Six Cavity Casting Technique

[jimkim]

Have any of you noticed a difference in boolit quality by pouring the cavities in certain orders? I used my new Ranch dog mould for the first time yesterday. I started out pouring from the first to last mould. I'd have two to three wrinkled bullets per pass. Then I tried pouring the middle cavities first and working out. The bullets were still inconsistent. I finally ended up pouring the boolits in a 135246 then 246135 order. This consistently produced good uniform bullets. It's probably silly to a lot of people, but I pay attention to the little details when I do something. Do any of you have other tips on using six cavity moulds.

[dragonrider]

I always start with the hole closest to the hinge pin and work to the other end. 2, 4 or 6 cavity I always pour the same.

[Old Caster]

I only have two Lee 6 cavities and hardly use them but the best results I got was to start at 1 and then change to start at 6 and back again. I don't like to do that because it interupts my rythym but one end of the mold will be too hot and the other too cold if I don't. The nice part of these molds is their lack of weight and the amount of bullets that can be cast in a sitting but they take special or at least different attention to operate.

[UtopiaTexasG19]

I also have a 6 cavity Ranch Dog I haven't tried out yet and wonder if the "pre-heating technique" of the mold might make a difference. Dipping the corner of a smaller Lee mold in the liquid lead heats up the whole block pretty fast but on a longer mold I wonder what a better tecnique might be in this case? My lead pot is not large enough to dip the whole bottom of a 6 cavity mold into along any whole strip of the mold.

[soldierbilly1]

I've had unusual problems similar to this with new 6 banger molds. After the 5th or 6th use the 6 banger acted like a normal mold, the order poured did not make any difference. I am assuming you are ladeling the melt in.
Interesting to say the least. With one 358 Lee mold I dip and pour 3 and then re-dip and pour the last 3. seems to work better.
In my limited experience, the sixer molds are really a little bit freakier than the Lyman or Lee deuces. More funny stuff seems to happen with the sixers. My lyman 2 shotters are the most consistent, least problems, especially the bases. YMMV.
billy boy

[jimkim]

I use a drip-o-matic. It all went really fast once I developed muscle memory. I'm thinking the reason this worked so well is because the mould stayed more evenly heated. I also use a piece of 4x4(in this case it was my buddy Glenns plywood mould-rest) to rest my big moulds on when casting with them. It helps keep the mould a consistent distance from the spout, and with my 4-cav Lyman it also saves my wrist.

I did follow Michael's advice on preheating by pouring one cavity at a time. I'm going to try a hotplate to help pre-heat it next time.

[462]

Inconsistant boolits are the result of a mould that is not at its optimun operating temperature. Heating a mould on a hot plate makes all the difference in the world.

I have two Lee six-cavity moulds -- a 158-grain handgun and a 180-grain rifle -- and get keeper boolits with the first drop. The same goes for four and two cavities.

[white eagle]

my first cast with a Ranch Dog 6 pack
yielded wonderful boolits
just....I suspect ,.need to pay attention to your technique

[geargnasher]

I just preheat in my steel electrical box "mould oven" on the hot plate, then start running down the line. I use a grill thermometer from the Home Depot fastened through a hole in the top and once the air in the oven is up to the temp I want, I let the mould continue to heat-soak for at least ten minutes. I always pour farthest to nearest, that way the softest sprues are nearest the end of the sprue plate with the least mechanical advantage. The six-bangers are such heat-sinks that once you get them going, it doesn't matter that much how long the first or last pour was in the blocks. I use a bottom-pour pot, and can usually fill all six in under five seconds, so tell me how much difference that makes to a target? I know I can't tell the difference in hardness from a water-dropped batch, but I'm careful to only drop ones cast at the correct temperature and tempo into the water, any variation in pace gets the next pour or two air-cooled for remelt or plinking.


Gear

[MikeS]

Jim, was this all in one casting session? It almost sounds like the first few casts going from front to back, or back to front that the mould wasn't up to temp, and by the time you started varying the cavities filled that the mould was finally up to temp. I preheat my moulds on a hotplate, and usually pour from the outer most cavity to the inner most, unless a particular mould likes to be filled in the opposite direction (some moulds can be funny like that, liking one way, or the other, most don't care). I bottom pour, and it's just easier for me to see that everything is lined up right when I go from the outer cavity inward.

I've been meaning to build a mould 'oven' like Gear has, it sounds like it might get the moulds up to temp quicker and/or more evenly than just placing them on the hotplate. I use a flat pan on the hotplate, I don't place the moulds directly on the coils, as I seem to remember hearing somewhere that if you leave an electric burner on with nothing on it that they can shatter, and while I'm remembering this from years ago, and it's quite possible that it's no longer a problem, I'm not going to take a chance that it might still be true! When I make my 'oven' I think I'll make it a self contained item, with a bottom along with the sides, and top so I don't need to have the flat pan on the hotplate, just the oven.

[dromia]

NOE's mould thermometer is excellent at helping you keep your mould at optimum temperature.

[bobthenailer]

First i pre heat all of my moulds before casting ! the lee 6 cavitys moulds require a little fine tuning of the mould to work correctly & a higher pot temp to cast well . the 5 Saeco 8 cavities moulds work flawlesley
I pour the first hole closest to the handel hinge and pull the mould to me , i also use a mould guide with a adj stop to stop the rearward movement of the mould that way the the first hole is allways lined up .

[Bret4207]

I just preheat in my steel electrical box "mould oven" on the hot plate, then start running down the line. I use a grill thermometer from the Home Depot fastened through a hole in the top and once the air in the oven is up to the temp I want, I let the mould continue to heat-soak for at least ten minutes. I always pour farthest to nearest, that way the softest sprues are nearest the end of the sprue plate with the least mechanical advantage. The six-bangers are such heat-sinks that once you get them going, it doesn't matter that much how long the first or last pour was in the blocks. I use a bottom-pour pot, and can usually fill all six in under five seconds, so tell me how much difference that makes to a target? I know I can't tell the difference in hardness from a water-dropped batch, but I'm careful to only drop ones cast at the correct temperature and tempo into the water, any variation in pace gets the next pour or two air-cooled for remelt or plinking.


Gear

I do the same with a ladle or BP. Those big moulds lose heat fast, every second it's empty really does matter.

[imashooter2]

I pour most from front to back, but I have a 311440 group buy clone that for whatever reason likes to be poured back to front.

As far as pre heating, no special ovens or hot plates for me. I lay the mold across the top of my Lee pot when I plug it in. When the lead melts, the mold is hot and first cast is good.

[jimkim]

Jim, was this all in one casting session? It almost sounds like the first few casts going from front to back, or back to front that the mould wasn't up to temp, and by the time you started varying the cavities filled that the mould was finally up to temp. I preheat my moulds on a hotplate, and usually pour from the outer most cavity to the inner most, unless a particular mould likes to be filled in the opposite direction (some moulds can be funny like that, liking one way, or the other, most don't care). I bottom pour, and it's just easier for me to see that everything is lined up right when I go from the outer cavity inward.

I've been meaning to build a mould 'oven' like Gear has, it sounds like it might get the moulds up to temp quicker and/or more evenly than just placing them on the hotplate. I use a flat pan on the hotplate, I don't place the moulds directly on the coils, as I seem to remember hearing somewhere that if you leave an electric burner on with nothing on it that they can shatter, and while I'm remembering this from years ago, and it's quite possible that it's no longer a problem, I'm not going to take a chance that it might still be true! When I make my 'oven' I think I'll make it a self contained item, with a bottom along with the sides, and top so I don't need to have the flat pan on the hotplate, just the oven.

It was in one session, but it lasted a little better than an hour. I went back several times and tried front to back, etc, but the results were about the same. I had fewer rejects, but I still had some. Maybe it's psychological, IDK. I'm thinking the mould may just have two "hinky" cavities in the middle. The next time I cast, I'll try it the other way again. I'm pretty sure casting twenty pounds of bullets will allow me to eliminate any other variables. Roy Kramer once told me every mould has it's own personality, and you have to learn what each one likes. I think he may be right.

By the way I didn't mean to imply that any of you don't pay attention to the small things. I just get ribbed sometimes for being so "anal" about things. Some measure once and cut twice, and others measure twice and cut once. I measure until know it's right(eight times with one part) and cut once. I don't like doing things twice, or scrapping good metal, and sometimes all you have is one shot.

[mold maker]

+1 on gear and mike.
The secret is a hot mold and fast pace. The mold oven idea is a real improvement. Mine is a #12 food can shortened to just allow the molds under it, with a 1/8" aluminum disc on the element. A window big enough to allow easy clearance of the mold makes it easy to use.
Pouring order, as gear mentioned, helps cut the first few pours, and then it shouldn't matter.
The most common problem with all aluminum molds is they loose heat really quick, and every second the mold is open or empty, it's cooling really fast. If you take time to look at the boolits, with the mold empty, the next pour will be in a, too cool mold.
I have over a doz. 6 cav aluminum molds, and the larger the cal, the easier they are to use. The rifle molds are harder to keep up to casting temp, because less heat is added to the mold with each pour. That means a hotter mold to start with, and an even faster pace is needed,

[jimkim]

Glenn sent me a picture of some of the boolits. I swear the other day they were silver.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h241/sirgknight/DSCI0022-1.jpg

[Hardcast416taylor]

I use multiple cavity molds in number of cavities of from 3 to 6. The makers of the molds are Lyman, NOE, BRP, LEE. I start dropping lead in the cavity closest to the hinge pin and pour pulling the mold toward me at a constant pace. I use an RCBS pot and check the pot temp. with an industrial temp gauge. Once mold has reached appropiate casting temp. I get no wrinkled bullets, usually 2 or 3 molds cast.Robert

[MikeS]

Roy Kramer once told me every mould has it's own personality, and you have to learn what each one likes. I think he may be right.

I agree with that statement 100%. And I'll take it one further, not only does each mould have it's own personality, but they also have good days, and bad days. I have moulds that one day I'll try and cast with it, and I have nothing but trouble, then other days when it just works great no matter what I'm doing!

Yesterday was the first day in the last 2 weeks that I felt well enough to go outside and cast some boolits, and I cast some SAECO #68's and #265's. I started with the 265's as it's a 2 cavity mould (one of my few 2 cavity moulds I have left), so I figured it had probably come up to temp quicker than the 4 cavity #68. Well, normally even after preheating the moulds I still have to open the mould with a mallet for the first few casts, but yesterday I was able to open the mould with just my hand from the very first cast! I cast a total of 100 of the 265's, and had a total of 3 rejects to throw back in the pot. I then went on to the #68, and had similar results with it, I was able to open the sprue plate by hand with no problem at all. At one point, I was distracted by talking to somebody for a few moments, and I didn't put the mould back on the hotplate, so when I went back to it I was sure it would give me trouble for a cast or 2, but even the very first cast after the interruption went fine! I ended up only casting 100 of the 68's (which is like hardly casting with a 4 cavity mould), but even it only had a couple of rejects that I threw back in the pot! I just hope those moulds stay in a good mood, as it was a joy casting yesterday, specially since I hadn't cast anything for a bit.