Difficulty seating cast bullets in 380

[nhopper]

I'm having a heck of a time seating cast boolits evenly. I am loading a 95 grain MBC LRN in a 380. I have sorted headstamp range brass which seems to greatly help in consistency.

Here's the issue I'm having: I have significant trouble getting the bullet to seat without getting off center. The first 100 of these I loaded, I know the cases were not expanded sufficiently and thus, the bullet became the expander. It resulted in some bulging, and the bullet axis was not square.

When I went to the range, you'd think I was shooting a shotgun.

I went back home, and today loaded up another 100 using similar brass. This time, I pushed the expander almost as deep as it would go. The bullets fit into the expanded case mouth, but if I press them into the seater / crimp die with any more than the very teensiest skew, they crimp crooked. I took a few and rolled them on the table. It was easy to see the bullet wobble to and fro which you know is just horrible for accuracy.

My dies are the Lee pistol dies. I am crimping only the very least amount to remove the case bell. COL on this round is .970.

What am I missing here?

[Hang Fire]

I don't mess much with the .380, but the wife shoots and loads for her two. She only uses a Lee Hand Press, (?) just checked a box of her cast reloads and they look great. She said she has never had a problem as you described.

[bobthenailer]

Ive loaded the 380 and cast for over 30 years with no problems ! a possible problem is theres something wrong with youre seating die or seating stem or possibley there is some bullet lube or lead shavings or some other material in your seating stem causing the bullets to seat off center, which is a problem with all bullet seaters with cast bullets , they just need taken apart to cleaned out the build up once in awhile.

[Calamity Jake]

One other problem is that the case wall is thinner on one side than the other, this causes the case to be pushed to one side when expanded so when seating the boolit it also is pushed to one side.

One way to control the push is to expand about half of the depth wanted then rotate the case and finish expanding.

Or as Bob says there could be expander/seater die problems.

[dragonrider]

What is the I.D. measurement of your cases before seating a boolit???

[nhopper]

What is the I.D. measurement of your cases before seating a boolit???

Depending on the brass, anywhere from .358 to .360. This was a grab bag of mixed head stamp I measured. The boolits measure .356 to .357 with most .356.

[Centaur 1]

I shoot more .380's with than all other calibers combined. I have the Ranch Dog TL358-100-RF and I shoot this boolit in .380, 9mm and .38 special. What I do to get good results is trim all my brass with the Lee case length gage so that all of my brass is consistent. Then I expand the case mouth with the Lee universal expanding die, I don't even use the expander die that comes with the set. By making sure that all of the cases are the same length, it ensures that every case is flared just enough to allow the boolit to be seated straight without shaving any lead. Make sure you have the proper bullet seating stem in your crimp die, with the proper one installed it should align the boolit and seat it straight.

[turbo1889]

If I were a betting man I would bet that the problem is not in your expanding die or your seating die but rather in your sizing die. Your sizing die is sizing your brass down way too small and that is why the expander/belling die has to work so hard to open the mouth back up in order to allow the boolit to be seated and this results in a case mouth that is funnel shaped and overworked which allows the boolit to tip to the side and or expand the case mouth unevenly.

I have had this problem myself with the 380 cartridge.

If you have them try using 9mm/38-super/38-spl./etc. case sizing dies instead of your 380 sizing die (continue to use the shell holder from the 380 die set) in an effort to find a sizing die that will size our case down just enough to give you just enough neck tension and that is it. The idea being that if your sizer die is sizing down your brass just enough and not too much all your expander die needs to do is just barely bell the mouth and that is all giving you a nice smoothly seating boolit with just enough neck tension. A light crimp to take out the bell on the mouth and just kiss the boolit and your loads will turn out beautifully.

[nhopper]

rTried a few of the suggestions listed here. I loaded about 200 more rounds with the cast boolits.

First, I expanded them almost as much as the die would do it.

Second, I adjusted the crimp back a little bit. Since it crimps on the way into the seater die, I considered that perhaps there was too much pressure which inhibited definitive seating of the boolit square with the case.

Third, and most importantly, I pulled the press lever very slowly. Gentle. Smooth. Like melted buttah. That was the biggest factor.

I believe the included expander die is not well suited to cast products. It bells the case far too much at the mouth and not nearly enough as the case deepens. It's a compromise that fails. I'll look into the universal expander die. The question I have for Lee Products is, if this is truly a "universal expander" then why not include said universal expander with all products instead of the current not universal expander?

With respect to the sizing die downsizing the case too much, this is a very interesting theory that I have not considered. I do not have access to a 9mm or 38 spl die, but I might be able beg or borrow one. In reference to the sizing, why full length resize at all? If I am shooting my own brass in my own gun, the brass will not expand to any larger than the chamber anyway. So why full length resize at all.

Thank you for the suggestions thus far.

[Jailer]

Second, I adjusted the crimp back a little bit. Since it crimps on the way into the seater die, I considered that perhaps there was too much pressure which inhibited definitive seating of the boolit square with the case.





That tidbit quoted above looks to be your problem. Try seating and crimping in a separate step.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Jailer gets the Bingo!

Randy

[nhopper]

That seems to have helped tremendously--- seating and crimping in seperate stages. I also took apart the seating die and noted some rough edges on the floating bullet seater. It was not finished well at all. Very rough. I don't know that this had anything to do with the off center bullets, but it bothers me a little.

You can cheat a little with plated and FMJ bullets in seating and crimping together because them seem a lot more slippery than cast.

Thanks for the help everyone.

[462]

nhopper,
Lee's mis-named Universal Expander Die is actually a Universal Flaring Die. It will do nothing more than the flaring die that came with your die set, other than give you the ability to flare almost all calibers. A much better tool is Lyman's M-die, because it was designed with cast boolits in mind. Do a site search or go to Lyman's web-site.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

462 and others told me about the Lyman "M" die. It works so much better than the Lee die did. This was for .38 and .357 rounds. I knocked the carbide sizing ring out of my LEE crimp die also. It was sizing down the diameter of my boolit while in the case.