Alloys ... How Do You Weight the Metals?

[John Boy]

We all talk about alloy ratios that go into our casting pots. We never discuss how the metals are weighed for the alloy.

So, how do you weigh your metals to derive the specific alloy ratio that you want to use?

[Dale53]

Yes, I DO weigh my metals. I have two scales on my bench for this purpose. One is a common kitchen scale for weighing lead. It is plenty accurate enough for lead. However, for my tin I use a much more accurate postal scale (inexpensive) used for weighing letters for stamps. It has a capacity of one or two pounds but is quite accurate for the ounces that I need for the 2% of tin I add to my alloy to improve castibility. I also have an inexpensive, pocket sized, calculator to figure ratios. It sounds complicated but, believe me, it is NOT. Very simple to calculate and weigh the metals for consistent alloys.

Dale53

[ANeat]

I use a bathroom scale for most but I usually mix a 100 lb batch. I do you use a small digital scale to weigh out the tin. 49lbs WW, 49lbs lead, 2lbs tin.

If Im just doing WW metal I will do as Dale mentioned and weigh out 15 or 20lbs for the pot and however many ounces of tin from roll of solder.

Adam

[NVcurmudgeon]

I used up all my mystey metal a few years ago, so weighing alloy is easy. All my metal is wheelweights. All the wheelweights are first smelted into one lb. ingots. I add 2 % tin to help castability. The tin is in the form of lead free solder. By trial and error I find out how long a piece of solder weighs 140 gr. then make two pencil marks on the castng bench that distance apart. The wire solder cuts easily with wire cutters. When castng I add a length of solder with each ingot.

[floodgate]

John Boy:

I use an old Pelouze (or any other similar - I have two or three picked up at flea markets) 25# postal scale - the biggish ones with a 7" - 8" clock face reading to 1/2 oz. and 6" x 6" platform on top - to weigh out the lead (or WW) ingots and chunks of bar solder or bar tin. As you can see, I tend to run modest size mixes, but that works for me, working mostly with my ancient SAECO 20-lb dipper pot.

floodgate

[SharpsShooter]

I use a retired 10 pound capacity postal scale that was given to me by my postmaster when they upgraded their scales last summer. Being able to accurately measure what you put in the pot is a bonus in my mind and creates a repeatable formula for a given alloy mix.

SS

[GP100man]

my ingots weigh 3# each they just fit by the needle in my 10# pot
then add wirelead free solder at 4 oz then cast away adding at 1/2 pot just fill
with ingot & 2 oz of solder & repeat
i dont weigh the solder i cut it in 1/2 then 1/4 & so on till i get it to the size i need
GP

:castmine:

[John Boy]

Up until recently, it was a digital bathroom scale for the Pb and a Weight Watcher's scale in ounces for the Sn. For the WW loads, just weigh the Pb and add 2% Sn.

But I shoot many different alloys in single shot rifles for long range... so I went to the ounces only method...
Melt the 5#'ers in a cast pot and pour into the Lyman ingot's mold. Weigh them to the 10'th of an ounce and stock pile. When I need a specific alloy, I calculate the Sn (bars melted into 1# strips) to the amount of Pb ingots - put em in the Lee pot and cast away. This way, I know that there is an exact match of alloy for batch to batch of bullets using like kind ratios.

Found a great tool to cut the tin strips ... a PVC pipe cutter

What sparked me doing this was ... powder is weighed to the 10th of a grain, so why shouldn't the bullet alloy be measured accurately too

[Leftoverdj]

The max I can melt in my pot is about 110 pounds. I weighed a couple of batches on bathroom scales to establish that. A pound roll of leadfree solder weighs a pound. I looked at the label to establish that.

You really can overthink these things.

[357maximum]

I have all my metals smelted into ingots first....I use mostly water quenched 50/50 ...ww/pure to make almost everything with now..so..It is a simple matter to grab 1 ingot of each everytime I add to the pot.. I smelt in large batches (150 lbs or so) to keep as much uniformity as possible. I smelt over a modified LP fired plumbers cooker and use a pot made from 14" inch diameter X 20" tall steel gas main pipe with a 3/8" bottom and heavy legs welded on. I have been using old cast iron muffin tins for ingots, but have recently switched to 1.5 X 1.5 X 6 inch angle iron ingot molds....they store much mo" betta and do not roll around like the lead muffins do...

[Edward429451]

I use my JB freon scale off of my truck. It only goes up to 176 LBS, but it's enough to weigh a 5 lb bucket of WW's, or smallish batches of ingots.

[Leftoverdj]

When you are working with WW, as most of us are, you don't really know what you are working with anyway. The same is true of used lino, sheet lead, and most of the other stuff that falls into our hands. Precise measurements won't make imprecise metals any more uniform.

[John Boy]

Leftover, the garden variety WW's are ...
Composition: 2.96% Sb, 0.41% Sn, 0.174% As, balance lead ... 96.456%

[David R]

Aftere weighing a bunch, I found out my ingots really do average a pound a piece and the 1/2 lb ones are that too. No scales. 10 ingots of wheel weights, one 1/2 lb ingot of 50/50 solder.

David

[carpetman]

You don't have to weigh wheel weights---the weight is stamped on them. Just go through one at a time and write the weights down and add them up.

[Nardoo]

I have been looking for some small muffin tins so I can make ingots that I can weigh one by one with my Ohaus 10.10's.

[montana_charlie]

I weigh everything to a tenth of an ounce, and only mix up 20 pounds of alloy at a time.

Nardoo,
For ingots that small, you better look for tins made for baking Cheetos...

[jar-wv]

Most of my casting is pistol boolits and I like to add 2% tin. I do this with 50-50 solder from a roll. I rolled out an entire roll of the stuff, measured it, and using a bit of simple math came up with a spreadsheet with the amount of inches of solder to add to however many lbs and oz's of WW. I weigh the WW on a vegetable scale. Yeah I know I probably overthunk the whole thing but I only had to do it once. For adding lino I just do it per batch, weighing each on vegetable scale that weighs to the ounce.

jar

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

The local gunshop is also a UPS/USPS drop. I just go over two or three times a year and freeload...me and a dozen fresh donuts. I can weigh to a .01oz...how's that for anal?

Rich

[jar-wv]

Rich. Actually the way I have my spreadsheet fixed is in hundredths of grains for the solder weight, though I know I cant measure out the inches of solder that precisely. I spent about 11 years in a machine shop so I have the decimal equivalnts of an inch memorized. I just make sure i buy the same brand of solder each time. I think ya can drive yourself nuts if you wish on something that really doesn't need to be all that precise.

jar

[carpetman]

I had a batch of alloy once that was off by .001%,I shudder to think what would have happened if I shot that stuff.

[leftiye]

Real bothersome question-- Is it 2% (or whatever) by weight, or is is whatever percent by volume? I've always done it by weight, but I've always wondered.

Where it really would make a difference is in using solder to raise your tin level. If the solder were made by volume, then calculating by percentage of weight would be way off. You'd have to modify the percentages of weight by the differential densities (one is x percent heavier than the other) of the two metals to get the correct proportions in that case. Sorry, to insert such a pita question here, but as I said, I've always wondered.

[floodgate]

leftiye:

This was discussed on another thread yesterday; from a nubmber of references (Kester Solder, Lyman Cast Bullet HB #3, Bill Ferguson) the standard for mixing up lead alloys is by weight, rather than by volume. But with the roll or bar solders as a source of tin, you can determine inches per ounce by weighing a measured length, and then cut off to suit.

floodgate

[cwheel]

I guess I was shown quite a different method by my grandfather back in the late 1950's. All of our lead was mixed from unknown things, WW, linotype, plumbers, etc. My grandfathers lesson was something later learned again in Jr. High School, in a word, density. Most molds are made with a boolit weight listed when cast in Lyman #2 alloy. When smelting lead ingots to be used for boolits, lead was mixed until the density of the lead cast into a mold matched the listed weight within 1gr. If the weight of a given mold matches the weight listed with Lyman#2, then the density has to be very close to that alloy. Once quenched, the boolit was stood on it's base on a anvil and hit with a ball peen hammer. With a 20oz. hammer and a moderate hit, the boolit should crush to half of it's OAL with out any cracks or fractures. With piles of lead stacked into corners of his garage, there was no way to identify what these chunks were made from, all we had to go by was weight ( =density ) and that the cast boolit wasn't brittle. With piles of old fishing sinkers, lead cable sheathing, diving weights, old wheel weights all melted into larger ingots, they ended up all being usable for boolit casting. I'm not going to sit here and say this is the best way by any means, but I'm sure there are lots of us casters out there that don't have any way to know what that chunk of lead sitting in the garage is short of sending it out to a lab. This always worked for us. In over 50 years of casting boolits, never had a batch that caused leading or any problems not mold related. In a single smelt we tried to work with as large of a mix as the largest pot would hold, about 50 lbs. Making smaller ingots to use for later boolit casting gave us a consistent batch of rounds cast, same weight, same hardness. Loads developed long before I was born are still being used in the same firearms with little to no change in point of impact no sight adjustments. New reloader coming up in the family, he will get the same lesson I got from my grandfather along with the equipment to do so. Right way to do it ?? Who knows for sure, but it has worked for us for 5 generations in this family.
Chris

[btroj]

Talk about digging up ancient history

[cwheel]

He asked------

[btroj]

Oh, I know. It is just interesting to see threads this old brought back to life. Happens every now and then.

I give you credit for looking at older threads for info. More should do that.

[Tom Myers]

You don't have to weigh wheel weights---the weight is stamped on them. Just go through one at a time and write the weights down and add them up.

Don't forget to get an average weight for one clip and then subtract that value times the number of clips from the value of the weights that you have added up.

[cwheel]

Nothing to do with older threads here, I haven't been a member here that long. Grandfathers blacksmith like method was passed to me when I was 7-8 years old. Still having close to a ton of the same old blocks of scrap lead holding down the foundation of my hay barn, it doesn't make any sense to start buying alloy from rotometals for $1.00 per lb. just to have a specific metal content. Not necessary for a good boolit. I'm sure the people over at rotometals would like you to believe that though.
Chris

[Tom Myers]

I had a batch of alloy once that was off by .001%,I shudder to think what would have happened if I shot that stuff.

I''ll betcha that you forgot to subtract the weight of the steel clips from the total ounces stamped on each clip. :groner:

[Green Frog]

I used to have the advantage of working with mostly pure lead sheeting (scraps and drops from a commercial roofer) and pure tin I bought. At the time I was shooting in the single shot game and wanted 25 to 1, so I would weigh and melt about 20 # at a time of that and cast it into ingots. I would make several melts and then mix the ingots in storage so that if there were small variations they should cancel each other out when bullets were cast... never had any problem with that.

Now? For pistol and revolver bullets I take a bunch of very old wheel weights that were rendered to ingots back in the '80s and sweeten the mix with about 2% pure tin and call it good. Of course I still seek out and use pure lead when I cast for black powder. That's my story and I'm sticking to it! ;)

Froggie

[catman81056]

I found a good weighing source at Harbor Freight, they have a postal type scale that has a 70lb capacity for around $37.00(with the 20% off coupon). It's digital to .00 Oz. My alloy of choice is 50/50 coww/pure lead. I'm using pewter as my Sn additive and I smelt in 100lb batches, so I throw in about 36 oz of the pewter.

[prs]

My rendering pot holds 100# of finished alloy plus extra room to stir and prevent slop over. So, I measure in pounds. 95# lead, 2# tin, 3# SB. Its a little more complicated that just that because the SB is already part and parcel of either antimonial lead (5%) or SuperHard (30%); but simple math resolves that problem.

Also, adding two 5# foundry ingots of antimonial lead directly to the casting pot and then 3.6 oz of tin gets 93-2-5 for a little harder product that still casts easily.

Old posts should never die, nor fade away.

prs

[Wolfer]

I guess I'm a real slacker. I smelt everything into muffin tins. I call these 2-1/2 lb. no idea what they weigh and their most likely all different. I just mix WW muffins with pure muffins then add solder until I start getting good edges. Some of the lead is unknown. I whap it with a ball peen hammer alongside an ingot of WW and one of pure. This gives me an idea of its hardness. Most of what I shoot is thru a 45 colt or 44 spl and their extremely forgiving of the alloy.

After they've all been thru my boolit trap a couple times their mixed up pretty good.
Sometimes I'll check an ingot with my lee hardness tester but mostly it's the hammer.
Woody

[imashooter2]

Switch your digital scales over to metric and the percentage calculations get a lot easier...

[Echo]

I have a 70-lb scale I bought @ Harbor Freight that reads to tenths of an ounce - I use it to weigh my base metal, whether WW or range. I have a 5-lb postal scale that I measure my Sn on - I've already measured most of my solder ingots, and marked them with both gross weight and Sn weight, so it's easy to select 6.4 Oz Sn to go with 35 lbs range lead and 5 lbs Monotype...

[Fernando]

I have a bunch of dif base alloy's
Lead,WW,Lino,70/30ww/lino,range,shot,stick-ons,tin
I use a small kitchen scale and set it for grams.
I find it a lot easier to use the metric system to figure %'s

[Lead Fred]

I make ingots, and melt them together. So I guess per pound.

[shredder]

I have a little kitchen scale that I dedicate to use for alloys. Once I have everything in muffin ingots it's pretty easy. I keep my linotype in the same ingots so I have WW, pure, and lino in the same ingot form.
I cut up a 1 lb spool of tin solder into 1 oz pieces. It's easy, just uspool the whole thing and double it up until you have 16 equal peices, then snip it up. Fill the 10 lb pot,(160 oz) then add 3 oz of tin to get roughly 2%.

I have a few different recipies for alloy but the main one I use right now is WW+2% tin. For hunting I will cast up some 50/50 ww/pure.

I am ready to get another bottom pour pot just to dedicate to pure, as I cast sinkers for my store and am looking at black powder moulds.