1858 Remington cylinders

[frnkeore]

I haven't shot my Peitta very much, in part because it isn't that accurate.

I've measured the bore and groove and as most know, it's 45 Colt size and (in my oppion) way to big for the .450 cylinders that size the balls down to that size.

I've bought the reamer (BTW I'm a machinist) and what I have in mind is to ream the cylinder to 29/64 (.453125) and shoot ww or 30/1 round balls instead of pure lead with .457 or lap it up to .460 balls. I have shot .490 lead balls (176 gr)in it by running them through a tapered sizing die. It did do better with that load but, I'm hoping for 1 1/2 - 2" groups at 25 yards.

Has anyone tried this?

Frank

[Grapeshot]

You might try to replace that Pietta Barel with a custom barrel with a gain twist. Pietta or Uberti makes a target model of the '58 that does have a gain twist barrel that delivers superb accuracy. IIRC Dixie Gun Works used to have those barrels in stock.

Be careful when you ream out your cylinders. A .454 or .457 ball should have a ring of lead shaved off the ball as it enters the cylinder. You might want to champher the cylinder mouths as well. Take a look at the forcing cone on the rear end of the barrel. An 11 degree taper works well with both the round ball and conical slug.

[frnkeore]

Thanks Grapeshot,
I bought mine in new condition but w/o the box or any factory info. It is the target model with adjustable target sights. Maybe I have a gain twist? I bought it about 6-7 years ago but, have no idea how old it actually is. I'll have to check it out to see if it's gain.

What I'm after though, is to have the ball at least .001 over groove diameter. I have three 45 Colts and my BH has smaller throats (.4505) than the 625 and the RH (.452) and both guns out shoot the BH by about 1/2 the group size. I shoot a lot of breech seated PB single shots as well as fixed GC loads. And the groove size and below, will not shoot as well as .001 to .003 over size bullets.

So, I was wondering if anyone else had tried what I'm going to do. I bought 2 extra cylinder after I bought the gun so, I will have something to compare it to.

Frank

[coopieclan]

I have read (here on the forum) that Pietta sends out the cylinders a little small.
That they are afraid to make it to the original Remmington spec.
Also someone here wrote that it is ok to ream out the cylinder so that the ball engages the rifling as originally designed.

I am not taking a drill to my gun... I am a sort of hack mechanic, I don't want to ruin anything.

PS, the only time I have accuracy issues with my 1858 Pietta-Remmington is when I shoot "cowboy" cartridges through it.

Usually it shoots as well as I can aim it.
I am the weakest link.

[John Taylor]

Most of the black powder pistols from over the water come with an undersized cylinder. I started reaming them out about 30 years ago to get a little better accuracy. Another thing I tried was rounding off the edge of the cylinder so it did not leave a ring of lead but swedged the whole ball in for a better seal. When reaming the cylinder it is best to use a jig so all the chambers are running true, like this one.http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l132/johnptaylor/cylinderreaming.jpg
I have never been a believer in gain twist barrels even tho Colt made a lot of pistols that way. Can't prove a gain twist will shoot any better than a standard twist. Now days it's just another gimmick to charge more for a barrel. I have been asked many time to cut a barrel with a gain twist. Just can't bring myself to bend the sine bar on my machine.

[frnkeore]

Hi John,
How did the swage vs cut work out. I think it's a good idea. It should give more of a interference fit and make it less likely to get a cross or chain fire. How much did the reaming increase accuracy?

I plan to do my indexing off the pin. Reaming .003 it should have no problem holding center. Reamers have a hard time cutting off center unless you push them to hard. Is that a .453 reamer in your picture?

Regarding the gain twist. I maybe able to address that after my Ron Smith 13 twist 30 cal arrives in Nov. I can test it against my Douglas 14 twist. Both will have the same 32/35 chamber done by me. As close as I can get them the same, inside and out.

Frank

[John Taylor]

Hi John,
How did the swage vs cut work out. I think it's a good idea. It should give more of a interference fit and make it less likely to get a cross or chain fire. How much did the reaming increase accuracy?

I plan to do my indexing off the pin. Reaming .003 it should have no problem holding center. Reamers have a hard time cutting off center unless you push them to hard. Is that a .453 reamer in your picture?

Regarding the gain twist. I maybe able to address that after my Ron Smith 13 twist 30 cal arrives in Nov. I can test it against my Douglas 14 twist. Both will have the same 32/35 chamber done by me. As close as I can get them the same, inside and out.

Frank

The only chain fire I ever had was with an original 1858. The one at 6 o-clock went off and the ball was stuck in the loading lever. I do believe the swedging held the ball better.
The picture was taken years ago and I think it was a cartridge conversion cylinder. I use to make cylinders in 44 Colt and install with a new barrel. The last visit from BATF said I probably should not be doing it anymore so I took the advice, got plenty of work, don't need to look for trouble. Reamer should be .001" over the groove diameter.

[HMC710]

Found this old post because a customer asked me to ream out his cylinders to .451" on his Pietta 1858 clone. He has an instruction sheet, undocumented from somewhere, with the procedure to ream and polish to .451 x 1.050" deep. Sheet claims barrels are .440 Land x .451 groove and cylinders are .440".
Anyone familiar with this? Nice jig JT
Thanks

[Rojelio]

Found this old post because a customer asked me to ream out his cylinders to .451" on his Pietta 1858 clone. He has an instruction sheet, undocumented from somewhere, with the procedure to ream and polish to .451 x 1.050" deep. Sheet claims barrels are .440 Land x .451 groove and cylinders are .440".
Anyone familiar with this? Nice jig JT
Thanks
Can you post the instruction sheet?

I've got a Euroarms '58 Remmy with .448 grooves and the chambers are .444 and the chambers are out of alignment just a hair. This thing can use some serious help.

I was wondering if the chambers could be opened to one side and kill two birds with one stone.

I've got a .448 reamer and a .4528 reamer.

I need to rig up a jig like Mr. Taylor's

[Nobade]

I wonder if making a setup to linebore the cylinders while they are actually in the frame like the cartridge gun guys use wouldn't be beneficial here? That way you could move the chambers slightly and make them the right size at the same time. No need to go too deep, just enough to hold the ball and a little more. Should actually be a lot easier than doing a cartridge revolver.

While you have the barrel off, check the forcing cone to make sure it's straight, dimensioned correctly, and polished nicely. And the other end is crowned straight.

-Nobade

[John Taylor]

I wonder if making a setup to linebore the cylinders while they are actually in the frame like the cartridge gun guys use wouldn't be beneficial here? That way you could move the chambers slightly and make them the right size at the same time. No need to go too deep, just enough to hold the ball and a little more. Should actually be a lot easier than doing a cartridge revolver.
-Nobade

Requires a dummy barrel but it works good. http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l132/johnptaylor/reamingcylinder.jpg

[Rojelio]

Requires a dummy barrel but it works good. http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l132/johnptaylor/reamingcylinder.jpg

Yes!!! Thanks!! There's the answer. I'm glad there's some smarter people than me on this board. I can make a dummy barrel.

[KCSO]

Pietta IIRR uses a generic barrel for a number of guns and the twist is on the order of 1-48 which is not my prefered twist for a round ball at 900 fps. I have rebarreled or relined a number of these to a 1-18 or 1-20 twist and used a reamed and polished forcing cone with a reamed cylinder. The last one I did this way shot a 6" group with iron sights at 100 yards and would cut a ragged hole at 25 yards. For the 36's I leave the cylinder as is and line the barrel with 357 barrel stock and cut an 11 degree frocing cone will polished. For the 36 I prefer a 1-16 twist and no more than 1-20.

[johnson1942]

thanks every one for the detailed info and who to go for the work, this is a good post and replys.

[Alan]

Before you go to all that work, try a .454" ball, and a full load of 2F goex. I have an older Pietta target model, and it went from inconsistent 3-5" groups to 1 1/2 - 2" groups with just that load change.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

I have a Uberti 1858 Remington copy that John Taylor reamed out the cylinder chambers for me. It has noticeably improved RB shooting for me. Because of barrel dimensions , it was neccessary to go to a .4565 ball to get a good barrel fit and the chamber was reamed accordingly

BvT.

[bob208]

the champhering the chambers is the way i do it. even colt did it on the later models.

no one has said about the w-w balls they will not work. i have had maore then one come in with the loading leaver broken from trying to push that hard ball in. even had had a 60 army with the arbor pulled from the frame from loading w-w balls.

[bigted]

that hint on the WW balls is justification for this thread for me...the rest is just cream on the top...thanks!