Opinion on Accurate Mold for 44 Magnum

[ColColt]

I've about decided to get this mold from Accurate and wondered if anyone else had tried it. It looks good and I think would make a great all around boolit for the 44Special/Magnum...especially the magnum. It's the 43-260B.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Misc%20Stuff/43-260B-D.png

[deltaenterprizes]

Try it and let us know.

[Cherokee]

It does look good but you will not know until you try it. Have you slugged your barrel and measured the cylinder throats ? Throats should be .001-.0015 larger than barrel. Size bullet for the throats and go for it.

[ColColt]

Ye, Cherokee, I've been though all that. My throats are .432 and the groove diameter is .429". My m29 shoots lead superbly with no leading. Ive been using a custom mold that's similar to the 429421 Lyman and also have that one. I had to get the Lyman opened up by Erik so that it would drop larger boolits and he did a magnificent job. Dropping at about .435" that mold works great for sizing to .432".

This one from Accurate caught my eye and I think I may order it soon.

[Colorado4wheel]

Ye, Cherokee, I've been though all that. My throats are .432 and the groove diameter is .429". My m29 shoots lead superbly with no leading. Ive been using a custom mold that's similar to the 429421 Lyman and also have that one. I had to get the Lyman opened up by Erik so that it would drop larger boolits and he did a magnificent job. Dropping at about .435" that mold works great for sizing to .432".

This one from Accurate caught my eye and I think I may order it soon.


Eric who?

[Heavy lead]

Yup got it, Tom actually drew it up for me. If you want I'll run you some off this weekend, it drops .432, have some sized, but they are sized .431, which seems small for your throats. I had him cut it so ahead of the crimp groove is .430.
Let me know.

[chboats]

Colorado4wheel - check this out. He does great work

Eirk at
http://www.hollowpointmold.com/

carl

[44man]

I have started to have doubts about one lube groove. I made many molds with one and none shoot as good as a boolit with 2 grooves and most of my large calibers have 3 grooves.
If I measure the drive area, it is almost the same as is the amount taken by grooves yet several grooves show a marked difference at the target.
I have also configured them with different angles up to flat bottom, round bottom, etc.
For some reason my most accurate boolits also have a narrow base band.
No explanation! :confused:
But here is one of mine that just does not perform. It is .432" that shoots best from our guns.

[timkelley]

Does anyone know how this boolit will feed thru a Rossi 92 clone?

[cajun shooter]

44 Man, I will on this one give you a huge THAT'S CORRECT!!! I have used bullets with one large lube groove and they work fine at close distance. Where they have failed me is from about 80 yards on. I feel that a bullet with 2 or more grooves gives the bullet more driving bands over the surface. A prime example of that is in the rifle bullet for the 45-70 that is custom made and called the money bullet. It has more lube grooves that are smaller but gives the bullet more riding surface for the bore. I have had the same results with pistol bullets also.

[44man]

Even the RD 265, TL with Felix lube will shoot circles around the one I showed.
I have always said the Keith has no guidance at the cone and I believe that but could the lube groove also have something to do with it? :holysheep

[Marlin Junky]

Even the RD 265, TL with Felix lube will shoot circles around the one I showed.
I have always said the Keith has no guidance at the cone and I believe that but could the lube groove also have something to do with it? :holysheep

Lube grooves take away from bearing surface so there's probably a happy medium somewhere (between groove vs. band lengths) with respect to velocity, rate of twist and groove number/depth. Also the amount of lube carried by the boolit could be a factor. I (and perhaps others) have noticed that a boolit carrying enough lube to actually deposit some on the target 50 to 75 yards down range is probably going to print an occasional flyer (1 or even 2 out of 5 times).

MJ

[Wally]

Anyone vote for a 429360?

[ColColt]

Anyone vote for a 429360?

Not here. I have that one and can say unequivocally it's not as good, in the 44's I've had at any rate, as the 429421....or custom equivalent. I think there's been a couple of versions of the 429360 over the years but mine doesn't have much of a lube groove compared to the 429421 and there's twice as much base band in my example. The one on the right is the one I have.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Misc%20Stuff/_DEF3948.jpg

[44man]

Lube grooves take away from bearing surface so there's probably a happy medium somewhere (between groove vs. band lengths) with respect to velocity, rate of twist and groove number/depth. Also the amount of lube carried by the boolit could be a factor. I (and perhaps others) have noticed that a boolit carrying enough lube to actually deposit some on the target 50 to 75 yards down range is probably going to print an occasional flyer (1 or even 2 out of 5 times).

MJ
That is where it gets funny. I have measured the bands, added them up and my boolits with more and smaller GG's have the same bearing surface as the boolits with one groove.
GG area is also the same.

[cajun shooter]

44 man, While you might come up with the same total of measurement overall, I don't think that tells the whole story. I think it has more to do with the location of the lube grooves and driving bands. For instance the Big Lube moulds sold by DD on Cas City. I shoot nothing but 100% BP all the time. The big lubes worked very well at close SASS distance but when longer shots were fired, they failed to hold good groups. A member by the name of 44WCF has done hours of range research with the 44-40. His findings have shown that the original style that was for the 1873 rifle has still proven to be the most accurate bullet. That design is the Lyman 427098, known as the 42798 in the past. It has 2 lube grooves and no crimp groove as the full case of BP stopped the bullet from moving into the inside of the case after firing. The one problem is that the bullet of today has smaller grooves and the barrels on the 24 inch rifle would have leading unless SPG was used.
I contacted Tom at Accurate Moulds in 2010 and discused this problem. I designed a bullet on the same lines as the Lyman but increased the depth and design of the grooves and driving bands. That bullet has been shooting great with no problems and in one recent test John did much better with it than the one lube groove bullets.

[Wally]

Not here. I have that one and can say unequivocally it's not as good, in the 44's I've had at any rate, as the 429421....or custom equivalent. I think there's been a couple of versions of the 429360 over the years but mine doesn't have much of a lube groove compared to the 429421 and there's twice as much base band in my example. The one on the right is the one I have.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Misc%20Stuff/_DEF3948.jpg


Great images...what results have you had with the 429360...
I shot the same load (8.0 grains of Red Dot using a M-29 & a Ruger SuperBlackhawk at 25 yards....then teh same load with the RCBS 250 Keith bullet...little difference in groups on paper--BUT at fifty yards shooting at 3" & 6" wide steel plates against a dry sand berm/hill..the Keith was quite a bit more accurate. Then I loaded both in the .444 Marlin--17.0 grains of Unique...both had the same accuracy "level"--quite good, but I was shooting at 50 yards.

[ColColt]

Great images...what results have you had with the 429360...
I shot the same load (8.0 grains of Red Dot using a M-29 & a Ruger SuperBlackhawk at 25 yards....then teh same load with the RCBS 250 Keith bullet...little difference in groups on paper--BUT at fifty yards shooting at 3" & 6" wide steel plates against a dry sand berm/hill..the Keith was quite a bit more accurate. Then I loaded both in the .444 Marlin--17.0 grains of Unique...both had the same accuracy "level"--quite good, but I was shooting at 50 yards.

My findings exactly except I found the 429421 more than a bit more accurate than the 429360.

[Colorado4wheel]

So all my 9mm bullets are single groove. I wonder if it would even make a difference in 9mm?

[white eagle]

multi lube grooves in my experience have caused more leading in the barrel
I have shot multi and single I can not say one is more accurate that the other
same bearing surface just spread out different

[longbow]

Can't say for a revolver but I have the Mihec 434640 which looks very similar to the Accurate design and it shoots very well from my Marlin.

I got the PB version and push it hard with no leading and good accuracy from the Marlin.

I only have one of Tom's moulds so far but I am very impressed with it. If you go the Accurate Mold route you will be getting a gem of a mould.

[ColColt]

I've ordered this one in brass. I'll bet it's a beauty. My pot is ready and anxious to try it out. I've never had a brass mold . Does it require anything different as to preheating like an aluminum or iron mold?

[longbow]

Well, my experience so far with two Mihec brass moulds and one Accurate Molds brass mould is that they like heat.

Pre-heat well and cast at a reasonably fast and steady rate. I use a bit of sprue plate lube and pre-heat until it smokes a bit.

I don't have a thermometer and cast using an open pot over a propane burner so can't give exact temperatures but I find I use more heat under the pot and have to cast a little faster to maintain good mould temperature. Once the mould is up to temperature I can turn down the heat a bit but still have higher flame under the pot than I do for my iron moulds.

All three moulds cast beautifully though and all drop boolits easily. I have also cast for a friend using his Accurate brass mould and it also casts beautifully.

I am very happy with my Accurate mould and I am sure you will like yours. Tom does a terrific job and the moulds are great.

Enjoy!

Longbow

[44man]

multi lube grooves in my experience have caused more leading in the barrel
I have shot multi and single I can not say one is more accurate that the other
same bearing surface just spread out different
I would blame leading on something else because I get none at all.
But tests have proven to me that one large groove never shoots as good.
Leading is a thorn in the side for many and I don't profess to know the answers, yet I do not believe it is caused by GG's.
Cajun shooter has a handle on it, yet the actual reason eludes us.
It could be as simple as too much lead in contact with the bore between the GG's or boolit balance.
My smaller calibers like the .44 get two grooves and larger get three. This has been working and I have shot too many 1" or less groups at 100 yards with revolvers to change. I can't do that at 50 with a boolit with one groove, I can't, don't even ask me. I have never, ever shot close to 1" at 50 with a Keith either.

[Frank]

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Misc%20Stuff/_DEF3948.jpg

Base driving band is too thick for GG. Not enough lube to provide hydrostatic seal when base obturates. This leads to leading, balance problems and loss of accuracy.

[Frank]

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=34990&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1313586873

Problem here is shank's too short. No room for scraped lead to accumulate. More grooves would also be better. :coffeecom

[white eagle]

nope same alloy multi vs single lube groove
single always comes out better
just today shot very good groups with my new single lube groove boolit
very very similar to yours ColColt

[white eagle]

you'll like the brass molds
just heat it up while your alloy gets settled in and start a castin
I find brass easier to control the mold than aluminum by far
but its also a touch heavier so ya haves yer gives and yer takes

[44man]

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=34990&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1313586873

Problem here is shank's too short. No room for scraped lead to accumulate. More grooves would also be better. :coffeecom
Same shank as my two lube groove.

[Frank]

44man:

Same shank as my two lube groove.
The short shank probably works because you use a hard alloy. If it was softer, when the base obturates it could deform that band unevenly. Having a groove above the GC would alloy the softer alloy to obturate evenly. Plus, having a groove above the GC allows lead to be scraped out, one of the benefits of a GC.

[Frank]

Having a wide band at the bottom and a bore riding nose is a low velocity combination. There's no benefit to the SWC design. The bore riding nose leads to balance problems. The wide base casts easier but velocity is limited. Plus, the smaller nose reduces the killing power. All in all, the Keith design takes a back seat to forward heavy, round ogive design.

[Don Purcell]

Was talking to John Linebaugh a few years ago along these lines and he told me that they tried an experiment of wiping most of the lube out of the groove just leaving some packed in the corners and accuracy went up. If I remember correctly it was a 310 grain Keith in 45 Colt.

[Frank]

Don Purcell:

Was talking to John Linebaugh a few years ago along these lines and he told me that they tried an experiment of wiping most of the lube out of the groove just leaving some packed in the corners and accuracy went up. If I remember correctly it was a 310 grain Keith in 45 Colt.
Sometimes with that design if the front band is small it will slump in the rifling, causing the hydrostatic seal to be broken and lube squirting out. Reducing the lube is maybe alleviating that problem.

[ColColt]

I've noticed from time to time that I'll find lube(BAC) in small amounts about the size of a BB on my targets...not sure what causes that one but, they'll just be 2-3 spots.