So which powder now

[charger 1]

Ok so I was having lots of luck with compressed loads of H335 behind cast. Noticing it liked compression,and to be held back till hot which the typical throat lead angle did nicely. Now that I've got this projectile that fills the non rifled throat area but the angle from there is only .5 degrees per side, what kind of powder? I notice with the cast shooting I've done when I get into the stick stuff accuracy goes south unless I slowpok em

[Bass Ackward]

Ok so I was having lots of luck with compressed loads of H335 behind cast. Noticing it liked compression,and to be held back till hot which the typical throat lead angle did nicely. Now that I've got this projectile that fills the non rifled throat area but the angle from there is only .5 degrees per side, what kind of powder? I notice with the cast shooting I've done when I get into the stick stuff accuracy goes south unless I slowpok em


Charger,

You have no idea until you try. You should be learning about any changes from loads that you already have developed. Why? Because you can compare apples to apples and see if there is any change. It could turn out that you see no change and H335 is STILL the powder.

For a cast bullet, the idea of a real slight taper on a throat is so that you can seat deeper into the lands to mimic breech seating. The more of the bullet you imprint, the less has to be imprinted under pressure. The better alignment you establish. And the next purpose is to ease the transion for the rest of the bullet to bore diameter where it will be fully supported from pressure. A cast bullet offers so very little resistance or shot start pressure compared to jacketed anyway that I doubt much change will be seen. My guess is that you will be able to go faster in burn rate speed slightly and thus raise velocity potential if the bore condition will allow it. At least it has for me staying reasonable soft.

But you can bet that I would be polishing that throat with JB Bore paste on a really tight fitting patch and then moving to some good high pressure jacketed work first. I normally keep a supply of those cheap Remington or Winchester 400 grainers that are REALLY full length GCs over pure lead. You get nice throat smoothing obturation from those babbies with stuff like full charges of 4198.

Two or three thousand of those should get you to top performance. :grin:

What? No Patience? :grin:

[charger 1]

You love given me that couple thousand round thing dont ya...LOL

[Bass Ackward]

You love given me that couple thousand round thing dont ya...LOL

Oh yea. Works on anyone that is zelous. :grin:

Seriously, I just fire lapped my 35 whelen with one of those Tubbs Kits that Midway sells. Now bear in mind that this was a Shilean barrel and that I have over 900 rounds out of this gun now of which almost 200 were jacketed. Most guys would tell you, and I would have bet myself, that the gun was as broken in as it would ever get and that no improvement would have been seen shooting lead.

They would have been wrong and I would have lost.

My mix has just been able to move up another 100 fps from where it was. That is not the only benifit. I used to get inconsistent groups. Say 3/4" from a clean bore for the first 5, next 5 just over 1/4", and then the next 5 opened up to like 1" or slightly more. That crap is gone now. Now it is a steady 1/2" (or better) for at least 20 shots as long as you don't get excited and over heat it. :grin:

Patience is a virtue that always tests me. :grin:

New T-Shirt: Jacketed only make your life better!

[Mr Peabody]

What's slowpoke in fps?

[charger 1]

What's slowpoke in fps?


In my world. I empasize my world. Cause I seem to be the odd duck on cast velocities,pressures,etc....I wont go under 2300 with a 380 grainer. That would be slowpok

[leftiye]

Charger Is that your 458 Win, or your 460?

[charger 1]

Charger Is that your 458 Win, or your 460?


450 alaskan

[Larry Gibson]

Ok so I was having lots of luck with compressed loads of H335 behind cast. Noticing it liked compression,and to be held back till hot which the typical throat lead angle did nicely. Now that I've got this projectile that fills the non rifled throat area but the angle from there is only .5 degrees per side, what kind of powder? I notice with the cast shooting I've done when I get into the stick stuff accuracy goes south unless I slowpok em

I push Lee C457-500-F's to 2050 fps in my 450-400-70 (45-70) Siamese Mauser with 4895 and they have all the accuracy I can hold'em to. Not sure if that is "slowpok'em" but it don't feel like it on this end! That is with a slightly compressed charge BTW. RL7 also works quite well with WQ's 458483s up through 2200 fps and is a casefull also. If you really want to try another ball type powder try AA2230, it is pretty much the same density as H335 but burns just a tudge faster. H322 might be another to look at. The target is with commercial PB bullets over 4895 also, only in the high 1500 hundreds but they don't shoot bad.

Larry Gibson

[charger 1]

I guess I'll eventually have to give this RL7 stuff a go. Just that I've been having such good luck with slightly compressed ball, and hodgdon/imr is about all you can put your hands on around here...I guess if some one had one of these fancy programs I could ask em what kind (s) of powders and weights would fill a 450 ak to the shoulder to make 2300+ with a 380 grainer? Huh huh could I huh??

[Bass Ackward]

There are some powder options out there, but you gotta be smokin something real good to get 2300 fps without going over pressure.

Looks like dynamite might be a possible option. But it can get a little unstable if you try compressing it. :grin:

Yep, you try to compress a case full of H335 with this one and you will be running one of Joeb's detonation tests. :grin.

The first powders that you can shoot a case full (77.5 gr) of is 4320 / RL15 and is real close to 2300 fps. but is still slightly over pressure. Burn rate is about 93% which is a real good range for cast. Of coarse, I guessed on a few factors here.

If you had a 46" barrel installed with that, your options would be a little wider here. :grin: Or if you throated that thing out about 4" or so, you might make it.

But you can do what my neighbor does to cut pressure and help the bullet over come inertia sooner, he starts on top the hill and breaks into a dead run so the bullet is already moving when he pulls the trigger. :grin:

This guy's name is Pat. Nope, no relation .... I think.

[charger 1]

There are some powder options out there, but you gotta be smokin something real good to get 2300 fps without going over pressure.

Looks like dynamite might be a possible option. But it can get a little unstable if you try compressing it. :grin:

Yep, you try to compress a case full of H335 with this one and you will be running one of Joeb's detonation tests. :grin.

The first powders that you can shoot a case full (77.5 gr) of is 4320 / RL15 and is real close to 2300 fps. but is still slightly over pressure. Burn rate is about 93% which is a real good range for cast. Of coarse, I guessed on a few factors here.

If you had a 46" barrel installed with that, your options would be a little wider here. :grin: Or if you throated that thing out about 4" or so, you might make it.

But you can do what my neighbor does to cut pressure and help the bullet over come inertia sooner, he starts on top the hill and breaks into a dead run so the bullet is already moving when he pulls the trigger. :grin:

This guy's name is Pat. Nope, no relation .... I think.

She's doin 2400 with 350 hornady coppers now and no pressure signs. Before I get my mold I've been running 360 grain cast on 65 grs of 335 and a 7cc scoop of PSB to 2330,no pressure signs.I dont see that little 22" pipe burning 77 grains of anything ecspecially with moly'd cast. heck when I tried a snoot full of 3031 and the copper it was tapped at 2250 and they wouldnt let me fire it at the range on a dry day case of grass fires...But the whole running thing, now there you have something. Used to hunt with a fella that would run toward the passing whitetail in dense bush whilst jumping logs whilst pumping and firing the rem 06. Dont laugh it was an art form in of itself...And occasionally he even hit a deer if you can imagine. Ya it was great. Although he'd never played ball a day in his life he'd run the whole time yelling mine mine, got it ,mine..

[charger 1]

PS ,I've been putting some thought to this whole 4895 thing to

[Bass Ackward]

She's doin 2400 with 350 hornady coppers now and no pressure signs.

Well, I told you I was doing some guessing. :grin:

I suppose .... that you ....do .... realize, that is supposed to have a top end pressure limit of something CLOSE TO 46,000 psi? :grin:

[Ricochet]

Seeing no pressure signs doesn't mean you're not over safe pressure in a lever action rifle. The usual signs of excessive pressure based on deformation of the brass cartridge case head and primer cup don't show up till you're in a range over something like 65,000 PSI, which is more than most levers are happy with.