Powder + card wad + PSB + boolit in 45-70

[Char-Gar]

I have been using PSB as a filler with good results for a time now, but in the back of my mind, there is always a little concern about the itty bitty balls mixing with powder charges of large kernel powders. Yep..I use compression and maybe that takes care of the situation, but there is that little voice telling me some PSB might be in the powder, at least the top layer.

Soooo...Why not put in the powder charge through a long drop tube, seat a card wad over the powder and then the PSB high enough to give correct compression.

If there is no air between the wad and the bullet there should be no problems..right? Am I missing something here?

In the old Govt. carbine loads (55 grs of black) for the 45-70, they used a couple of "jute" wads to occupy the extra space created by the smaller powder charge and had no problems. They also tried, just shoving the bullet down farther as well.

I think I am on safe ground here, but want to check on the collective wisdom of the wise one, before I take the plunge.

[Bass Ackward]

I have been using PSB as a filler with good results for a time now, but in the back of my mind, there is always a little concern about the itty bitty balls mixing with powder charges of large kernel powders.

Chargar,

Good results for a time?

You should be OK. But with the card, compression "needs" to take place to ensure no air space. .... Then you risk too much compression. You could break those large kernals you want to protect.

Tp does the same thing and is flexible if things aren't perfectly level for some reason. Less chance of changing your burn rate and getting a wider ES.

[Char-Gar]

Bass..Sorry about the poor turn of a phrase. I mean to say, I have been using PSB for two years with consistant good results.

Thanks for the TP tip. I used TP to hold the powder charge against the primer back in the 60's with no problems. I was shooting a 38-55 Sharps Borchardt and used no filler. I always assumed the tissue burned quickly and didn't have the effect of a wad and dead air space. That assumption may be wrong and I have no imperical proof, just a guess and a feeling.

[wills]

Card and vegetable fiber wads up to .500 thickness, ought to occupy enough space.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories/partList.aspx?catId=18&subId=212&styleId=1135&PageSize=10&Page=5

[Bob S]

I used TP in 45-70 in the 60's also. Two full sheets over 21 grains of 2400; 400 grain cast, with regular Rem 9-1/2 primers. The stuff does not burn; does not even char. You could walk downrange and pick it up and re-use it. (I never did ... even though I was a poor undergraduate student, I could afford to buy TP and not have to "recycle" it.) Those loads would make one jagged hole at 100 yards from my circa 1890 model 1888 long rifle.

I also used (and still use) 1/4 sheet of TP over 40 to 42 grains 4831 in 30-06 (with 311284). Samo-samo. It is not consumed, just blown out. I can recall the first match I used this load; a 300-yard match at Westfield, Mass. Did very well, so I had a small group taking notes about the load. I made it a point to tell them they needed to use *PINK* TP. :-)

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[Bob S]

In days when I was shooting round balls from muzzle loaders, I was using denim for patches, very successfully. One time my bride bought some denim home from the millinary for me, and I couldn't hit the the barn from *inside* the barn. Retreiving the patches and "reading them" told the story. Patches were burned through, even though it was the same weight denim that I had been using: yup, the stuff was 50-50 cotton/ rayon, or some kind of "~on", instead of the 100% cotton that I had bought. The moral is, expect synthetic polymers (Dacron, Rayon, polytester) to be consumed, or at least melted; natural fibers (including cellulose) probably not. Thinking about radiant panel tests of fabrics (I'm in the fire protection business, among other things), natural fabrics and cellulose (wood and paper products) can survive a moderate radiant flux for a relatively long period before they begin to char and eventually self-ignite. Synthetics, OTH, melt and burst into flames at low flux, and very quickly... which is why you don't want your baby's clothes to be polyester, and why we banned polyesters from uniforms to be worn in Navy engineering spaces.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[drinks]

I just use the Lyman recommended wad, a 5/8" square of 1/4" thick polyester quilt batting, the smallest roll is about $3 and should last for years.