Who makes a good swager/luber?

[sig2009]

I just bought a used Lyman 450 and all I can say is this thing is a piece of ****! I am using White Lube BAC swaging 200gn swc from Lyman mold 452460.

I have adjusted the sizer every which way from the highest to to lowest setting for lubing the grooves and I still get a ring of lube around the bullet around the base of the nose. Any suggestions how to get rid of this problem? If not it will be going on ebay.

[OuchHot!]

I have used a 450 for many years and recall being pretty upset with the problem that you have at the outset. There is a fine interaction between ambient temp, lube hardness, pressure on the lube screw and "hang time" in the die. Then of course there is the setting of depth of travel. Generally, I have figured out the dance for every lube except SPG on hot days. It might just be learning curve, or a real fault with your machine. The 450 has lubed lots of bullets for me. I can say my saeco is no where near as finicky.

[Shiloh]

Lubed too many thousand with my 450 to count. I wonder how many it has lubes as I am at least the third owner. I use BAC almost exclusively and don't have the issues you speak of. How much pressure are yu putting on the lube screw? I just barely bump mine.If it doesn't fill I repeat a second time with no pressure and they usually fill.

Shilioh

[sig2009]

Looks like the Lyman needs a heater in order to use BAC lube or I need a softer lube.

[462]

Don't condem the equipment or get frustrated.

Your last post may be your answer. An easy way to determine that, is to use a hair dryer or 100-Watt bulb to raise the lube's temperature.

As mentoned, don't overdue the pressure. When lubing that boolit, I don't need to apply more pressure till the fourth boolit. Even then, its voids can be filled by rotating it 90-degrees and sending it through, again.

When it's time to apply more pressure, the wrench shouldn't need any more movement than from 12:00 to 11:00.

Experiment and you'll get there.

[sig2009]

Don't condem the equipment or get frustrated.

Your last post may be your answer. An easy way to determine that, is to use a hair dryer or 100-Watt bulb to raise the lube's temperature.

As mentoned, don't overdue the pressure. When lubing that boolit, I don't need to apply more pressure till the fourth boolit. Even then, its voids can be filled by rotating it 90-degrees and sending it through, again.

When it's time to apply more pressure, the wrench shouldn't need any more movement than from 12:00 to 11:00.

Experiment and you'll get there.

I'm through playing with this thing. I spent 8 hours and it still does not work. I warmed the lube in the sizer with the hair drier and all it did was make the lube flow easier and I had more of a mess with lube on the top of the bullet than before. I tried the pressure thing. If I don't screw it down hard the lube does not flow and there is none in the grooves.

I plan to use the Lyman as the sizer and wet lube the boolits with liquid Alox in a sandwich bag and I am also calling Lyman tomorrow expressing my dislike for their product. Too bad Lyman doesn't have the same "NO BS Warranty" that Dillon does!

[462]

Are you applying pressure prior to pressing the boolit into the die? If so, that is incorrect. Press the boolit into the die, then apply pressure.

Just asking.

[noylj]

I stopped lubrisizing my pistol bullets decades ago and went to pan-lubing and currently tumble-lubing.
Can you load an as-cast bullet and have it chamber?
Re: Lubrisizer--it has been decades, but I would adjust (as I am sure you have done) so the upper most lube groove just barely even sees the first set of holes. I would have to re-apply pressure about every two bullets, but I was using 50:50.
Is the lube coming up onto the nose evenly all the way around (sizing die too large for as-cast bullet diameter) or coming up in one or two locations (indicating a damaged sizing die)?
It has to be you or the machine (damaged part, improper set-up, dimension off, etc.).
I hate lubrisizers, but they do work and have for 60 years or more.

[HangFireW8]

Lyman will just tell you that model has been discontinued for many years. On top of that your sizer die may be from 2009 or 1939. The number of holes and spacing are different.

Like the last guy said, the challenge on that boolit is to just barely get the groove to the hole. I've done it with the 452460 and my 4500 so it can be done. And it was worth it... for me. If it doesn't work for you there are other options. But if you blame the tool, 4 or 5 generations of users will make fun of you.

[sig2009]

Are you applying pressure prior to pressing the boolit into the die? If so, that is incorrect. Press the boolit into the die, then apply pressure.

Just asking.

I did it both ways. Same result. Lube in the bottom groove. No lube in the top groove and lube all over the base of the nose. The operating instructions from Lyman say that if that happends to bring the plunger screw down. I have it down so far now that there are only a couple threads holding it on to the unit. I can't go any lower!

[sig2009]

I stopped lubrisizing my pistol bullets decades ago and went to pan-lubing and currently tumble-lubing.
Can you load an as-cast bullet and have it chamber?
Re: Lubrisizer--it has been decades, but I would adjust (as I am sure you have done) so the upper most lube groove just barely even sees the first set of holes. I would have to re-apply pressure about every two bullets, but I was using 50:50.
Is the lube coming up onto the nose evenly all the way around (sizing die too large for as-cast bullet diameter) or coming up in one or two locations (indicating a damaged sizing die)?
It has to be you or the machine (damaged part, improper set-up, dimension off, etc.).
I hate lubrisizers, but they do work and have for 60 years or more.

Lube is comming all the way around onto the base of the nose evenly. Bullets casted at .452/.453. Sizing die is .451.

[sig2009]

Lyman will just tell you that model has been discontinued for many years. On top of that your sizer die may be from 2009 or 1939. The number of holes and spacing are different.

Like the last guy said, the challenge on that boolit is to just barely get the groove to the hole. I've done it with the 452460 and my 4500 so it can be done. And it was worth it... for me. If it doesn't work for you there are other options. But if you blame the tool, 4 or 5 generations of users will make fun of you.

The 4500 is basically the same machine as the 450 except for the handle and linkage. I have the parts diagram and they both take the same number replacement parts. The sizer die I ordered from Planet Optics last week so it is new Lyman. So make fun of me. I had one of the infamous Audi 5000's back in the day that had all the complaints of taking off on it's own. Well guess what I never had that problem happen to me so I knew the other people it happend to were crazy!

[MT Chambers]

You can have the same problems at first with a Star as well, until you are confident that every bullet/lube combo has a "sweet spot", of proper pressure, heat, etc.....patience my friend!!

[MT Gianni]

Lube is comming all the way around onto the base of the nose evenly. Bullets casted at .452/.453. Sizing die is .451.

If your lube is evenly spread at the back of the nose your stroke is too deep. Are you using Ly dies of RCBS? I believe RCBS occasionally need some holes plugged with lead shot as they are on two different heights in the sizer die. There is several stickies on this.

[wallenba]

Bevel base boolit? If so, put a disk of styrofoam from a meat packing tray from the supermarket in the die. Use an empty case to cut it out. Then cut back on the pressure a bit.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

If your lube is evenly spread at the back of the nose your stroke is too deep. Are you using Ly dies of RCBS? I believe RCBS occasionally need some holes plugged with lead shot as they are on two different heights in the sizer die. There is several stickies on this.

I also think this is one of your problems.

another thing to try once you get the stroke set right is:
get all the lube cleaned off the die post.
start with no pressure on the lube reservior,
push the boolit down into the die and hold
the handle so there is some pressure on the boolit from the top punch.
apply some pressure lube reservior,
then back off the pressure screw to 'unpressurize' the lube reservior.
then lift the boolit out.
If you get a well lubed boolit to your liking, then the problem
is the Pressure/heat kind of thing and you just need to find
that happy medium. But if you still have problems, then there
is something else wrong ??? factory defect in the die ?
Jon

[Edward429451]

That's what I was going to say, keep a little pressure on the boolit as you give it some lube.

[Bret4207]

The 4500 is basically the same machine as the 450 except for the handle and linkage. I have the parts diagram and they both take the same number replacement parts. The sizer die I ordered from Planet Optics last week so it is new Lyman. So make fun of me. I had one of the infamous Audi 5000's back in the day that had all the complaints of taking off on it's own. Well guess what I never had that problem happen to me so I knew the other people it happend to were crazy!

No one is making fun of you. Calm down, you either have a mechanical issue or an operator error issue. We all do it. You've gotten some good advise. Just take a breath, slow down and re-read the suggestions. My 450 is not my favorite sizer, but it works. When you say "lube on the base of the nose" you mean the forward portion of the boolit right? You don't mean the base or bottom of the boolit? If it's on the base of the nose of a SWC type design that usually comes from the boolit going in the die a little deep or an ejector that's marred or undersized. What boolit are you sizing?

[sig2009]

Well after a good nights sleep I finally figured it out. The adjustment screw that controls the depth of the bullet sizing was broken in half but you couldn't see it until you took it all the way out. That is the reason I could not adjust the depth. I took the longer part of the screw and screwed it into the sizer and then just dropped the smaller part through the rod and let it float on top. Success and I can now adjust the depth. Ordered a new screw from Lyman.[smilie=w:
Thanks for all the help!

[OuchHot!]

I was hoping it was something like that. I think most of us using the 450 probably have spent more "quality time" learning its quirks than we may recall. I use mostly 50:50 in it now and just bump the lube screw slightly while holding the bullet down in the die....I forgot even that I was doing that. Harder lubes, I do differently. I cussed a lot at first but like most of us, the 450 trained us and we get good service.

[Bret4207]

Glad you got it figured out.