Simple Question Complicated Answer

[metweezer]

If I am buying ammo for my 9mm there are not too many options. I'll either purchase FMJ or JHP. 115 gr or maybe 124 or even 147. No matter whatever 9mm bullet I buy it is going to fit in my chamber and I'll be able to fire it. Why is it so complicated when I want to cast my own boolits? Why aren't all the molds calibrated in .356 diameter? I want to get a Lee 6 cavity mold TL 356 124 gr RN, but, from what I am reading on here, it seems that there are a lot of hoops to jump thru before I know if that is the right size or not. I have read some of the "help" posts that the experienced casters have posted but it still seems like some of this stuff is in a foreign language. Any help would be greatly appreciated (if is is dumbed down enough to get through my thick skull). Thanks, Steve

[462]

A question and a suggestion:
Do you have any reloading manuals? If not, you need to get at least two, and possibly more, with at least one of them being a Lyman Reloading Handbook. You can add one of the four editions of Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook to the list, to boot.

[runfiverun]

factory ammo is made to saami specs to fit the chambers of factory handguns cut to basically the same specs.
if the bullet makers don't make their jaxketed stuff small enough to shoot nobody will buy it.

now since this is a cast boolit sight you need to make your boolits fit your gun.
that will entail finding out if the bbl is really 355 or is it 357 or even 358? [more likely] this affects diameter.
and the shape of the throat? is it cut with a 1.5* or 11* angle. this will affect seating depth.
are you using a fast powder? you can bump up a softer boolit for a split second which may or may not make it obturate properly before it is outta the bbl.
or a slower one that will get you more velocity unless the boolit is too small, or is squeezed down by your tight spot under the frame.
which you would most likely have found, if you'd pushed a slug down the bbl.

[Bwana]

"Why is it so complicated when I want to cast my own boolits?"

Because they will be "your" boolits. You get to make them however you want. You get to make them so that they perform well in your firearm. You alone will be responsible.
Isn't that great. I like being in charge of as much of my life as I can; still not as much as I'd like. With my boolits, bullets, and rounds; it's all me.
One more thing, "this thing of ours" is not just a science it's also an art. So follow a formula and throw in some magic and get busy.

[Leadforbrains]

"Why is it so complicated when I want to cast my own boolits?"

Because they will be "your" boolits. You get to make them however you want. You get to make them so that they perform well in your firearm. You alone will be responsible.
Isn't that great. I like being in charge of as much of my life as I can; still not as much as I'd like. With my boolits, bullets, and rounds; it's all me.
One more thing, "this thing of ours" is not just a science it's also an art. So follow a formula and throw in some magic and get busy.

Well said!:drinks:

[Echo]

And slug your barrel! Failing that, size booolits larger & larger until they won't chamber, and back up one step. I like to counsel loading boolits as large as will reliably chamber in your auto-loader, and let the barrel size them to the exact size, on firing - 9mm's are notorious for NOT being on-SAAMI in their groove diameter. Can be anything from .355 up.

[mooman76]

It's not really that complicated. Just take it a step at a time till you get it figured out.

[GaryN]

You can just cast out of any mold made for that caliber and get boolits that will come out of the end of the barrel. If you fit the boolits to the gun, then you get way better accuracy most of the time. If you slug a few barrels you will be surprised how different some of the barrels are. I have a 44 magnum that slugs at .4311. Besides that, it is all part of the fun.

[220swiftfn]

Well, think about it this way, if you don't mind boolits hitting the target sideways, it IS that simple!!!:bigsmyl2:


That being said, 9mm is one of the more difficult ones to get dialed in, so don't get discouraged, and read the threads that are going to get an idea what's working for those that have "been there and done that"......


Dan

[MtGun44]

The fundamental issue is that the hard jacket will grip the rifling well with a significantly
undersized j-bullet, AND will not leave much coating on the bore, even when undersized.
Pistol barrels (especially 9mm) vary a lot in diameter, but with jacketed bullets, this is
OK.

If you don't have a really good fit with a lead alloy boolit, and a good lubricant, the softer
lead alloy can't grip the rifling properly and won't spin well enough to hit the target straight
or very close to where intended.

J-bullets, due to the very high strength of the jacket material, can survive and work when
they don't fit well. Soft lead alloy boolits cannot, so if you want the price and performance
benefits of lead alloy boolits, you do need to fit them accurately to YOUR individual gun. But
if you do get them fitted well, of a good design & lube, and at the proper velocity, things can work
out well. The price of cheap boolits is the need to fit them closely to your particular barrel
diameter.

Bill

[ku4hx]

If I am buying ammo for my 9mm there are not too many options. I'll either purchase FMJ or JHP. 115 gr or maybe 124 or even 147. No matter whatever 9mm bullet I buy it is going to fit in my chamber and I'll be able to fire it. Why is it so complicated when I want to cast my own boolits? Why aren't all the molds calibrated in .356 diameter? I want to get a Lee 6 cavity mold TL 356 124 gr RN, but, from what I am reading on here, it seems that there are a lot of hoops to jump thru before I know if that is the right size or not. I have read some of the "help" posts that the experienced casters have posted but it still seems like some of this stuff is in a foreign language. Any help would be greatly appreciated (if is is dumbed down enough to get through my thick skull). Thanks, Steve

At the extremes, it's kind of like cooking. You can buy a standard corporation-prepared food out of a box that satisfies the "average" pallet, or you can learn to cook, buy all the ingredients separately and customize your results into a gourmet meal. The former is quick and easy; the latter takes time, study and practice.

The thing is, most people would rather eat a well prepared meal than a McDonald's Happy Meal. Well, not my 9yo grandson and his picky-eater mom.

It all depends on your level of passion and commitment. You have only yourself to satisfy and that will guide your decision to cast or not. I've been casting for well over 40 years and I view all the various steps and such as preparing for a well deserved voyage. For me, getting there is often the most enjoyable part; working the craft I spent so much time learning and perfecting. In a sense it's a true labor of love.

[Bret4207]

If I am buying ammo for my 9mm there are not too many options. I'll either purchase FMJ or JHP. 115 gr or maybe 124 or even 147. No matter whatever 9mm bullet I buy it is going to fit in my chamber and I'll be able to fire it. Why is it so complicated when I want to cast my own boolits? Why aren't all the molds calibrated in .356 diameter? I want to get a Lee 6 cavity mold TL 356 124 gr RN, but, from what I am reading on here, it seems that there are a lot of hoops to jump thru before I know if that is the right size or not. I have read some of the "help" posts that the experienced casters have posted but it still seems like some of this stuff is in a foreign language. Any help would be greatly appreciated (if is is dumbed down enough to get through my thick skull). Thanks, Steve

If it's too much trouble, if it seems like a too much to go through, if shooting and adjusting and farting around for months getting things like you want them isn't your bag, if you're just a product of todays environment and want instant gratification then it's no issue. Either keep shooting jacketed or buy commercial cast and be satisfied with so-so results. Cast isn't for everyone, just as building your own guitar or growing your own food isn't. No shame in it.

BTW- most moulds for 9mm DO drop around .356, which is often too small.

[gray wolf]

BRET4207 + 1 and to the point.
I will add if you don't have the time to do it right--
when will you have the time to do it over ?

[metweezer]

Thank you all so much for responding. I am reading all I can to get up to speed. I want, so much, to be able to cast my own boolits. I just don't want to buy a mold and find out that it is useless in my SR9C. I only plan of casting 9mm as the only pistols I plan on ever buying are 9's. I know that with this hobby, that could change. So I guess my next stop is slugging my barrel before anything else. Thanks again for all the help.

[cajun shooter]

It seems to me that you are on the fence about the art of casting. If you are not shaking and nervous when you are around reloading and casting equipment, then you may just be a shooter and no more. There is not a thing wrong with that either. You may want to read the sticky section and find the article posted by Glen Fryxell.
Your statement about only casting and loading 9mm also tells me that you may be new to the gun sports. Read and buy a few books as the other members have suggested and don't feel you need to do it all in a day. If you have a local store that you buy from for reloading, ask them if they know of any men who cast in your area. Try to make contact and ask if you may observe his casting sometime. I am in no way trying to discourage you. I am saying that you should not feel bad if you buy your bullets. I shoot in three cowboy SASS clubs that hold matches once a month. That is three matches every month. Out of all the members of the three clubs, they only have two of us who cast bullets. That is well over 200 shooters. The rest except for two or three who have plenty of money and buy factory ammo are reloaders who buy the bullets that they load. If you decide to cast then welcome to the sport. Take Care and the Best of Luck to you.

[Centaur 1]

The fundamental issue is that the hard jacket will grip the rifling well with a significantly
undersized j-bullet, AND will not leave much coating on the bore, even when undersized.
Pistol barrels (especially 9mm) vary a lot in diameter, but with jacketed bullets, this is
OK.

If you don't have a really good fit with a lead alloy boolit, and a good lubricant, the softer
lead alloy can't grip the rifling properly and won't spin well enough to hit the target straight
or very close to where intended.

J-bullets, due to the very high strength of the jacket material, can survive and work when
they don't fit well. Soft lead alloy boolits cannot, so if you want the price and performance
benefits of lead alloy boolits, you do need to fit them accurately to YOUR individual gun. But
if you do get them fitted well, of a good design & lube, and at the proper velocity, things can work
out well. The price of cheap boolits is the need to fit them closely to your particular barrel
diameter.

Bill

Very good explanation. I have a .356" and a .358" Lee sizing dies and I just use whichever one the gun likes. I have 2 pocket sized .380's, one barrel is .355" and the other is .3573". The smaller barrel likes an oal of .880" and the larger uses a .938" cartridge. My boolit is the RD TL100 grain, I lube once then I store them in a peanut butter jar. I keep 2 other jars labeled .356 and .358, when I start running low on 1 size boolit I'll just size and lube some more.

[Jack Stanley]

If you buy a mold and find it is useless for what you want , you will have done about the same thing as many of us . It's a rather simple formula really ..... you buy the mold tinker with it and since it doesn't give one-hole groups you buy another mold and try it then another ............... Or you like the bullet you have but want to do "something else" with the bullet hunting , bowling pins etc .

Buy it and try to make it work , sometimes it's easier than other times :D When the man says check the size of your barrel .... that's a good thing to start with . When he says read load manuals ..... that's good too . I try to structure my loading the way Gray Wolf put it . :lol:

Jack

[mdi]

If I were tutoring you, I'd tell you to get Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook (3rd Edition if you can find one). Lots of basic info. Also The ABCs of reloading has a section on Cast Bullets, and is very good. As for molds, get a 2 cavity mold; easier to learn with, fewer probs than a gang mold. You will need a micrometer (a 1" mic. is better than narrow bladed calipers) Then you need to know the barrel groove diameter; slug your bbl (relatively easy). Depending on bbl measurements and cast diameter, you prolly won't need to size T/L bullets. Make up some dummy rounds with your newly cast bullets and make sure they feed and chamber properly. If possible, take out the bbl and use that as a guage. The 9mm P is a high presure round and I've read many posts about casting probs for that cal. (If you have an old 38 Special laying around I'd say start casting fer that to get the hang and easier success). Another idea is to purchase a few bullets of different diameters. For example; Beartooth bullets has a 120 gr 9mm sized from .355" to .358". Reload a few of each size to determine which shoots best in your gun...

[Wayne Smith]

One very significant point has yet to be mentioned, so I will. In the 9mm you are dealing with a high pressure cartridge. That's pretty much by definition. This causes complications because you are stressing the alloy pretty much to it's limit when you load for this cartridge. Condom bullets are much harder and can take the strain much more easily.

Stepping back (or up, depending on point of view) to the 45ACP puts you in the world of low pressure cartridges. Complications, but different ones and much more forgiving. In revolvers the 38 Special is notoriously easy to load, to the extent that it is recommended as a beginning point for new casters. Again, a low pressure cartridge. Besides, with revolvers you don't have to chase your brass, and an old model 10 usually comes rather inexpensively.

[Char-Gar]

This stuff is NOT COMPLICATED! This board is chock full of folks who like to talk about the finer points and the theory of such stuff, making it sound more complicated than it truly is.

Buy a copy of the Lyman 'Cast Bullet Handbook and study it. It will have all the information your really need. Follow that and then come back here is you have problems or want to go deeper. Hanging around here without a fundamental knowledge of the craft will drive you batty.

[alamogunr]

I'm going to give you the other side of using cast boolits. I bought 2 Ruger P95's for my sons. They are over occupied with careers, family, etc. and have little time for shooting. I also bought 3 Lee molds following various recommendations on this forum. One was the .356-120-TC for 9mm, although it cast a little large with my WW and tin. One was .358-105-SWC and the third was .358-125-RF. I cast about 100 of each and just tumble lubed them and loaded w/o sizing. I only loaded about 50-60 of each example of boolit over a mid load of Unique and went to the range.

I shot every one of those loads thru both Rugers and never had a hiccup. I can't comment on accuracy except to say that they all stayed on a 8 1/2 X 11 sheet of paper at 25 yards. That is about the limit of my shooting ability anyway. Yes there was a little leading in each barrel but not severe.

With a little development, I think the .358-125-RF would make a very good recreational load. If I can get one of the pistols back from either one of the sons, I'll go into it a little more and try to eliminate the leading. May require conventional lube but I'm not inclined to size at this point.

My point is that before you get all wound up in the minute details of casting, see if something simple works in your gun. After you have had some fun, the other may come more easily.