw-on cap, the kind of jug that cheap wine comes in. I made a gasket for the cap out of a disc cut from the side of a plastic milk jug.

For dispensing, I use glass olive oil bottles with the plastic insert in the opening that serves both as a restrictor and a gasket for the metal lid. I have several ones of several sizes for around the gun room and one for the range kit. The seal provided by these will tolerate and contain the acetone fumes.

Gear

[popper]

I use a used plastic coke bottle, acetone comes in a plastic bottle. ATF and kerosine are both lubricating and dissolving(organic only)agents, as well as surfactants. Water is even a solvent and lubricator for certain materials.

[Shuz]

I store and use my Ed's Red in a small glass medicine bottle that has an eye dropper incorporated with the top. This enables me to dispense just the right amount on a patch or rag, and prevents contamination and some evaporation. I fill the little bugger with a mighty small funnel. I keep the "master" supply in a glass bottle and only make up about 8 ounces at a time.

[The Virginian]

I have found that most people that do not like Ed's Red do not like the fact it does not smell like Hoppe's #9 and that it is not a copper solvent. I also think that some folks think if they spend more on solvents and oils that they will get better performance, but I doubt it is demonstratable in the real world. ER works great on everything I use it on, tools, auto parts, door hinges, locks and of course fine firearms.

[Elkins45]

I don't know that anyone uses ER strictly for it's amazing properties. THey typically use it because it's good enough and is considerably less expensive if you use a lot of bore solvent.

My only criticism of it is that without the acetone it looks exactly like my homemade red lube that I've been using now for 20+ years, so I have to label the bottles carefully. An old National Guard armorer who used to shoot where I did told me this formula was all he had used for years:

2 parts ATF
1 part Mobil 1 synthetic oil
1 part STP engine treatment

I've yet to find a better general purpose lubricant. I have since been told that power steering fluid is essentially ATF without the dye, so my last batch isn't red. It seems to work just as well but now it doesn't stain white stuff (like your shirt) as badly.

[uscra112]

I store my main supply of E.R. in a steel gallon can that acetone came from Lowes in. If it'll keep straight acetone from evaporating, I reckon it'll hold the E.R. The "bench bottle" for E.R. is a recycled 16 oz. plastic nail polish remover bottle. What's the main ingredient of nail polish remover again? Then I have a tiny applicator bottle that holds only an ounce or so. It gets filled at the start of a cleaning session, then dumped back into the bench bottle at the end, because it's not capable of retaining the acetone.

For my money, E.R. does everything necessary for lead boolit rifles. There's a Hoppe's and Shooter's choice on the bench for copper when there's copper to be cleaned out. Can't say which is better.

BTW some bright individual looked up and published the MSDS for WD-40. Main ingredient? Stoddard solvent (Varsol).

Dittos on the STP ingredient. The stuff clings like crazy and lasts for years. Used a formula like that as "assembly lube" when I was building motorcycles. There's 2-stroke cranks around here that got coated with it fifteen years ago that are still rust free, despite having been in unsealed plastic bags piled in unsealed Sterilite bins that have lived in unheated barns all that time. I just happen to have unearthed one of those to find a part for a friend last fall.