lee 430 tumble lube swc possible problem?

[lukewmtdew]

new to the forum new to casting new to reloading! Any info would be much appreciated...

so I got my new 6 cavity mold cleaned it up with alcohol sooted it with a match started casting bullets dropping some looked good some looked bad some wrinkles whatever to be expected got through prob 200 bullets let them sit for a day started measuring the diameter in multiple places...hhhmmm .430 .433 .436 .439 .440 thought wow thought I'd be getting a little more even than this ended up measuring most of them some were better than others being .430-.435 around the base

my question is should I be worrying about this or just throw them all through the sizer (lee .430)and then take measurments?

also picked up a lee hardness tester measured the hardness ended up measuring at the softest of the scale

I used 60/40 solder bar melted down mixed about 8 - 1

[lukewmtdew]

oh yeah I'd also like to slug my barrel...

don't I want to know the diameter of the throat? I have a ruger srh...so I would need to insert the lead from the cylinder side and only push it in an inch or two? Then push it back out?

[evan price]

You need to slug each chamber. Open the cylinder and push a soft lead ball through each chamber. Then slug the barrel from the forcing cone. Your cylinders should be a bit larger than the barrel or else the cylinder will be undersizing the slug going into the barrel.

I would suspect you have a piece of lead on the face of the mold due to the ever increasing diameter.

I use the TL-429-240-SWC myself in my SRH cast from water quenched range scrap BHN 12 or thereabouts with a medium charge of Promo for 1000 fps. Great target load and easy to shoot especially in the huge heavy SRH.

[Bob Krack]

some wrinkles whatever to be expected got through prob 200 bullets let them sit for a day started measuring the diameter in multiple places...hhhmmm .430 .433 .436 .439 .440 thought wow thought I'd be getting a little more even than this ended up measuring most of them some were better than others being .430-.435 around the base

my question is should I be worrying about this or just throw them all through the sizer (lee .430)and then take measurements?
Luke,
First off it certainly looks like mould manipulation issues are in play here. Holding all 3 handles while pouring, maybe a speck of alloy somewhere between the block faces can cause evenly machined cavities to cast substantially different sizes.

Were it I, I would take a dozen or so at random from the 200 you cast and to each and every one:measure base dimensions, drive band dim. nearest the crimp groove, total length, weight to the 1/2 grain.

Record each dimension and measurement (diameters taken along casting seam and perpendicular to it).

Sometimes holding all three handles will give atrocious differences between cavities. Alloy speck between blocks can cause blocks to close at an angle, either lengthwise or heighthwise. If you find those differences through out the measured boolits, examine for mould manipulation. Another way is to carefully drop 6 boolits on a towel, then 6 more and compare #1 from first 6 to #1 of second 6 and so on. Bad moulds DO happen.

Now back to your question.

Like many here, I subscribe to the notion that if it is large enough to fill the grooves and if it will chamber, then go ahead and shoot it as is.

You will find some saying "always size'em", some will say "whatcha expect from those !@#@*! Lee molds"

Betcha there will be several other replies more helpful than this one.

Bob

[44man]

I don't have any 6 cavity molds so I don't know how they close but I also suspect something is not letting it close right.
I would not size a TL boolit much, you can wipe out the GG's.
I also think the SRH will be found to use .431" to .432" after you measure it. If it does, you can open the Lee die real easy and fast. I bought a bunch of them and have from .430" to .434" in .001" steps.
Let us know what it slugs out at.

[lukewmtdew]

so the chambers should not be hard to "slug" just throw an oversized piece of lead down each chamber...

still the forcing cone...do I push the piece of lead in to get the smallest diameter before the rifling then push it back out the way it came?



I might not have been clear here....the measurements .430-440 were the diameters as I was turning one bullet and measuring on the very back then maybe move onto the next one which would be .430-435 or somewhere in there...those measurments were telling me it was not

[lukewmtdew]

as concentric...

[lukewmtdew]

also as I was casting I did not have it close all the way so I had a bunch of boolits stuck together with lead n between t was pretty goofy....this happened pretty late in the casting though...


oh also once I get my bullets how I want them the only powder I have is h110 and this powder everywhere it says not to reduce very much is there another powder that I should try that has a broader range so I know how this lead will work? I did not water quench these bullets...maybe I should remelt some and water quench...maybe try that heat treating to get them extra hard...idk my understanding is h110 is used for pretty heavy loads....maybe I should just size all these boolits and hope for the best then load them up and see how they shoot! Lol

[44man]

H110 and 296 have starting loads so you can work for accuracy.
Do not go below a starting load.
Try the boolits before you do anything else, if groups are very large, then oven harden some and see if it helps.
Slugging the barrel is usually done from the muzzle on a revolver. There is a way to slug close to the muzzle and remove the slug so it can be compared to a slug pushed all the way through to see if there is a tight spot at the forcing cone.
You need to have a clean, oiled bore.
I do it by putting a long piece of hardwood across the recoil plate, drop in a brass rod almost as long as the barrel, then the slug. Use the board to push the slug back out the muzzle. Sometimes I need to tap on one end with a little hammer as I hold the other side. You might need help with this.
Use nothing but pure lead to slug, muzzle loader balls work great.

[lukewmtdew]

dangit the only muzzleloader balls i have are .50! maybe ill have to squish them a bit...

[lukewmtdew]

will the dimensions change after ive shot 1000 2000 10000 rds through the gun has anyone measured you think?

[runfiverun]

you can polish up a gun with lead.
using a higher antimony content alloy will speed up the process, antimony has dendrites that hang from the face of the boolit and it will leave a wash on the bbl but it will also scrape metal away from the bbl,throat,cylinder.
if you want to move things along use jaxketed and the h-110 it'll smooth things up faster but you really won't open up a cylinder throat 2 thousands with just a 2-3 thousand rounds.

keep your thumb off the sprue cutter and try again.

[EDK]

Like the man said, don't hold the sprue plate handle while casting. Also make sure that there is no lead, etc to keep the mould blocks from closing up. Do a search about BULLPLATE...a necessity for good boolits.

I'm taking the easy way on barrel polishing. I take a Q-tip and dab a bit of valve grinding compound in the forcing cone of the guns I'm going to shoot in a few minutes. It isn't as fast as fire lapping, but it is progressing. (You might want to do some searches on firelapping; Fermin Garza aka two dogs wrote an excellent article recently.)

Get another powder...I'd suggest HERCO, UNIQUE, HP38/231, or TITEGROUP and start out with the powder puff loads suggested in the cowboy action shooting area. I size to .432 for about a dozen VAQUEROS and three MARLIN Cowboy rifles that I have access to/cast boolits for. I'd also stick to magnum brass...it doesn't have to be loaded hot just because the casings say "magnum...." your gun, wrists, and cartridge casings will all last a lot longer!

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[lukewmtdew]

tried slugging today...used soft wooden dowel...kept cracking it...prob not a smart idea...*hangs head in shame* lmao maybe try and find 3/8 brass rod tomorrow

[44man]

will the dimensions change after ive shot 1000 2000 10000 rds through the gun has anyone measured you think?
If the cylinder is in line, not enough to measure. I am getting close to 62,000 heavy rounds through my SBH, losing count. The groove to groove is still .430".
I have seen the cone and rifling worn away on one side in less then 300 rounds because of out of alignment chambers.

[lukewmtdew]

I spose that the cyl being in line needs to be checked by a gunsmith?

[williamwaco]

First off it certainly looks like mould manipulation issues are in play here.

Bob



Luke, believe or not, just this morning I broke out my copy of that exact mold. It was brand new. I wanted to test it out and break it in, not really a production session.

After degreasing and drying three times ( I use 409 and very hot water.) I filled it ten times to preheat it. I then filled it 30 times to check fillout. I then smoked it and filled it 30 more times.

I now have two piles of 180 bullets each. I then measured 10 from each pile.

It is too much typing to enter all those numbers here but the two you should know are that the smallest diameter was .4297 and the largest diameter was .4335.

Each bullet was measured only on the base band. Each bullet was measured three times, once directly accross the seam and twice more one third turn away from the seam in both directions.

This means 60 measurements on 20 bullets.

The numbers you are reporting are much too large. It could be that something is preventing the mold from closing. Or, the face of your measuring tool could have something stuck to it.

If something is keeping the mold open far enough to produce a .440 diameter bullet I would expect bullets like that to have a very pronounced seam. ( In my experience the seam on Lee bullets is usually almost invisible. )

[lukewmtdew]

I was trying to hold all three handles I think I'm just gonna clean the face very well ad try casting again....i would zero the calipers every now and again...thats the thing I threw out the bullets ith a pronounced seam....idk

william waco just wondering but what alloy are you using?

[williamwaco]

william waco just wondering but what alloy are you using?




The alloy was reclaimed bullet cores from indoor ranges. Very clean and very soft. It had 2.5% tin added by weight. BNH of air cooled bullets is between 8 and 9.

[HORNET]

[QUOTE=lukewmtdew;1377434]I was trying to hold all three handles

That's most likely to be the problem. NEVER hang onto the sprue plate handle when casting. That'll cause things to misalign and spring the actual blocks apart causing all kinds of variation.

[MikeS]

When you say you 'threw out' the bad ones, I hope you mean you threw them back in the pot! Do you preheat the mould before casting? on of the easiest ways of cleaning the lead off the mould faces would be to preheat it on a hot plate, and once it's good and hot take a chop stick, and use it to remove any lead that's on the mould faces.

When casting, make sure the sprue plate is fully closed, then only hold the actual mould handles, not the sprue plate handle while casting. One nice thing about casting is that if you screw up, and end up with a bunch of 'bad' boolits, you can just throw them back in the pot, and then the only thing wasted was the time making them. And if you consider the time as a learning experience, then even the time wasn't wasted.

With TL moulds you can't really size them much before the TL grooves disappear, I usually size all of my boolits, even the TL ones, and unless I screw up and make them too big (a small piece of lead getting on the faces unseen, etc.) then there's no problem.

[lukewmtdew]

I must have been holding the sprue plate handle...i recast and they are much more uniform....and I tumble lubed them...everything seems to be going fine I was surprised how sticky and smelly that lube was! I washed my fingers three times and I still don't think I got it all off...gloves are in order next time I think

[lukewmtdew]

oh I only tipped them upright is why I touched them...otherwise I would have let them dry first...

[Chihuahua Floyd]

I must have been holding the sprue plate handle...i recast and they are much more uniform....and I tumble lubed them...everything seems to be going fine I was surprised how sticky and smelly that lube was! I washed my fingers three times and I still don't think I got it all off...gloves are in order next time I think
Good on learning how to hold the mold.
I never touch my bullets with wet LLA, just lube, and dump on wax paper, let em lay.
I second what was said above about getting another powder, Unique is an old standby, Red Dot, Green Dot, Clays. I use clays.

CF

[Echo]

When using my 6-bangers I tap the sprue plate closed with my plastic mallet to ensure complete closing. Just a tap, not a swat, and don't touch the handle afterwards until time to open again.

[lukewmtdew]

I picked up some unique...now I think I m gonna make a dummy round and see if I can get it to chmber...