Help Identifying Alloy

[skullmount]

Hello all,

I have been a lurker off and on for a while....and decided to jump in !


I have some extruded stuff 5/8 by 3/8 by 12" long (approx) that is marked
"National Lead Co FS1336" I have Googled and could not find anything that would help me identify this stuff.

Anyone here have any insight ? ... or get me going in the right direction !

Thanks, Skullmount

[9.3X62AL]

Welcome to the board, Skullmount.

A little redneck boolit metal analysis first......does it "ring" when dropped on concrete, or just "thud" with a dull sound? "Thud" often means unalloyed lead, the "ring" indicates presences of tin or tin/antimony. Also, a thumbnail will leave an impression in unalloyed lead--alloys used for smokeless boolits are less yielding.

Short of using a lead hardness tester (redneck high tech method), that's about the best this here social science major can come up with.

[MT Gianni]

I would be willing to test some if you mailed me a sample. I have the cabintree tester so would need a couple of flat sided pieces. PM if interested, Gianni.

[skullmount]

Al,


Its pretty much a "thud" when it hits the floor.

[9.3X62AL]

Hmmmm.......might be unalloyed lead. Try the "thumbnail test", see if you can dent it with that method. If so, that's further "evidence" of unalloyed lead--but not conclusive. The offer made by Gianni is a fine one, and such tests give a very accurate idea of relative hardness of an alloy--from which an inference can be made about its metallurgy as far as boolit casting and shooting is concerned.

If you have a metals dealer in your area, an inquiry there might yield info on "National Lead Co." and/or its serial numbering/labeling you gave in your first post on this thread.

Your metal is starting to sound like unalloyed lead, which muzzle-loaders prize highly for their shooting activities. Unalloyed lead is ALWAYS desireable to have around for alloying purposes.

[fourarmed]

A year or so ago I got some sticks of alloy from the National Lead Co., which I believe is no longer in business. I inquired of the board, and received a PM from Alloy, who is listed as having only one post, so he may not read the board. He told me that he had contacted the company years ago and found that the 111 alloy was 50/50 lead and tin. The 666 alloy was 39% tin, 1% antimony, and 60% lead. Are either of these numbers on your bars?

[454PB]

"The 666 alloy was 39% tin, 1% antimony, and 60% lead. Are either of these numbers on your bars?"

Isn't that auto body lead/solder?

[ron brooks]

Sounds like a "devilish" alloy to me.

Well, some one HAD to say it. :-D

Ron

[GLL]

National Lead Company is now known as NL Industries. The lead/solder products are sold by their Taracorp division. Give them a call and see if they can provide info on the old FS1336 code.

www.taracorp.com


Jerry

[Ricochet]

Yep, it's the alloy of the beast.

[montana_charlie]

If you have a thermometer, read this...
http://www.bulletmetals.net/thermometry.htm
CM

[skullmount]

A year or so ago I got some sticks of alloy from the National Lead Co., which I believe is no longer in business. I inquired of the board, and received a PM from Alloy, who is listed as having only one post, so he may not read the board. He told me that he had contacted the company years ago and found that the 111 alloy was 50/50 lead and tin. The 666 alloy was 39% tin, 1% antimony, and 60% lead. Are either of these numbers on your bars?
"National Lead Co FS1336"

[skullmount]

National Lead Company is now known as NL Industries. The lead/solder products are sold by their Taracorp division. Give them a call and see if they can provide info on the old FS1336 code.

www.taracorp.com


Jerry


Jerry,

Thanks for the link !

I called the 800 number from the site....and the guy on the phone looked a bit...asked me to get back with him tomorrow.....sounds like the archives is where he is going !

[Dye]

Hello all,

I have been a lurker off and on for a while....and decided to jump in !


I have some extruded stuff 5/8 by 3/8 by 12" long (approx) that is marked
"National Lead Co FS1336" I have Googled and could not find anything that would help me identify this stuff.

Anyone here have any insight ? ... or get me going in the right direction !

Thanks, Skullmount

Skullmount
You have body solder for leading cars. Sould be 40%-60% tin lead or
30-60 tin,lead .

Be carefull Dye

[skullmount]

Skullmount
You have body solder for leading cars. Sould be 40%-60% tin lead or
30-60 tin,lead .

Be carefull Dye



Is there anything I can do with this stuff ? :(

[Ricochet]

Well, yeah! Use it as a source of tin in other alloys. More than about 2% tin is wasted. It'll last you a long time.

[Tom Myers]

Skullmont,

There are a couple of ways to go about this. Both involve a determination of the Specific Gravity of the unknown alloy followed by a formula to determine the percentage of tin in the alloy.

The first and easiest method to determine the SG of an alloy is simple if you have a source of Pure Lead.

Use the mould that you have that casts the heaviest bullet. and cast some bullets from the alloy in question until you have about 5, uniform, well-filled-out bullets then average their weight.

Cast 5 well filled out bullets of pure lead and average their weight.

Divide the average Lead Bullet Weight into the average Alloy Bullet Weight and Multiply by 11.345 to arrive at the specific gravity of your alloy.

5 Pure Lead bullet weights average out to 422.6 gr.
5 Alloy bullet weights average out to 317.1 grains
Specific Gravity = 317.1 / 422.6 * 11.345 =8.513

If you don't have any pure lead you can use this method:

Place a balance beam powder scale in such a way that you can hang a bullet from the pan, on a fine thread so that the bullet can be suspended just below the surface of a glass or cup full of water (preferably distilled water).

Next, Carefully weigh each of the five alloy bullets and determine an average weight for them and write that average weight down and label it as the Sample-Weight.

Take some fine thread and make a loop in one end that will slip over the pan and a slip-loop in the other end that will loop over a bullet. (Clip off any excess thread from the loops) Now, Carefully weigh each bullet and the thread and determine an average weight of each bullet and thread and write that down as the Dry-Weight.

Suspend each bullet from the pan until it is just submerged into the water and average those weights to be written down as the Wet-Weight.

Subtract the Wet-Weight from the Dry-Weight to determine the Displacement-weight of the water displaced by the average bullet. Divide that average displacement-weight into the average Sample-Weight to determine the SPECIFIC GRAVITY of your alloy.

A Theroetical Example:
5 Lyman Snover Bullets Cast from the Unknown Alloy weigh an average of 317.11 grains. So:
Sample-Weight = 317.11 gr.

The same 5 bullets weighed with the looped string averaged 317.61 gr. So:
Dry-Weight = 317.61 gr.

Suspending the 5 bullets in water produced an average weight of 280.36 gr. So:
Wet-Weight = 280.36 gr.

Dry-Weight - Wet Weight = 37.25 grains of displaced water.

Sample-Weight divided by Displacement-weight to obtain Specific Gravity:
317.11 / 37.25 = 8.5130- - The Specific Gravity of the alloy

Now if you know the specific gravity of a bi-metal alloy and you also know the two metals used in the alloy and finally if you know the Specific Gravity of each of the two metals, you can determine the percentage
of the two metals in the alloy .

The Specific Gravity of Lead is 11.345.
The Specific Gravity of Tin is 7.3.

This formula will determine the percentage of tin in a Tin/Lead alloy with a known Specific Gravity.

Let:
SG = the Specific Gravity of the alloy.
X = the ratio of tin in the alloy.
X*100 = the percentage of tin in the alloy.

The formula starts out like this:

X / 7.3 + ( 1 - X ) / 11.34 = 1 / SG = ratio of tin in the alloy.

100 * X = Percentage of Tin in the alloy.

The above formula can be simplified down to the formula below which you can use to find the percentage of Tin in any Tin/Lead alloy if you can first determine the SG or SPECFIC GRAVITY of that alloy

X = 2050 / SG - 180

2050 / 8.513 = 240.808
240.808 - 180= 60.80 or 60.1% of Tin in the alloy

Hope this helps,

Tom Myers
Precision Ballistics and Records (http://www.uslink.net/%7Etom1/)

[skullmount]

Well, yeah! Use it as a source of tin in other alloys. More than about 2% tin is wasted. It'll last you a long time.


I cast for ML only.......it will last forever, I don't see myself useing it......I try to use as close to pure lead as I can find.

I guess I need to find someone who will trade :)

[skullmount]

Skullmont,

Use the mould that you have that casts the heaviest bullet. and cast some bullets from the alloy in question until you have about 5, uniform, well-filled-out bullets.

Now, Place a balance beam powder scale in such a way that you can suspend the bullet from the............................................... ...................
Hope this helps,

Tom Myers
Precision Ballistics and Records (http://www.uslink.net/%7Etom1/)


WOW ! Thanks !

[Tom Myers]

Skullmont
Read it again, I just posted an additional method to determine the Specific Gravity

I was pretty long-winded in the previous post. Where you have a source of pure lead, it can be written down real simple:

1.Cast a slug of pure lead.
2.Cast a slug of the alloy.
3.Divide the alloy weight by the lead weight and multiply by 11.345 to get the SG.
4 Divide 2050 by the SG and subtract 180 to get the percentage of tin in the alloy


Tom

[skullmount]

Skullmont
Read it again, I just posted an additional method to determine the Specific Gravity

Tom

Tom,

The largest mold I have is a Lyman 457121, 475 grain

Next time I "fire up" I will get the info....I might need to double check my figures by posting them here......

Thank you, Skullmount :)

[skullmount]

Skullmount
You have body solder for leading cars. Sould be 40%-60% tin lead or
30-60 tin,lead .


HELP !

I brought this back to the top because I don't see myself useing this stuff, as I only cast for muzzleloaders.
Would a possible trade with someone who could use this stuff in hardcast stuff be the way to go, or should I look for another way to move the stuff......I would like to end up with as close to pure lead as I can get.

[ARKANSAS PACKRAT]

PM sent:mrgreen:
Thanks, Nick

[jhalcott]

How much of this stuff do you have?

[skullmount]

How much of this stuff do you have?


50 to 60 lbs.....just guessing. Never put it on a scale.................

[Sundogg1911]

Wow this thread makes me feel like i'm back in math class! Thank God I have a hardness tester ;-)
My Head is spinning!