Lyman 429421 lube groove

[tiredcarpenter]

What is the history and preference on the Lyman 429421? Early Keith design had the square bottom lube groove and when did Lyman modified this to round bottom lube groove? Which do you like better?
Thanks, tiredcarpenter

[cbrick]

tiredcarpenter,

Here's an article by Glen E. Fryxell that gives a pretty good description of the 429421, Elmer and Lyman.

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell44SWC.htm

Rick

[Char-Gar]

I don't remember when the lube groove change was made, but Elmer squalled bloody murder when Lyman made the change and told folks to buy Hensley and Gibbs molds which were faithful to his original design. Lyman made some more changes including making the meplat smaller.

I have molds with both type lube grooves and I most often shoot the original Keith. To tell the truth, I do this for nostalga purposes as I really have never seen a difference in how the bullets perform.

[9.3X62AL]

Great boolit. My long favorite in the 44 Special, and my mold has an angled square aspect to it. My #358429 has a rather short bottom drive band--rounded lube groove aspect--and weighs 163 grains. So, the Keith design gets "re-interpreted" a little.

I spoke a few days ago with one of our admin retirees who casts his own for his revolvers. That such a good guy got as far in my agency as he did rank-wise defies belief, but I digress. His first agency was a small city department that authorized the S&W M-29 44 Magnum (and about everything else). He did rangemaster duties for that agency, and recalled how at 25 yards the #429421 boolits were still slinging lube all over the B-27 targets fired upon during training. By 50 yards, this tendency disappeared. His view was that Mr. Keith subscribed heavily to the "if some lube is good, then more is better" school of boolit design. I know I've run my #429421's well past 1400 FPS in my Redhawk, and accuracy was unaffected--no leading--and recoil was "exhilarating", as Col. Askins was prone to say.

Welcome aboard, T. C.

[MT Gianni]

I sold a 2 cavity square groove a few years ago when I got a good round groove 4 cav. They shot the same with modern lubes and I don't miss it much. I think a lot of Elmers designs but recognize his opinions were formulated when chicken fat was a major lube ingredient. Welcome aboard, Gianni.

[45 2.1]

Elmer stated in his writings that he used Lyman banana lubricant, which is an old formula the Scheutzen folks liked and used.

[MT Gianni]

45-2-1, I am aware of that I was referring to his days outside Helena as a young man. Gianni.

[Shuz]

I have both the round and square grease groove 429421's. I have never been able to detect any accuracy difference between the two, however, the round groove design drops boolits from the mould easier. The square edges cause the boolits from other design to "hang up" in my opinion.--Shuz

[9.3X62AL]

The lube groove on my rendition of #429421 caused me to consider bacon drippings more than once......I guess if Mr. Keith "recycled" fats and vegetable oils like that, I wasn't completely facetious. It sure would be an aromatic range session--like walking into a Denny's at 7 A.M., or driving past a KFC.

[felix]

Yes, Shuz, I feel the same way. I really don't think it makes much difference between round and square grooves, provided they both drop from the mold easily, and both carry the lube necessary to shoot correctly for the application. A square groove should have more than enough angle into the groove, and a round groove centered enough outside of the boolit's edge to put a slight angle into the groove. ... felix