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View Full Version : 38/55s in 375 Big Bore?



Four Fingers of Death
06-08-2005, 06:00 PM
375 brass is mucho expensive here in Australia and not that easy to come by either. I'm under the impression that I can shorten 38/55s and use those, I know the brass is not as strong, but I thought that it would be ok with lead boolit loads. Am I on the right track here?

txpete
06-08-2005, 11:33 PM
I have done it a few times with my cast 240 gr lfn bullets.I only used mid-level loads but no problems.
pete

Bullshop
06-09-2005, 12:10 AM
375 brass is mucho expensive here in Australia and not that easy to come by either. I'm under the impression that I can shorten 38/55s and use those, I know the brass is not as strong, but I thought that it would be ok with lead boolit loads. Am I on the right track here?

I have a marlin 375 Win that seems to have a generous chamber. I use 38/55 brass full length. I dont realy buy the 375 brass is stronger thing. Befor I found I could use 38/55 brass all I ever used for brass was 30/30. Bet you wont see much difference in the web on all three. Does anyone realy load to the point that it makes a difference? I mean whats the sence of loading hot enough to streach primer pockets. Ill bet a load that streches pockets well placed will not kill any faster than one that gives good long case life, and I think I almost always get better accuracy with the lighter load.
BIC/BS

woody1
06-09-2005, 09:18 AM
I too have a Marlin 375. I use blown out 30-30 brass for everything but top end (for me) loads. The 30-30 brass definately has a thinner tube, I don't know about the web area. All I shoot in it is cast. IMO, you'll have no problems using 30-30 brass or 38-55 brass. Regards, Woody

Rrusse11
06-09-2005, 11:51 AM
375 brass is mucho expensive here in Australia and not that easy to come by either. I'm under the impression that I can shorten 38/55s and use those, I know the brass is not as strong, but I thought that it would be ok with lead boolit loads. Am I on the right track here?

Mick,
I did score some 375 brass in a bargain bin, and it IS a bit heavier build than the W.W 38-55 brass, but as pointed out, iffen ur startin' to push the brass, you're really starting to push the strength of any of the rear lock-up lever actions. Neck sized clean brass in a clean chamber, see Ackley's chapter on pressure, and you'll have no problems IMO.
Cheers,
R*2
Ps. Where in Oz are ya? I spent 20 years in Sydney.

Four Fingers of Death
06-10-2005, 06:55 AM
I have a marlin 375 Win that seems to have a generous chamber. I use 38/55 brass full length. I dont realy buy the 375 brass is stronger thing. Befor I found I could use 38/55 brass all I ever used for brass was 30/30. Bet you wont see much difference in the web on all three. Does anyone realy load to the point that it makes a difference? I mean whats the sence of loading hot enough to streach primer pockets. Ill bet a load that streches pockets well placed will not kill any faster than one that gives good long case life, and I think I almost always get better accuracy with the lighter load.
BIC/BS

Great idea, I have more 30/30 brass than I can poke a stick at. These would be used for lead boolit loads only, so would be fine.

How do you open up the necks? Can you do it in one pass?

woody1
06-11-2005, 09:35 AM
Great idea, I have more 30/30 brass than I can poke a stick at. These would be used for lead boolit loads only, so would be fine.

How do you open up the necks? Can you do it in one pass?
Best to blow 'em out. I use 6-7 grains Red Dot or similar, fill with cornmeal and cap with a plug of boolit lube or parafin and shoot.
Regards, Woody

txpete
06-11-2005, 12:30 PM
thanks woody I learned something today,never thought about just blowing out the 30-30 as above.
thanks
pete

Four Fingers of Death
06-13-2005, 07:17 PM
Best to blow 'em out. I use 6-7 grains Red Dot or similar, fill with cornmeal and cap with a plug of boolit lube or parafin and shoot.
Regards, Woody

Well pickle me grandmother! I always said if you keep your eyes, ears and bowels open and your mouth shut, you will learn something every day. I can't wait to get back home and get some of the 30/30 brass I have salted away!
Thanks again, Mick.

26Charlie
06-29-2005, 06:47 PM
As to the original question, I have tried .38-55 brass in a Ruger #3, a Winchester M94 Big Bore, and a Marlin M375 (what they call their M336 version of the .375 Win) All three .375 Win. chambered rifles accepted the .38-55 brass without a hitch. I think the factories anticipated a problem for once and made the chambers a little long.
OF course back awhile ago I couldn't get either brass, so made them from .30-30 by blowing them out as mentioned.

Four Fingers of Death
07-01-2005, 05:44 AM
Thanks for the info, I am living about 150miles from home with fifty odd miles of rough dirt between the two on loan to another institution and haven't got all my guns here. The 375 and my 30/30 are both at home and after all the articles on them recently, I can't wait to get home and get both.

I have a pair of 310 tong tools for the 30/30 and love reloading with them. I have two sets of 30/30 dies and I might have a talk to my machinist mate about converting one set to 375.

drinks
07-01-2005, 12:42 PM
May help to anneal the neck and shoulder before fire forming the cases.
.25-35 makes several .22 cfs, sometimes need to turn down the rim and /or add an extractor groove,even make 6.5x54MS cases by adding a .2" ring of brass in front of the rim, turning rim to .440 and adding an extractor groove .30-30 and .32sp make a bunch as well, from .30 to .375.
I make .303 Savage cases from .30-30 by adding the ring and running in a .303 Savage resizing die, then trimming to length.
.25, 30 and 32 Remington can be made by just turning the rim off and cutting an extractor groove.

Four Fingers of Death
07-02-2005, 07:16 AM
May help to anneal the neck and shoulder before fire forming the cases.
.25-35 makes several .22 cfs, sometimes need to turn down the rim and /or add an extractor groove,even make 6.5x54MS cases by adding a .2" ring of brass in front of the rim, turning rim to .440 and adding an extractor groove .30-30 and .32sp make a bunch as well, from .30 to .375.
I make .303 Savage cases from .30-30 by adding the ring and running in a .303 Savage resizing die, then trimming to length.
.25, 30 and 32 Remington can be made by just turning the rim off and cutting an extractor groove.

I have loaded heaps of ammo, but never got into case converting or whatever you call it. Always fancied a 35 Lever Power or a 35 Remington. What case is the 35Rem based on? I have never seen one in Australia. That's gonna change if I have anything to do with it.
Mick.

Rrusse11
07-02-2005, 02:31 PM
I have loaded heaps of ammo, but never got into case converting or whatever you call it. Always fancied a 35 Lever Power or a 35 Remington. What case is the 35Rem based on? I have never seen one in Australia. That's gonna change if I have anything to do with it.
Mick.

Mick,
For you my friend, downunder, your best bet is 303 British brass, turn down the rim and cut an extractor groove, trim to length and run thru a 35Rem die. Prolly still need to fireform in the chamber. Pretty simple stuff with a metal lathe.
Look out though,,,,,, lol, opens up a whole new world of possibilities. I use RCBS.Load, and it's got a great feature of a 'cartridge designer', LOTS of standard cartridge dimensions,,,,,, and the ability to alter them. Check it out at www.gmdr.com (http://www.gmdr.com).
Cheers,
R*2

26Charlie
07-05-2005, 09:02 PM
Mick, The .35 Remington is a head-size of .460", not the same as anything else. The .30-06 head-size is .470", same as .300 Savage, .308 Win., .358 Win., and .356 Win. which is identical in dimension to the .358 Win. except for a fat rim (.507) for the Win M94 Big Bore extractor to grab. Reports are that the .358 Win. brass works OK in the .356 Win. rifles, and of course I have made .358 Win. brass by just necking up .308 Win. brass.

Rrusse11
07-05-2005, 11:17 PM
Mick,
Here's some dimensions on the 35Rem and the 303Brit. Should be no problem finding brass.

http://www.marlinowners.com/gallery/albums/userpics/normal_303Brit35Rem%20copy.jpg

Willbird
07-06-2005, 06:48 AM
I would not be at all suprised to find that 35 rem chambers would accept brass made from 308,

most saami 22-250 chambers will accept brass made from 308 win.

Bill

Four Fingers of Death
07-06-2005, 07:29 AM
Mick,
I did score some 375 brass in a bargain bin, and it IS a bit heavier build than the W.W 38-55 brass, but as pointed out, iffen ur startin' to push the brass, you're really starting to push the strength of any of the rear lock-up lever actions. Neck sized clean brass in a clean chamber, see Ackley's chapter on pressure, and you'll have no problems IMO.
Cheers,
R*2
Ps. Where in Oz are ya? I spent 20 years in Sydney.



I was born in Sydney, lived in the inner city as a lad moved to the suburbs as a teenager, frustrated county guy, finallt moved to the country in 1990 and have been here ever since. Currently on loan to a jail at Muswellbrook, which id NW of Sydney, about 150miles out, in the Hunter valley. All coal mines, power stations, farms and vineyards. The jail I work at has a farm, vegetable processing plant, school furniture reconditioning factory and heavy horse stud. With a bit of luck I will end up here permanently and I will spend the last few years of my career here. There are plenty of ranges here and I am really starting to get my loads sorted out. Not able to cast here and am missing that.

Mick.

When were you here?

Rrusse11
07-07-2005, 08:26 AM
Mick,
Spent from "78- "99 in Oz. Mostly in Sydney, had a house in Balmain for years. Spent as much time sailing on the Harbor as I could. Love the place, truly one of the world's most cosmopolitan cities. The only downside, I never even saw a gun, let alone fire one, in all my time downunder. Lol, been makin' up for lost time since my return to North America.. I imagine where you are out there in the 'bush', lots of space to shoot. Good luck hangin' on to your firearms, sadly, like Canada, the gun grabbers seem to have the upper hand at the moment.
Cheers,
R*2

Four Fingers of Death
07-08-2005, 08:33 AM
Mick,
Spent from "78- "99 in Oz. Mostly in Sydney, had a house in Balmain for years. Spent as much time sailing on the Harbor as I could. Love the place, truly one of the world's most cosmopolitan cities. The only downside, I never even saw a gun, let alone fire one, in all my time downunder. Lol, been makin' up for lost time since my return to North America.. I imagine where you are out there in the 'bush', lots of space to shoot. Good luck hangin' on to your firearms, sadly, like Canada, the gun grabbers seem to have the upper hand at the moment.
Cheers,
R*2


I lived in Sydney up till late 1990, before moving to Bathurst. I did plenty of shooting at the ranges around Sydney and shot rabbits around the back of the Coast Hospital at Malabar. Tippy toeing around the back of the wards with a 22lr or 22 air rifle. Trying to stay out of the spotlights after working afternoon shift at the Prison annex at the hospital. Fun times.

MIck.

Four Fingers of Death
07-24-2005, 07:21 AM
I too have a Marlin 375. I use blown out 30-30 brass for everything but top end (for me) loads. The 30-30 brass definately has a thinner tube, I don't know about the web area. All I shoot in it is cast. IMO, you'll have no problems using 30-30 brass or 38-55 brass. Regards, Woody

The local sports store is going out of business as he is not able to compete with Woolworths, Big W, etc and I wandered in yesterday looking for a shotgun carrier for cowboy action shoots. didn't do any good, but he had a box of 100 Winchester 30/30 unprimed cases, which I bought. I have hundreds and hundreds of 30/30 cases, but no new stuff.

I am under the impession that the new cases will fireform better than used cases. Am I on the right track here?

It will take me three lifetimes to wear out all of the 38Special, 223 308, 30/06 and 30/30 brass that I own.

Mick.

Buckshot
07-24-2005, 08:18 AM
...........New cases should form better as they have all the original factory anneal. The body hasn't been worked at all.

.............Buckshot

drinks
07-25-2005, 09:30 PM
Mick;
Either the .30-40 Krag or the .303 Brit. will do as the easiest way to make .35 REM. cases, all have a head dimension ..456-460.
The .470 head cases, x57 mauser, .30-06. .308 and such are a bit big, as a test, I used a .44REM mag carbide die and , with a lot of lube and tries, got the head of a 7x57 case down to 457, but it still had a little belt that I had to turn off.
Not really worth the struggle unless no other brass is available.
If a small , even toy type lathe is available, just place a jacketed bullet in the case mouth, chuck it up, put the tailstock center in the primer pocket , turn the rim down to body size and cut an extractor groove so the straight part is the proper space from the back ,about .060" and the front part tapers at about a 45" angle.
Can be done with a drill motor and some sort of stationary center support, using a file to do the cutting.
Lots of ways to skin a cat.
Don

D.Mack
07-25-2005, 10:34 PM
Mick, nothing against the 35 rem, but if you have alifetime supply of 308 and 30-30 type brass, have you considered, the 358 wiin, or the 356win. both can be had by just renecking what you already got. Ishoot the 358. in a Browning Lever, it has the advantage of a rotory bolt , and can shoot spire points. (clip fed)

Four Fingers of Death
07-26-2005, 06:59 AM
Mick, nothing against the 35 rem, but if you have alifetime supply of 308 and 30-30 type brass, have you considered, the 358 wiin, or the 356win. both can be had by just renecking what you already got. Ishoot the 358. in a Browning Lever, it has the advantage of a rotory bolt , and can shoot spire points. (clip fed)

No doubt the 358 Win and 356 or whatever it was are better cartridges, but I have been reading about the 35 Reminton for years and the romance of shooting roll our own lead boolits in one probably interests me as much as anything. Like driving a old LandRover or an old Jeep, plenty of better vehicles around, but they still get you in.

Four Fingers of Death
07-26-2005, 07:07 AM
I will be driving back to my home town tomorow (currently on a posting away from home). After giving my son the normal grousing for not mowing the lawn (my wife and I haven't been there for two and a half years and it looks like the Addams family live there), I'm going to crack open my gun safe and get the 30/30 and the 375Big bore out and back into action (or into action as far as the 375 is concerned). Looking forward to it. I haven't got room for all my guns where I am at the moment and I am continually missing the ones I haven't got!
Mick.

woody1
07-26-2005, 02:54 PM
I am under the impession that the new cases will fireform better than used cases. Am I on the right track here?

Mick.

I do my fire forming with once fired 30-30 brass of which I too have a near lifetime supply. Regards, Woody

Four Fingers of Death
07-27-2005, 05:41 AM
I will be driving back to my home town tomorow (currently on a posting away from home). After giving my son the normal grousing for not mowing the lawn (my wife and I haven't been there for two and a half years and it looks like the Addams family live there), I'm going to crack open my gun safe and get the 30/30 and the 375Big bore out and back into action (or into action as far as the 375 is concerned). Looking forward to it. I haven't got room for all my guns where I am at the moment and I am continually missing the ones I haven't got!
Mick.

My boss had a dose of the whatevers and I couldn't get away in time to get the trip done as I had planned. Over to plan b, which means I won't be able to go home, therefore no guns, bugger!
Ah well, a couple of weeks will see it right.

Hobie
08-25-2005, 09:27 AM
I have a marlin 375 Win that seems to have a generous chamber. I use 38/55 brass full length. I dont realy buy the 375 brass is stronger thing. Befor I found I could use 38/55 brass all I ever used for brass was 30/30. Bet you wont see much difference in the web on all three. Does anyone realy load to the point that it makes a difference? I mean whats the sence of loading hot enough to streach primer pockets. Ill bet a load that streches pockets well placed will not kill any faster than one that gives good long case life, and I think I almost always get better accuracy with the lighter load.
BIC/BS

There is a difference. Unimportant for moderate cast bullet loads (up to 2000 fps).

Rrusse11
08-25-2005, 10:39 AM
Hiya Hobie, welcome aboard, thanks for the cross sectional pic. 375 brass IS thickerer, but I'm personally coming to the conclusion that with clean chambers and close fitting brass, the case itself doesn't contribute much to the ability of an action/load combination to resist pressure, especially in lever actions.
Cheers,
R*2

drinks
08-25-2005, 10:50 AM
I have seen info posted that the ammo mfgrs have standardized on 1 basic case for the .30-30 and variants, it is slightly shorter than the older .38-55, and all .25-35, .30-30, .32sp, .38-55 and .375 are going to be made from the new standard basic case, so the ones that were slightly longer, will now be the same length as the .30-30, the difference is only a few thousands.

McLintock
08-25-2005, 04:34 PM
Fire forming 30-30 brass is the way to go and I've done about 400 cases myself and been using them for 5-6 years now. Some have been loaded at least 20 times and I have yet to find a split case or any other failure, I lose most of mine while reloading and putting them into the neck expander die on the Dillon 550; catches the edge if you're not watching. I've also shortened a lot of them to less than .375 length in an attempt to fit nine rounds in a tube mag for a 24" barrel on a '94. Got to using the shortened cases even for my Browning Single Shot and they shot so good that's about all I use now for smokeless powder apps. I use loads up to 31 grs of 3031 with a 265 gr gas check bullet in the single shot. Black Powder's another story though.
I used a method for fire forming that Ken Waters used in a story on 38-55's in Handloader Magazine way back when, I think about 1978 or so. He put 15 gr of Red Dot (I've used both it and Titegroup) with a tightly wound paper wad made from paper kitchen towels and no filler. Just hold the rifle at a 45 degree angle to hold the powder against the primer and it poops them out pretty good. A few wrinkles but they work out a couple loadings.

Hobie
08-25-2005, 06:59 PM
Hiya Hobie, welcome aboard, thanks for the cross sectional pic. 375 brass IS thickerer, but I'm personally coming to the conclusion that with clean chambers and close fitting brass, the case itself doesn't contribute much to the ability of an action/load combination to resist pressure, especially in lever actions.
Cheers,
R*2
Thankyou.

Yep, I don't think it matters in most circumstances. Now in Contenders, maybe when pushing to the max. Not elsewhere though.