Casting Technique

[wv109323]

I have cast untold bullets in the past but came against a problem where I need a little help.
I have a Lyman 20 lb. bottom pour pot and was using a RCBS .356- 124 gn. TC 2 cavity mold. This is the smallest/lightest bullets I cast.
I experienced a lot of bullets with wrinkles on the noses and could not get the bases flat. (mold completely full)
The problem was that the bottom pour spout did not operate easily and when operated the lead would fill one cavity and spill into the second cavity. If I stopped pouring and positioned the second cavity under the spout the lead would have hardened. The second cast bullet usually had a wrinkle where the pour was stopped and then restarted.
I tried to partially open the spout and make a continuous pour between the two cavities. This usually resulted in a bullet where the base was not completely filled.
All in all I had difficulty in making good bullets .
Is there a special technique or advice one could give me in casting the 9mm bullet. Would a laddle work better? Is there a trick in casting light rifle bullets such as a .224 caliber,55 grain ?

[Doby45]

Get to where you only fill a single cavity at a time. I cast that same mold with my Lee 4-20 and have zero issues with fill out or wrinkles..

[buyobuyo]

Moving the mold guide so that the sprue plate is closer to the spout is helpful. I don't cast with that particular mould, but I have the guide on my Lee 4-20 pot set so that there is ~5/16" between the top of the sprue plate and the bottom of the spout. Also, with the mold that I use, I find it helpful to start with the cavity closest to yourself and move to the next cavity without stopping the stream.

Also, you might need to run your mix a little hotter or cast faster to get the temperature of the mold up enough to completely fill out the base.

[Huntducks]

I have always casted with the spout stuck into the sprue plate there is no over spill if it's straight and against each other they both have the right taper to fit inside each other, one has a female and the other has a male taper, did you ever wonder why?

I had no clue until I came here anyone did it another way and I have been casting for 40+ years to me trying to line up 2 small holes and dumping lead has to be a chore in it's self on a 2c and 4c guys using a 6c and larger = PIA.

Try it you might like it.

I'm sure someone will tell me your not supposed to do it that way.

[buyobuyo]

Hunt, what you're doing is called pressure casting and can be helpful, especially with long, skinny boolits. I tried it when I started casting last year to alleviate fillout problems, but I found I can cast faster and get the same results with the way I'm casting now. Sure trying to line up the spout and sprue hole can be tough, but if your pot has a mould guide, it is a no brainer once you have it setup.

[geargnasher]

Pressure casting has it's own unique set of issues, mainly filling the vent lines and leaving little "hairs" of lead to migrate between the blocks and cause flashing, which in turn keeps the blocks from closing all the way, and after a while boolits start getting heavier and fatter unless you are religious about keeping the block faces clean.

The Lee Pro 4-20 has a flow adjustment screw on the top of the pintle carriage that can be adjusted to limit pintle up-travel. Adjust the screw until the pintle just barely lifts off the seat, and play with it in 1/4-turn increments until you get the flow to the point that you can control it. Sounds to me that the whole problem with this small-capacity mould is you're dumping a gusher of lead into it and you can't react quickly enough to control the overflow into the next cavity. Also, dumping lead too fast will get ahead of the venting and cause the rounded bases you're experiencing on the second cavity.

Gear

[Bob Krack]

Sounds to me that the whole problem with this small-capacity mould is you're dumping a gusher of lead into it and you can't react quickly enough to control the overflow into the next cavity. Also, dumping lead too fast will get ahead of the venting and cause the rounded bases you're experiencing on the second cavity.

GearNot calling names, that is just what the problem looks like to me. Believe me I pulled lots of hair out finding the right distance, the right flow rate, and the right cadence.

Good post Gear,

Bob

[btroj]

Gear is right, adjust the pour rate so the cavity doesn't fill so fast. The flow rate needs to be adjusted to fit the cavity size- big bullets, fast flow. Small bullets, slow flow.
I deliberately move the mould so each cavity is filled in line. I don't like having over flow go into the next cavity- I usually get rejects that way. The flow rate also may need to be adjusted as the amount of lead in the pot changes- as the head pressure goes down I sometimes will open the valve a bit more to keep the flow rate up.

This is part of learning to cast. You need to get to a point where You just "know" what is right.

[DLCTEX]

I tilt the mould slightly forward and fill the front cavity so that any spillover runs off the front, then move to the back cavity to finish the fill. I want as fast a flow as will not over flow, which is accomplished with practice.

[HangFireW8]

The problem was that the bottom pour spout did not operate easily and when operated the lead would fill one cavity and spill into the second cavity. If I stopped pouring and positioned the second cavity under the spout the lead would have hardened. The second cast bullet usually had a wrinkle where the pour was stopped and then restarted.
I tried to partially open the spout and make a continuous pour between the two cavities. This usually resulted in a bullet where the base was not completely filled.
All in all I had difficulty in making good bullets .
Is there a special technique or advice one could give me in casting the 9mm bullet. Would a laddle work better? Is there a trick in casting light rifle bullets such as a .224 caliber,55 grain ?

That problem is your problem. The Lee pot spout should move easily. I'm thinking either temp, crud or weird alloy. Temp might be a worn out coil or controller. Weird alloy is the same thing, it might require a higher than normal temp. I bet it is crud jamming up the works, though. It may be time for a thorough drain and scrape clean.

As for casting, a hot mold will minimize wrinkles, but would have to be very hot indeed to fix a double pour.

[wallenba]

It took me a while to get the 'feel' of when a mold was level so that it didn't spill off the top. Once I did, it got to be second nature. I tried continuous pouring to fill all the mold cavities too. That does not work for me either. My molds all seem to have personalities. One might like to be filled front to back, the other back to front. All of them have one quirk or another to be tamed. So, as techniques go, I start by the book and figure out the mold's problems as I go.
Check your temp and increase the space between the mold and spout. That might give more reaction time to shut the spout before moving to the other cavity.

[fredj338]

I have always casted with the spout stuck into the sprue plate there is no over spill if it's straight and against each other they both have the right taper to fit inside each other, one has a female and the other has a male taper, did you ever wonder why?

I had no clue until I came here anyone did it another way and I have been casting for 40+ years to me trying to line up 2 small holes and dumping lead has to be a chore in it's self on a 2c and 4c guys using a 6c and larger = PIA.

Try it you might like it.

I'm sure someone will tell me your not supposed to do it that way.
I "pressure" cast too, except on my Magma machine. Seems to give more uniform results, especially w/ smaller bullets.

[Bret4207]

Yes, ladle probably would help.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

OK, no need to throw stones at me, I know I'm an Ol'Coot, but get yourself a good heat source, like my VERY old Colman stove, A lead pot of at least 40lb size, and a Rowell bottom pour ladle and be done with it.

And yes, just like with a bottom pour, ladle casting had it's own issues, just less and easier to see/solve.

Plus, casting with those tiny pots would be a pain, just waiting for the alloy to melt and come up to temp, time after time after time. YUK!

Remember, folks, NO ROCKS this direction, and yes, I have tried a bottom pour.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[onondaga]

Some molds can be fussy. Spilling into the second cavity when pouring the first is annoying. The Lyman pots have a mold guide but you don't have to hold the mold bottom flat on the guide. Tipping the mold for overflow to be directed where you want it to go is not against any rules,

Your flow rate may be a problem as mentioned, but the poor fill-out of your bases could have multiple causes.

Look at your boolits. Are they shiny or do they have a little frost or velvety appearance. If they are very shiny and "pretty" your mold is too cool and likely your sprue plate is not up to temperature either. A simple thing to try is a bigger puddle when you pour to heat the sprue plate more and speed up your cadence for more mold block heat too.

Gary

[Old Caster]

Crusty, I have two pots. An RCBS for my primary pot and a Waage to fill the RCBS when it gets low so there are no temperature issues or waiting and I can add lead as often as I want to keep the column height consistant. I like electric because of the simplicity of controling the temperature.

If when pressure pouring, you have a problem with lead going up into your vent line, lower the column height of lead so there isn't so much pressure. Every mold has variences, mostly dependiing on manufacturer and or size. When pressure pouring with a ladle, the column height of the lead is only an inch or so which is why it would be rare to have a vent line problem unless the mold was messed up.

[NoZombies]

All good advice here. I would especially look at your flow adjustment. When casting very small bullets, that's the thing that makes or breaks the quality for me, and I cast some very small bullets using lee and lyman bottom pour pots.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Old Caster,

I have thought about multipal pots.

However, Other then when I am casting the rifle boolits, I like to team cast.

Meaning two of us, one filling molds and tending the pot and one opening molds.

As fast as we go through alloy in that situation, it would take some very good or large/fast electric pots to keep up.

I know it could be done, but the pots - likely 3 - would need to have a large capacity.

With a good heat source like the Colman gas stove and the large pot, I can produce enough heat and with the volumn of alloy in the pot, can add back the sprues as well as adding ingets of alloy while continuing to cast.

Other then fluxing once in awhile, it is almost none stop casting with 5 or so molds.

AS said, we go through a lot of alloy in a casting session.

Now, for the 45/70, and trying to get nice groups, I am casting by myself. But even at that, with a 4 cavity mold for 465gr boolits it would take a good sized or as you have done, at least two pots to keep up.

I know there are a bunch of set up and getting ready to cast issues with the stove, that are not present with the electric pots, but be'in the Ol'Coot that I am and with the experience I have had with the bottom pours, I am not likely to change now.

My mind is made up, don't confuse me with facts! :roll: :coffee: :cbpour:;)

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Old Caster]

Crusty, If it is working for you, why change. I don't think it would be a good idea to bottom pour big or long bullets anyway. When I cast for BPCR I use a homeade oversize ladle. If I use bottom pour for big bullets it seems too probable to get dirt inside the bullet. When you have bullets that look perfect but are odd in weight, you know something is wrong. I believe it is because the large amount of lead going through the small bottom pour neck can build up quickly with crud and then break loose and go into the mold. With a ladle it is constantly being moved around and cleaned and also the hole is bigger. Usually when a piece of dirt goes into a short bullet while bottom pouring, it is right in the back of the bullet where it can be seen and rejected, depending on how big it is and how picky you are being at the time.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Old Caster,

Thanks for your input.

Only reason for thinking about the electric pots is less hassle then the gas stove. But that said, I think I will do as you say and stay with what works

I am more critical with my cast rifle Boolits then the handgun fodder as almost anything will shoot as well as I can hold.

Although I did have a RUGER Super BlackHawk Hunter shoot some 100yd groups with a 325+ gr boolits from a Lyman "grab bag mold" that looked like rifle groups.

Of course, that was off the bench with a 2X Leupold.

Trying to get my groups shaped up with the 45/70 and getting there little by little.

Bruce the mold maker has been a help in that direction. Following his suggestions as per alloy and powder and it seems to be working.

Took a big & barren cow elk with His .462/465gr gas checked boolit a few weeks back, Aug. 1st., now I am using the time between then and the general season to decrease the group size.

Learning a bit as I go.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Old Caster]

Crusty, It sounds like some good eating. I think that is one of the best meats there are. When I was in New Zealand I certainly enjoyed their elk. Their's is a mixture of European red stag and American elk and it is for sale in all the restaurants. They have an over abundance of them there, because some of the penned animals got loose, and are looking for ways to thin them out. I suggested Grizzly because it works in America but they weren't too keen on the idea. This year in Misouri I am going to use my C Sharps 40/65 with my own cast bullet for hunting in Missouri, that is if the ladder sights will go low enough. I know it is over kill but it will be fun, especially to carry that log. -- Bill --

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Old Caster,

Haven't eaten any of this elk as yet, but elk is about as good as it gets.

The friend who helped me get the critter out and into his cooler has had meals of it a few times already and says this is a really good one.

She was very fat and great condition as well as being big.

I wonder if she'd ever had a calf, considering her size.

Pack'in a Sharps would be way cool and considering there is no such thing as too dead it sure isn't over kill in my opinion. GO for it!

Pack'in a single shot rifle puts a hunt into a class all by itself!

I can still remember the first time I sat on a mountian side during an Eastern Washington elk hunt with my first #1. It was a joy just to be there with that kind of rifle.

I'm lov'in my time with this RUGER #1s - 45/70

Keep em coming!

CRusty Deary Ol'Coot