AA 1680 question

[Newtire]

I have a jug of AA1680 and another board has a series of .30-06 loads with a Lee 180R and 23-25 grains. Has anyone used something like this or is this just asking for some kind of SEE reaction? They all said it was a great load so would like to try it if it's safe. anyone have any ideas?

[felix]

Newtire, you are on thin ice here. Might not happen in 100 years. But then, is it year 100? Use some kind of case filling loose and light filler. ... felix

[Treeman]

Felix, 1680 is not a "slow" powder- why are you concerned about secondary excursion/explosive effects?

[felix]

It is a function of left over space in the case. If that powder contained a good amount of nitroglycerin, I would be a whole lot less nervous. This is one major reason why AA raised their 5744 from 10 percent to 20 percent and kept the deterrent about the same. 2400 has 10 percent, and 4227 none. Their deterrents are low in amount/type, as opposed to 680,820. Just makes me worried, that's all. ... felix

[Treeman]

I guess I'v ebeen out of the loop for too long. Twenty years ago the only warnings I read about SEE were all related to powders 'slower" than 4064.

[leftiye]

FWIW in the 70s there were see's that blew up .38 Special target revolters with about 2 grains of Bullseye. Back then, bullseye was supposed tobe THE fastest powder.

I've put double charges of blue dot through an L- frame (not on purpose) with no discernable damage. That's probably in the 50000 psi range. These blown up revolters had to be much higher in pressure than that.

Theory was that the primer pushed the boolit into the bore, where it stopped and now became a bore obstruction, then the powder ignited and blew up the gun.

Felix seems to have it right , too much room, faulty ignition- slow OR fast powder.

[leftiye]

That being said, 1680 is a great magnum (slow) pistol powder in my .454 Casuul. that probably makes it plenty fast to be used in the type of load that everyone puts behind medium velocity cast bullets (but it doo like the higher pressures).

I'd proceed with prudence, maybe find loads with comparable powders to get a place to start, maybe get someone to run one of those computer guestimations to get an idea where to start.


In light of what has been said, too low of pressures is worse than too high. The first will maybe ruin your gun (and maybe you), the second will probably only ruin your accuracy.

[Bass Ackward]

I guess I'v ebeen out of the loop for too long. Twenty years ago the only warnings I read about SEE were all related to powders 'slower" than 4064.


Tree,

I seem to remember about reading back then not to use H-110 or 296 in reduced amounts for that reason.

The understanding becomes difficult because we always talk of slow powders. In some case designs, 4064 can be a fairly fast powder. The correct definition is slow powders for a particular caliber or case design. While 2400 would be a fairly fast powder for a 30-06, it would be slow for a 38 Special.

[Newtire]

Thanks all!
I just noticed how little case space it took up. To tell you the truth, I didn't have so good an understanding of what SEE really was until now. Have used lots of shotgun powder loads in cast before but they light off easily for the most part maybe is why we get away with it. The filler and a light "factory crimp" ought to hedge the bet a little I'd guess.
As per usual, thanks a lot!

[Treeman]

Bass, You are correct of course. Th ewarnings were about powders "slow for application" the 4064 reference was actually to powders fior use in "full size" rifle cartridges.

Regarding 2 gr. Bullseye blowing up a 38special......Unless it was done under controlled lab conditions I don't believe it ever occurred as a simple SEE.... Unintentional overcharge... maybe. Prior squib lodging a bullet in the throat followed by light charge into the obstruction-maybe. I think most of those "safe charge of bullseye" blow up stories were prior bore obstructions.

Newtire, The case fillers raise a whole 'nother problem-Documented cases of barrel and chamber "ringing".

[felix]

Treeman, DO believe it!!!!!!!!!! ... felix

[felix]

And, yes, you ALWAYS chance a ringing condition with any kind of substance that won't get out of the way in time. This is a problem we face when we use too much of a faster powder under a very slow powder. That is why we like to advocate using something that is easily ignited and fairly slow at the same time when making up duplex loads. ... felix

[Wally]

I have about 1/2 a pound to use up--I tried to use for the.30 M-1 Carbine and it didn't work out---would like to use in my .44 Magnum carbine with a 260 grain SWC CB..the case will hold about 24 grains (filled up to the base of the inserted bullet) but I can find no loading data..has anyone tried this load?

Thanks...

[Baron von Trollwhack]

It has been several years but Accurate advised me it would be safe but slow. Call them. BvT

[S.R.Custom]

1680 is a ball powder, particularly well suited for oversized magnum pistol cartridges like the SuperMags. And as a ball powder, it's only slightly less ornery than 296 or 110 when used in low loading density scenarios.

As for 'regular' magnum cartridges, it's so slow you can't get enough 1680 in a .44 Mag case to be worthwhile. It's like using 296 in a 9mm Luger. (BTDT-- I've done both those experiments.)

[Boerrancher]

AA1680 from what I was told was designed to be used in the 7.62X39 case capacity rifles which means it should work well in 30-30's, and be a slow burner for heavy boolits for the 35 Remington. I use it in my custom built 25-20 with 75 and 87 gr SP condom bullets. I have shot a case full of it, 21 grs, to be exact in my 357 mag rifle. It worked kinda, but like Supermag said, "it's so slow you cant get enough 1680 in a ...case to be worth while. I think 4227 would have been a better powder for what I was doing with the 357.

Based on my limited experiences with it, I am not sure I would load it in my 03-A3 and shoot it. I tend to agree with Felix. I am afraid it may cause problems. As far as firearms being ruined by undercharges of certain powders, I have seen it, esp with those that are position sensitive.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[S.R.Custom]

AA1680 from what I was told was designed to be used in the 7.62X39 case capacity rifles which means it should work well in 30-30's, and be a slow burner for heavy boolits for the 35 Remington.

1680 is indeed a performer in the 7.62 x 39, as said cartridge is a stumpy little high pressure round, not unlike the SuperMags.

I would not, however, be inclined to use it in the 30-30 or 35 Remington. 1680 is slow for a pistol powder, but very fast for a rifle powder; it's a bit slower than 4227, but quite a bit faster than 4198. When loaded to a sufficient density to assure reliable ignition in those two relatively cavernous cartridges, I'd think the pressures would be much too high.

[yondering]

I use A1680 in my 22 Hornet, but like SuperMag said, it's a bit slow. A case full (yes, to the top, 14.5gr) under a 40gr V-Max is still 300fps slower than a normal H110 load. It also gives a nice gentle start for the Hornet, and gives me the best accuracy of anything I've tried in that little case.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup and it worked fine. use a 350 cci though or you wont get it to burn well.
I have about 1/2 a pound to use up--I tried to use for the.30 M-1 Carbine and it didn't work out---would like to use in my .44 Magnum carbine with a 260 grain SWC CB..the case will hold about 24 grains (filled up to the base of the inserted bullet) but I can find no loading data..has anyone tried this load?

Thanks...

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Since 25-20 was mentioned, AA1680, AA2200, and AA2015, have been wonderfully accurate in my Marlin at the case full or slightly less (under the seated 257420 or the GB bullet) level, Going back to AA 1680 and the 44 M I got my best accuracy results at or near the 1000 fps level in a Marlin. BvT

[Dark Helmet]

Newtire, do you have a 221 Fireball by chance; WW680/WC680/AA1680 are good choices.
I'm also trying it out in 32 H&R behind the 314-120RF as an understudy to a 327 Fed Mag.

[Missouri_Mule]

I would be interested in what you find out about the .32. I have a couple of 8lb jugs of WC680. I also have a .32 H&R Single Six.

[DonH]

[QUOTE=leftiye;141645]FWIW in the 70s there were see's that blew up .38 Special target revolters with about 2 grains of Bullseye. Back then, bullseye was supposed tobe THE fastest powder.

QUOTE]

Actually the load in question was 2.7 gr Bullseye under 148 gr wadcutter bullet. This was (is?) the "standard" .38 Spl load for NRA bullseye and PPC competition. One can believe what they wish and if fearful I guess probably should not use the load for their own peace of mind. With all respect to Felix, I have no fear of using it! I am neither reckless nor foolhardy about reloading. Having shot bullseye for nearly 30 years, I and nearly everyone I knew who shot .38 Spl. revolvers used the load (some used 700X, etc.) .
This load was so widely used that NRA had very extensive lab testing done and the so-called SEE never occurred. What DID duplicate the carnage attributed to SEE was a double 2.7 gr charge of Bullseye under the 148 gr wadcutter bullet. .38 Spl target ammunition was widely loaded on Star progressive loaders in those days and it was determined in testing and experimentation that mis-manipulation of the Star could cause it to drop double charges of powder. My apologies for these OT comments.

BTW, I have used WC 680 for .2520 WCF with J-word bullets with great success. 2200 fps or so with a 60 gr bullet with accuracy. Great for decapitating critters like prairie dogs.