Bullplate woes

[44man]

Well I did it. I made a sprue plate and before I put it on my mold I put a touch of Bullplate on it. I could barely see it and wiped it off with my fingers. Looked dry. The plate must have sheared a tiny amount into one side of the cavities, the plate fits dead perfect to the mold top.
That side of the bases would not fill. I wiped the cavities 3 times.
It took a good 20 boolits before the stuff was gone, now bases are sharp enough to cut.
The spot was very shallow and can only be seen with the boolit still in the mold.
I only used about half of what I use on store bought molds because I also put a film on the blocks. No go with a good plate.
Goes to show just how little can mess up a casting, this stuff was like a vapor.
Bullplate is tough and does a great job but now I need to figure out how to use it, maybe a microscope. :o An almost dry "Q" tip is too much.

[ColColt]

It seems I've read you're suppose to put this on after the mold's hot. I don't have my instructions handy but I think that's what it says. Would it make a difference...I don't know for sure but I used the Q-tip method after shaking the bottle and opening the lid and only dipped the Q-tip in the lid.

[leadman]

Apply when the mold is hot and boolits in the cavities.

[largom]

Apply when the mold is hot and boolits in the cavities.


As above and wipe off with dry Q-tip. What little remains gets the job done. Great stuff!

Larry

[Nrut]

Apply when the mold is hot and boolits in the cavities.

Yep..
That's what it said on the instructions that came with my bottle(s) of Bullplate..

[PacMan]

It is darn good stuff but you have to be careful for sure. I only put it on the sprue plate except i also coat the outside of the mold with it,not the top, makes clean up of any splatter i get on the outside real easy.

I put a very small drop on one end of a qtip and coat the sprue plate staying away from the holes a little.I then take the other end of the qtip and wipe it down soaking up the extra almost drying it and smearing some around the holes.After a couple of casting and coating it a couple of times i dont have to use it any more for a good while.

Still lube the alinement pins with LBT graphite lube.

[44man]

Apply when the mold is hot and boolits in the cavities.
I have no instructions so that sounds good, I will do it.
I wanted some at the pivot point before putting in the screw so I applied it on the whole plate at the same time.
I have used Mold Prep for years but Ray Pine retired. I use his handles too, great for $14 but now I am stuck with what I have left.
Ray is a great person and made great molds. He offered to sell me his whole business but what would on old retired guy on SS do with it? :bigsmyl2:
Thanks guys! I appreciate it.

[dromia]

I've had the same bottle of Bull plate for years, never opened it. I just wave the bottle over an up to temp mould and it works just champion. ;)

Great stuff and less is definitely more. :grin:

[cbrick]

Did anyone mention applying when the mold is up to temp with bullets in the cavities? :coffee:

Ok, guess so.

Like 44man I wanted it in the pivot so what I do is while the mold is cool is loosen the sprue enough to get a Q-tip under the plate at the screw and place a very small amount there, snug up the plate and pre-heat. Once up to temp I give the sprue plate a final tension adjustment. Cast a few and then use the Q-tip on the underside of the plate, wipe with a clean Q-tip.

44man is correct, you don't want it in the cavities, you'll not be a happy camper.

Rick

[BABore]

I didn't seem to have any luck following the instructions and usually ended up with some in the cavities. I now only apply BP to the underside of the sprue plate and wipe it off. Nothing on the block tops. Works fine.

[randyrat]

They say; You can track Dan at Bull shop threw the woods if you use a good magnifying glass. He leaves an ever so light trace of Bull Plate Sprue Lube every where he goes. That stuff is good.

[44man]

I used scrap aircraft aluminum for the blocks, it is very hard. I am still using scrap stainless for the plates, 1/4" thick. I mill it and the tops of the blocks but never take the swirl marks off, they really work to reduce friction and make good vents.
Bullplate gets into the swirlys and makes things so smooth.
The stainless presents a problem in that I can not use a countersink to make the taper. I have to lathe cut them by mounting the plate on a face plate, drill the hole and cut with a small cutter I ground.
I have all kinds of aircraft countersinks but none will cut the stainless.
It is hard to work but my plates will be dug up in a million years to confuse all as to their purpose! :bigsmyl2: Just maybe, there will be some Bullplate residue on them to drive them nuts! :holysheep
For all that want highly polished block tops and sprue plates--DON'T.

[Wayne Smith]

Doing it cold and wiping with your finger were your two problems. Finger leaves too much behind, I found that out.

[Marlin Junky]

I use it like BABore. First application is on a hot plate pre-heated mold about 400F. Put it on, let it smoke and wipe off the excess with a clean Q-tip until dry. Next application is basically to wipe off any lead specs on the underside of the sprue plate as needed, usually with the same Q-tip I used to dry the sprue plate. The film should be dry before casting which could mean having a few dry Q-tips handy during the casting session.

MJ

[Cadillo]

Did anyone mention applying when the mold is up to temp with bullets in the cavities? :coffee:

Ok, guess so.

Like 44man I wanted it in the pivot so what I do is while the mold is cool is loosen the sprue enough to get a Q-tip under the plate at the screw and place a very small amount there, snug up the plate and pre-heat. Once up to temp I give the sprue plate a final tension adjustment. Cast a few and then use the Q-tip on the underside of the plate, wipe with a clean Q-tip.

44man is correct, you don't want it in the cavities, you'll not be a happy camper.

Rick

I lube the pivot contact points with anti-seize lube, which is rated at 1600 degrees F, and lasts much longer than the Bullplate. Bullplate is a great product and I use it every casting session, but it is inferior to the anti-seize for the pivot contact points. Save the Bull plate for the sprue plate and exterior of the mould blocks.

[ghh3rd]

When I get into a casting frenzy, with my thick leather gloves covering my hands, I carefully manage to get a very small drop onto a qtip, apply to the sprue plate, and then wipe it down with the leather glove until it seems to be gone. Lasts a while, and then I can just rub it with the leather glove from time to time to freshen up the application. It really doesn't take much at all to work.

Randy

[Marlin Junky]

I lube the pivot contact points with anti-seize lube, which is rated at 1600 degrees F, and lasts much longer than the Bullplate. Bullplate is a great product and I use it every casting session, but it is inferior to the anti-seize for the pivot contact points. Save the Bull plate for the sprue plate and exterior of the mould blocks.

I think I'd like to try some of this anti-seize you're speaking about on my new aluminum mold. Please refer a source and brand... preferably a national auto parts chain or good ol' Wally World.

Thanks,
MJ

P.S. Loctite makes a zinc based anti-seize lubricant that sounds like it should work well on threads in aluminum molds but I wonder if it would migrate into the cavities if used as a sprue plate lube. I'll see if I can find some tomorrow afternoon.

[jonk]

I never found it to be needed on the sprue plate. I do love it for lubing pins and hinges, and the speed green recipe is the cat's meow. Mind you it does as advertised on the sprue plate, I just never found it to be needed.

However, yes, I have gotten it into the mold. Burnt off quicker than oil and whatever it is helped bullet release a bit while it was there.

[Marlin Junky]

...Mind you it does as advertised on the sprue plate, I just never found it to be needed.

Sounds like you may cast a bit slower (and/or cooler) than I do. I used to smear boolit bases while using "un-lubed" molds. Back in the old days I would coat a mold top and sprue cutter with a number 2 pencil which needed to be reapplied multiple times during a casting session. Then I tried some Yamalube (owned an RD350 then) on my molds which were all ferrous back then (first Lee mold was torn to pieces in a matter of hours) and it worked great after I figured out how much to apply.

Fast forward a bunch of years... I can understand using an unlubed ferrous mold if casting at kind of a lazy pace, but if the goal was to cast 2-3 hundred larger (2-3 hundred grain) boolits from an aluminum mold in an evening, I couldn't do it without a premium lubricant. Then again, if my boolits don't come out as perfect as possible, they go right back in the pot. BTW, I don't apply soot to the cavities of aluminum molds anymore, I just get the blocks hotter than I used to and the result is better boolits.

MJ

[Cadillo]

I think I'd like to try some of this anti-seize you're speaking about on my new aluminum mold. Please refer a source and brand... preferably a national auto parts chain or good ol' Wally World.

Thanks,
MJ

Mine is manufactured by Permatex and marketed by NAPA. It's badged by both. Not cheap, $24.00 for an 8 oz bottle, but is a must have for anything that needs lubing under high heat conditions or must remain free from freezing due to corrosion. I use it on all my lug nuts and on my brake calipers when redoing my brakes. A little goes a long way and 8 oz will last me for many years.

I tried the stores like O'Reilly's and Autozone. I couldn't find a soul in either one that had ever heard of ant-seize compound or could even fathom what I was tring to tell them when I described it to them. I don't think that you will find it there.

[44man]

I cast slow and easy too so I really can get away with no lube but I like Bullplate or Mold Prep.
The whole thing is, I can cast a LOT of boolits without any lead smears. Those destroy a mold, ruin boolit bases, and too many returns to the pot. I pride myself with several hundred boolits with either zero rejects or just one or two but those will be my fault.
All in all, it might take me 15 minutes more to make the same amount of perfect boolits as someone that has to reject many.

[Marlin Junky]

I cast slow and easy too so I really can get away with no lube but I like Bullplate or Mold Prep.
The whole thing is, I can cast a LOT of boolits without any lead smears. Those destroy a mold, ruin boolit bases, and too many returns to the pot. I pride myself with several hundred boolits with either zero rejects or just one or two but those will be my fault.
All in all, it might take me 15 minutes more to make the same amount of perfect boolits as someone that has to reject many.

44man,

My goal is 300 boolits an evening (no exceptions granted for August) w/o rejects after temp stabilization (usually < 20 boolits). I gotta have a well lubed aluminum mold or this just ain't possible.

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

Mine is manufactured by Permatex and marketed by NAPA. It's badged by both. Not cheap, $24.00 for an 8 oz bottle, but is a must have for anything that needs lubing under high heat conditions or must remain free from freezing due to corrosion. I use it on all my lug nuts and on my brake calipers when redoing my brakes. A little goes a long way and 8 oz will last me for many years.

I tried the stores like O'Reilly's and Autozone. I couldn't find a soul in either one that had ever heard of ant-seize compound or could even fathom what I was tring to tell them when I described it to them. I don't think that you will find it there.

Cadillo,

As I mentioned in my addendum to Post#17, I discovered Loctite has a zinc anti-seize. I also found the Permatex that you use on the net but it's too expensive for me to buy just for the purpose of mold care, especially if the only way I can buy it is by the pound. The Loctite zinc anti-seize is designed for dissimilar metals up to 750F which sounds like it's taylor made for aluminum boolit molds with stainless steel hardware. :-D May not be the ultimate sprue plate lube though if it can work its way into the cavities.

MJ

[44man]

Eat your hearts out guys. I have pint cans of moly and copper based anti seize made for high temps.
Still have to use care because they are oil based.
I use them on spark plug threads. Never, ever, put dry spark plugs in aluminum engines.

[whd45]

About to use Bullplate for the first time, glad I found this post. Thanks guys.

[Marlin Junky]

I couldn't find the Loctite brand zinc anti-seize locally but I was able to purchase a 4 ounce container of "Permatex Anti-Seize Lubricant" for 5 bucks at ACE. I was planning on just coating the stainless hardware that go with my aluminum mold to extend the life of the aluminum threads but now I'm thinking about using a tiny bit of this stuff on the underside of the sprue plate. Will it stay put or migrate into the cavities? If it does get in the cavities how do I get it out?

MJ

[jonk]

Sounds like you may cast a bit slower (and/or cooler) than I do. I used to smear boolit bases while using "un-lubed" molds. Back in the old days I would coat a mold top and sprue cutter with a number 2 pencil which needed to be reapplied multiple times during a casting session. Then I tried some Yamalube (owned an RD350 then) on my molds which were all ferrous back then (first Lee mold was torn to pieces in a matter of hours) and it worked great after I figured out how much to apply.

Fast forward a bunch of years... I can understand using an unlubed ferrous mold if casting at kind of a lazy pace, but if the goal was to cast 2-3 hundred larger (2-3 hundred grain) boolits from an aluminum mold in an evening, I couldn't do it without a premium lubricant. Then again, if my boolits don't come out as perfect as possible, they go right back in the pot. BTW, I don't apply soot to the cavities of aluminum molds anymore, I just get the blocks hotter than I used to and the result is better boolits.

MJyou're right on. I rarely do more than 30 from any given mold in a session. Usually I do about 3 molds per session, so I do 15 from one, 15 from the next, etc., then come back to the first and do 15 more, etc. As such they never get too hot. If I do occasionally get a smear... no big deal, it's not hurting anything, and it is usually not a big one. When I DO use the bullplate it is for one of my 6 cavity molds when I want to crank out a thousand at once- and really only do that for .30 cal and occasionally 8mm.

[geargnasher]

.44man, the whole problem you had with the Bullplate is with the STAINLESS-STEEL SPRUE PLATES! Just like SS barrels don't "season" like steel ones do due to almost non-existant surface porosity of SS, the Bullplate won't soak into the SS sprue plate very well, especially when cold, so surface film is the only way it can adhere. You put on way too much, on a cold plate, and some was bound to card off into the base band as the plate was moved. Try it hot, the film strength of Bullplate is very high, and even if you rub it off with a dry rag enough will be left behind to work.

Gear

[44man]

.44man, the whole problem you had with the Bullplate is with the STAINLESS-STEEL SPRUE PLATES! Just like SS barrels don't "season" like steel ones do due to almost non-existant surface porosity of SS, the Bullplate won't soak into the SS sprue plate very well, especially when cold, so surface film is the only way it can adhere. You put on way too much, on a cold plate, and some was bound to card off into the base band as the plate was moved. Try it hot, the film strength of Bullplate is very high, and even if you rub it off with a dry rag enough will be left behind to work.

Gear
I agree with you. Stainless is different but it was free. It makes great sprue plates. More work but nothing beats free when on SS. Scrap is my life! Molds have been free, just labor.

[Dannix]

Mine is manufactured by Permatex and marketed by NAPA. It's badged by both. Not cheap, $24.00 for an 8 oz bottle, but is a must have for anything that needs lubing under high heat conditions or must remain free from freezing due to corrosion. I use it on all my lug nuts and on my brake calipers when redoing my brakes. A little goes a long way and 8 oz will last me for many years.

I tried the stores like O'Reilly's and Autozone. I couldn't find a soul in either one that had ever heard of ant-seize compound or could even fathom what I was tring to tell them when I described it to them. I don't think that you will find it there.
I got mine from an Autozone if I recall correctly. I picked it up when I was changing out O2 sensors. Thanks for the tip on its non-automotive uses, Cadillo. :)

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Fluids-and-Chemicals/Lube/_/N-25qx?filterByKeyWord=Permatex+anti-seize&fromString=search

[44man]

Yes, brake calipers are home to anti seize!
I was a mechanic for years and brakes were my specialty.
It will work wonderful at the sprue pivot, just a tiny amount so it does not creep to the cavities.
It will wash up with any solvent if you screw up. It is the metal, copper, moly or zinc that does the work, not the oil carrier.
I have spray cans of graphite and moly plus a can of dry moly. They also work. You can also buy a tube of engine assembly lube, moly base.

[Cadillo]

I couldn't find the Loctite brand zinc anti-seize locally but I was able to purchase a 4 ounce container of "Permatex Anti-Seize Lubricant" for 5 bucks at ACE. I was planning on just coating the stainless hardware that go with my aluminum mold to extend the life of the aluminum threads but now I'm thinking about using a tiny bit of this stuff on the underside of the sprue plate. Will it stay put or migrate into the cavities? If it does get in the cavities how do I get it out?

MJ

That's half or less than what I had to pay for the same product at NAPA. Good Score!

I would not put it on the sprue plate except at the hinge point. I think that it will eventually smear to the edges of the cavities and cause problems. Bull Plate is very very good for this particular usage(sprue plate and blocks).

I just wipe it off the hinges with a cloth when I disassemble to clean after each session. If I had any in the cavities, I would spray the blocks with brake part or carb cleaner.

[geargnasher]

Yes, brake calipers are home to anti seize!
I was a mechanic for years and brakes were my specialty.
It will work wonderful at the sprue pivot, just a tiny amount so it does not creep to the cavities.
It will wash up with any solvent if you screw up. It is the metal, copper, moly or zinc that does the work, not the oil carrier.
I have spray cans of graphite and moly plus a can of dry moly. They also work. You can also buy a tube of engine assembly lube, moly base.

SS loves dry lube. A film of dry moly should be all you ever need on the bottom of your sprue plates.

Speaking of brakes, Permatex caliper slide grease is some amazing stuff. It can be heated to the poof point and never melt, it will just get a little foamy as it burns to a goo, and won't bleed oil at all.

I use copper and nickel anti-seize by the can at work. I have a friend that uses a lot of the gold heat-sink paste for computer processor chips, something like $600 per gram.

Gear

[JIMinPHX]

I've had the same bottle of Bull plate for years, never opened it. I just wave the bottle over an up to temp mould and it works just champion. ;)


Kind of like making a very dry martini?

[pdawg_shooter]

+1 on the Permatex. It is all I ever use on molds. Great on the alignment pins in Lee molds.