Quench?

[Sneakfoot]

Hello to everyone. I'am new to this site and also new to casting boolits. I have yet to pour a single boolit, but have been doing a lot of reading. Some answers just seem hard to find and I have a few. The one I would like to ask here is, should I quench boolits for a muzzle loader? :confused:

[docone31]

I quench my balls on casting. I do not know if it does anything, but, it is an habit I got into, and do it to this day.
I do not believe lead hardens on quenching.

[mooman76]

No not needed and probably will won't work. If you are using pure lead the only thing quinching will do is cool the lead off quick. You need certain harder metals ( like antimony and arsenic)in the lead to make them harder when quinching. Typically you want soft lead anyway for MLs. What are you casting and for what? i.e. conicals, roundballs for rifle or revolver. Is there a reason you want your lead to be harder?

[Sneakfoot]

I will be shooting heavy conicals. I have a lymans' great plains rifle which I changed out the barrel to a Green Mountain, 1-28'. 50 cal. bore and grove to grove is .510. I'm still deciding which mold to buy. Any suggestions? I don't want the boolits to be hard, thats why I wanted to know if I should quench them. The lead I'll be using is from old duck decoy weights. I have remelted the lead into ingots and can scratch it with my fingernail so I figure its pure lead. Would that be a safe assumption?

[northmn]

For lead to quech harden it needs arsenic. BP cartridges used lead tin ratios for hardening bullets. As to the scratch test, it could be anything as I can scratch WW's. Contrary to common opinion WW's are relatively soft with an average BN of 9 as compared to 1-20 lead tin of 10. Considering the design of the Lymans rifle, I would think consicals could be rather uncomfortable to shoot. Its not saying much against the rifle as it is a lighter rifle with a crescent butt plate.

DP

[felix]

NO! Lead requires antimony, not arsenic to quench harden. However, the boolit composition cannot be in a "satisfied state" during cooling. This means zero slosh anytime. Either pure liquid, or pure solid. However, foreign materials such as arsenic will keep the alloy from being perfectly happy. ... felix

[waksupi]

If shooting conicals, better keep them soft. Hard is ok for round ball.

[FL-Flinter]

Arsenic will cause a Pb/Sb alloy to get harder than if it were not present. Typical alloy composition for maximum balance of hardness and mechanical strength: 0.15-0.25% As; 1.0-4.0% As; balance Pb. With that said, you do NOT want to quench any kind of projectile for use in a muzzleloader and especially a conical. Except in certain specific applications, conicals are to be cast from soft lead. Wheel weight (WW) unless otherwise stated, the use of "WW" denotes "clip-on type wheel weights, when one is taking about the softer almost pure lead "stick-on" weights, such will be noted. WW alloy is too hard as-cast without quenching for most all conicals. WW alloy can be used for "patched round balls" (PRB's) but the balls will drop larger in diameter from a mold intended for use with soft lead, typically by 0.003" to 0.007" depending on the diameter of the mold, the exact alloy composition, melt pour temperature, mold temperature, mold cooling time and rate, the cooling rate after it's dropped from mold based on the temperature when it's dropped. Common WW alloy will have a Brinnell hardness (Bhn) of 11-13 as compared to 5-7 Bhn of soft lead. When choosing to use WW alloy for PRB's, one must take into consideration the diameter of the cast ball so as to also choose a corresponding patch thickness. PRB's cast from WW alloy will not expand much, if at all, on game and are lower in mass than the same diameter PRB cast from soft lead. My advice, until you have enough experience and understanding of the methods and purposes, stick to using only soft alloy.
Mark

[Sneakfoot]

Ok! What I have gotten from you replys is, quenching pure lead does not harden it. Antimony is needed to harden lead. Quenching will just cool the lead faster.

FELIX Will you further explain what you mean by" boolit composition cannot be in a satisfied state during cooling. This means zero slosh time."

[felix]

Sneaky, it is like a marriage. Some are good, some are bad. The ideal ones share everything 100-0 percent in both directions. This is called a stable compound. The bad ones, share zip, zero in both directions and separate after the honeymoon. The exact in-the-middle ones share 50-50 and that is what we might call an IDEAL alloy, and will remain together until driven apart by an unusual circumstance. So, anything in between would be an alloy/marriage that would not take much to make a separation take place. However, a separation requires another suitor for either one or both partners. OUR alloy is a three-way circus in which all three partners HAVE TO HAVE their percentages in an EXACT proportion to be perfectly married as an alloy. LINOTYPE is one such animal. This means come hell or high water the marriage will stay intact, i.e., liquid or frozen. Temperature at sea level would not be a factor, in other words. ... felix

[white eagle]

as far as a mold go check out Tom @ Accurate Molds
I have one of his REAL bullet designs and it is without a doubt
the most accurate muzzle loading bullet mold I have
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=51-300A-D.png

[Sneakfoot]

as far as a mold go check out Tom @ Accurate Molds
I have one of his REAL bullet designs and it is without a doubt
the most accurate muzzle loading bullet mold I have
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=51-300A-D.png

What do you mean by a REAL bullet?

[mooman76]

Real is a term dubbed by R. Lee. It means Rifling Engraved At Loading. Not sure if those are the exact words but it's the meaning. When loading the slightly oversized bullet, it cuts to the size of the rifling.

[FL-Flinter]

Real is a term dubbed by R. Lee. It means Rifling Engraved At Loading. Not sure if those are the exact words but it's the meaning. When loading the slightly oversized bullet, it cuts to the size of the rifling.

No ... I'm sure he means "real bullets" and not those wannabe bullets pistol bullets wrapped in a plastic condom. :bigsmyl2:

[nanuk]

can WW be annealed to dead soft?

[hobbles]

Mornin Sneakfoot,
If you decide to water drop them, the Wife and I made a short vid on how we do it. I use WW and an 018 patch in my 54. Ya, I know, it's a highly TECHNICAL vid.

CLICKY (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v323/hobbles/movies/?action=view&current=water-drop.mp4)

[Bill*]

can WW be annealed to dead soft?

In a word....NO

[white eagle]

that is pretty much the description of real bullets
this is a group of 4 I shot two days ago
with Tom's little beauty
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v730/kempobb/1aaa.jpg,
its not a fluke or a one timer
I did just as well again today but I didn't take a pic of that group