Good Rifle/Caliber to cast for ?

[Sapper771]

I am looking for a good rifle to cast boolits for, in an easy caliber to cast and load. Looking for a combo that has the least hassle.....like I said, easy. I collect old service rifles, so I may have one that is suitable, just looking for recommendations and info. This will probably end up as a plinker, but may be used as a bush/hunting gun in the future.

I currently have: Swedish Mauser M96 in 6.5x55 , Gewehr 88 in 8mm, Finnish M39 in 7.62x54, Finnish M91 in 7.62x54, 1943 German Mauser in 8mm, 1917 Enfield in 30-06, and Lee Enfield No1 MkIII in 303 brit. I dont mind buying a rifle, as long as it isnt too expensive. I did find an older (1970's) Winchester 94 in 30-30 for $200. There is also a Marlin/Glenfield lever action 30-30 rifle that I would possibly get for around the same price, but I have heard that they have micro groove rifling, which isnt good for cast boolits. Several have recommended the 30-30 as a beginner rifle for casting, but others have said that the 30-30 case needs to be trimmed after every firing. Some have recommended a lever gun in 45colt. That would be great , but I havent found one for a decent price. They seem to demand a premium over their 30-30 chambered bretheren.

I have plenty of wheel weight alloy to cast. I have very little linotype. Would wheel weight alloy with a gas check work?

Any help/info/recommendations would be appreciated.

[Moonie]

Any of those should do very well with cast. The 8mm and 30 calibers might be easier than the 6.5. Be sure you slug your bores and choose boolits/sizers slightly larger (.001-.002ish).

Start with light loads, and read all you can on this site, tons of great info here. Ask questions, we do not mind answering, also the search function works rather well for things that are asked often.

[Ben]

Of your firearms you have listed, I'd think that your
1917 Enfield in 30-06, should get you some fairly
quick success with cast bullets.

Pick the correct design and size it properly and load it
with 16 grs. of 2400 and you're off to the races.

This group was fired with a 1917 :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0003-28.jpg

[atr]

I had a 1917 30-06 and it was a very good cast shooter....I would start with that one

[1Shirt]

Think Ben is right. However all of the others will shoot cast IF you find the right combination of size, lube, charge etc. Part of the fun is getting there, but it can be frustrating with some of the others.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[Wayne Smith]

To specifically answer your question the 30-30 is probably the easiest and most satisfying simply because you can do everything the cartridge was designed to do with cast. You don't look at your cast loads as less than the equivelant condom loads, they are running at the same speed.

No, you don't have to trim cast loads in the 30-30 any more often than condom loads. Again, the big advantage is that they are functionally the same. Makes it easier to understand. You can even use the same powders. You need a flat nosed boolit for a lever action, you probably want a gas check boolit to wring the most out of it. Yes, ww's will work, and even better is a 50/50 mix of ww's and lead. This is much better if you want to shoot anything other than paper. Terminal ballistics are much better with the softer mix.

If you use a bigger cartridge case you will be essentially making that cartridge into a 30-30 when you use it with cast boolits. You do have the potential to do more, but that is not an introduction to casting, the 30-30 is.

Bascally you are looking at relatively low pressure rounds to easily shoot cast. I love my 32-20's with cast, another low pressure round. The higher pressure cartridges are possible but more difficult.

[Char-Gar]

My first choice would be the 30-06 and my second the 8mm. Whoever told you that Microgroove barrels don't do well with cast bullets was misinformed.

[Sapper771]

Thank you for the imput.

I have 30-06 ammo that I can easily turn into brass. I also have a set of RCBS 30-06 dies that I got in an estate sale. Do I need to look into getting any specialized die for cast boolits? I had to get creative with my 9mm cast bullets due to the case swaging the boolit down. Is this going to be an issue with the rifle brass too?

I will more than likely get a Lee two cavity mold for the purpose. Can anyone recommend a 30 cal Lee Gas check mold ?

[Sapper771]

I have never messed with gas checks. Where is a good place to purchase them?

I will also need the proper lube sizer die and top punch for my Lube a matic 2.

[94Doug]

Don't overlook a nice 35 caliber if you go out to purchase something different. A 30-06 is never a bad choice however.

Doug

[Char-Gar]

I can't help you with Lee molds as I don't use them. There are plenty of folks who do and they can make suggestions.

[Shooter6br]

I love 45-70 for cast

[Centaur 1]

To specifically answer your question the 30-30 is probably the easiest and most satisfying simply because you can do everything the cartridge was designed to do with cast. You don't look at your cast loads as less than the equivelant condom loads, they are running at the same speed.

No, you don't have to trim cast loads in the 30-30 any more often than condom loads. Again, the big advantage is that they are functionally the same. Makes it easier to understand. You can even use the same powders. You need a flat nosed boolit for a lever action, you probably want a gas check boolit to wring the most out of it. Yes, ww's will work, and even better is a 50/50 mix of ww's and lead. This is much better if you want to shoot anything other than paper. Terminal ballistics are much better with the softer mix.

If you use a bigger cartridge case you will be essentially making that cartridge into a 30-30 when you use it with cast boolits. You do have the potential to do more, but that is not an introduction to casting, the 30-30 is.

Bascally you are looking at relatively low pressure rounds to easily shoot cast. I love my 32-20's with cast, another low pressure round. The higher pressure cartridges are possible but more difficult.

I have to agree with the 30-30, it's a great caliber for cast boolits. As far as getting the Winchester or the Marlin, that would be your choice. I prefer the Marlin myself and I shoot cast in mine without any problems. I have several Lee 2 cavity molds that I use for handgun calibers, but I didn't have too much luck with their .30 cal 150 grain fn mold. I now have the Ranch Dog 165 grain mold that was designed to be used in the 30-30 and it works great. It will cost you $60 versus a $20 Lee, but it works and being a 6 cavity mold you can really crank out some boolits.

[adrians]

lyman 311291 or 31141 in most any 30cal and as stated above 16grns of 2400 (the load) will do you just fine to start with...:evil::coffee::twisted:

[Mk42gunner]

Thank you for the imput.

I have 30-06 ammo that I can easily turn into brass. I also have a set of RCBS 30-06 dies that I got in an estate sale. Do I need to look into getting any specialized die for cast boolits? I had to get creative with my 9mm cast bullets due to the case swaging the boolit down. Is this going to be an issue with the rifle brass too?

I will more than likely get a Lee two cavity mold for the purpose. Can anyone recommend a 30 cal Lee Gas check mold ?

I am using the Lee 312-185 mold that they sell for the .303 British. It casts large enough that I can use it in most of my .30-.31 caliber rifles.


I have never messed with gas checks. Where is a good place to purchase them?

I will also need the proper lube sizer die and top punch for my Lube a matic 2.

I am using that last of a can of Hornady gas checks I bought at a gun show, but they can be bought from most of the reloading suppliers, I like MidSouth. The mainstream suppliers fo gaschecks are Hornady and Lyman. I have read that Hornady makes them for Lyman now, the old style Lymans were designed for a slip fit while the Hornadys are crimped on when you run them through the lubrisizer, as are the new Lymans. You can also buy Gator checks from one of the members here.

Slug your rifle before you buy a sizing die, my 1917 likes .311" diameter boolits. For a top punch for a Lee you have to get creative, I use a homemade flat punch and a light touch, but you can also order one for a similar profile and custom fit it with hot glue, epoxy, etc. Use a release agent on the boolit if you do this.

Good Luck,

Robert

[Will]

lee 309-170F is almost the same as lyman 311041 and will work well in 06 or 30-30.

[JIMinPHX]

Any .30 cal is a good choice for cast. The .303 or 7.62 x 54 is going to have a more limited selection of molds to choose from, but you can get a mold for them if you want to. The .30-30 is a classic for cast. .30-06 is not a bad choice either, you will just end up burning a little more powder in the 06 to get the same FPS than you would in a .30-30. Whoever told you that Microgroove is no good for cast, never shot my gun. It shoots cast better than factory ammo & that's with the same boolit weight & speed.

Pistol caliber rifles like .45LC, .44Mag & .357/.38 are pretty easy to cast for as long as you choose a reasonable boolit design. While the pistol boolits tend to be a little bit easier to cast than the rifle boolits, .30 cal is not bad. When you start getting below 7mm, then you start to really see some additional difficulties when trying to get good fill out.

A 150ish grain .30 cal mold should give you a good general purpose boolit for a wide variety of applications. Just remember to get a flat point design if you plan to load for a gun with a tube mag, like a .30-30 lever action.

[JIMinPHX]

To answer your later questions -
Midway, Midsouth & Natchez are the first three places that come to my mind when I want to buy a mold, sizing die or gas checks.

My favorite all around .30 cal mold from Lee is the C309-150-F. You can use it in a lever gun or just about any other type of rifle with a standard US size .30 cal bore. Most other people prefer the 170-grain version though. If you are only going to be shooting cast in the 06 & not getting a .30-30 down the road, then the round nose C309-180-R will probably give you slightly better results as the ranges get longer. At $20 a pop, it's probably not the end of the world if you need to get a second Lee mold down the road. You can almost always sell a used mold in good condition for $15, so you are not really risking very much.

You can see the Lee rifle molds here - http://leeprecision.com/xcart/Bullet-Mold-Double-Cavity-c-7289/

The best die to use for cast is probably the Lyman M die. It gives you the best combination of neck expansion & flair when properly used. Most of the time you can get away with just using the Lee universal expander die to put a little flair on the mouth of the case, so that you don't shave lead when you load the boolit. If you want groups like Ben's, then I'd recommend going the extra mile & getting a genuine Lyman M die. They do make a bit of a difference when you are really trying to get things dialed in.

[leadman]

As Jim said, get the Lyman M die. also a Lee collet die if they make it in the cartridge you select.

Blammer on this site sells gas checks very reasonable.

If you run across a Krag 30-40 this is also a great cast shooter if the bore is good.

I prefer boolits in a 30 to 31cal. of 170 to 200grs.

[Ben]

Sapper771:

If you do decide to shoot your 1917 with cast ( or for that matter any of your other rifles ), just remember that the bore must be totally free of copper to get optimum results with your cast bullets.

Ben

[MikeS]

Well, considering how many .30 caliber rifles you already have, I would say to start with one of them. If you want to buy a 30-30, just because you want one, go for it. Don't buy one because you think it would be easier to load for, etc. (but that IS a good excuse to get one!) If you're thinking of going with a 30-30, I would try and find a Lyman 31141 (aka 311041) as it is THE standard 30-30 boolit, AND it can be used in any of your other .30 caliber rifles as well, so with one mould you can satisfy several of your guns. Of course once the casting bug bites, you won't be happy with just one boolit mould, but that one is a good place to get started. Or if you want to start with a lighter boolit, try the 311008, it too will work in most of your 30 caliber rifles.

I see you live in East TN, what part? I used to live in Newport for a few years, and loved it up there! If I still lived up there, I would be shooting MUCH more than I do now, as I used to shoot in my backyard almost every day. At that time, I wasn't reloading, so I had a gravel & brass driveway! :)

[63 Shiloh]

Jeez, this is a no brainer mate!

You ain't got anything starting with .4, so, 45-70 it is!

Awesome calibre, massive selection of molds, heaps of good data and kill anything in Nth America.

Load mild or wild, choice is yours.

I have seen good second hand Marlin XLR's going for less than $400.00 on US sites!!

Go for it mate, you will not regret it.

Mike

[waksupi]

The larger the bore diameter, the easier they are to get shooting well. I prefer .35 calibers.

[MBTcustom]

I second for .35, its kind of in between the 45/70 and the 308 cals. However, in the spirit of the original post, I would say that you would probably cherish a highwall action of some sort in 45/70, and you would find it a dream to cast for. Like has been previously stated, the selection of powders, boolits, and possible recipes, make the 45/70 a casters dream-come-true. The only catch is, that the manufacturers know that its a lot of gun in one package and they cost a lot. That's the only reason I don't have one.

[dverna]

I'm with Doug on this.

Yes, all of your current rifles will work; but a Marlin 336 in .35 Remington makes a nice platform and you can achieve the full potential of the cartridge with cast bullets without any heroics. A used one will not bankrupt you.

For plinking, you can even use .38 cal pistol bullets and have a barrel of fun.

For more money the .38/55 is another good cast option but you cannot use pistol bullets in it.

Larger diameter bullets are more forgiving in most cases. If you are going to hunt, it is easier to get more ME with the bigger bullets as velocity becomes the limiting factor with cast.

Don

[303Guy]

... and Lee Enfield No1 MkIII in 303 brit.In my totally unbiased opinion, this is the one ... [smilie=1:

The Lee Enfield does have one or two advantages over other rifles in that many of them have bores modified by the use of cordile ammunition that makes them quite suitable for cast. On the downside, they were cleaned with pullthroughs laced with oil and dust which tended to wear the muzzle. If you're prepaired to chop off the worn muzzle bit then you'll be sweet - if it is worn. Another downside is the tendancy for those older bores to be rust damaged. An upside is that should you choose to paper patch, there are any number of 30 cal molds to choose from (straight 30 cal patched up to throat size). Heavier seems to be better.

On the other hand you have a good excuse to purchase another rifle and you have those 30-30's on your radar! I have a hankering for a single shot 30-30 just for cast.

[Sapper771]

Thanks for all of the info guys.

The word I got on the micro groove rifling was that in order to successfully cast for it, the bullets needed to be extra hard. They said that standard rifling was easier to deal with.

I was looking at getting a Winchester 94 30-30 lever gun, but I was offered a near new Springfield M1A SOCOM at a great price, so now I am broke. I will probably start off with the 1917 Enfield (30-06). Although, the 35 remington and 45-70 does sound tempting. I will have to wait til money comes available before I can get another toy.

That is a great group ben. How do you like the gas check forming tool? I would probably be more interested in getting the gas check tool over buying the gas checks. Its cool that you can use aluminum cans as gas check material.

[geargnasher]

I am looking for a good rifle to cast boolits for, in an easy caliber to cast and load. Looking for a combo that has the least hassle.....like I said, easy. I collect old service rifles, so I may have one that is suitable, just looking for recommendations and info. This will probably end up as a plinker, but may be used as a bush/hunting gun in the future.

I dont mind buying a rifle, as long as it isnt too expensive. I did find an older (1970's) Winchester 94 in 30-30 for $200. There is also a Marlin/Glenfield lever action 30-30 rifle that I would possibly get for around the same price, but I have heard that they have micro groove rifling, which isnt good for cast boolits. See Chargar's post. Whoever said that is very, very ignorant. Several have recommended the 30-30 as a beginner rifle for casting, but others have said that the 30-30 case needs to be trimmed after every firing. Again, more ignorance.Some have recommended a lever gun in 45colt. That would be great , but I havent found one for a decent price. They seem to demand a premium over their 30-30 chambered bretheren.

I have plenty of wheel weight alloy to cast. I have very little linotype. Would wheel weight alloy with a gas check work? Yes. Absolutely. If you want to push it fast, water quench from a hot mould to make the alloy as hard as linotype..

Any help/info/recommendations would be appreciated.


Any of those should do very well with cast. The 8mm and 30 calibers might be easier than the 6.5. Be sure you slug your bores and choose boolits/sizers slightly larger (.001-.002ish).

Start with light loads, and read all you can on this site, tons of great info here. Ask questions, we do not mind answering, also the search function works rather well for things that are asked often. +1 Moonie.


To specifically answer your question the 30-30 is probably the easiest and most satisfying simply because you can do everything the cartridge was designed to do with cast. You don't look at your cast loads as less than the equivelant condom loads, they are running at the same speed. Perfectly said, Wayne. The .30-30 is "easy" for the same reason the .45/70 is: At it's maximum potential it's still well within the practical limits of cast boolits.

No, you don't have to trim cast loads in the 30-30 any more often than condom loads. Again, the big advantage is that they are functionally the same. Makes it easier to understand. You can even use the same powders. You need a flat nosed boolit for a lever action, you probably want a gas check boolit to wring the most out of it. Yes, ww's will work, and even better is a 50/50 mix of ww's and lead. This is much better if you want to shoot anything other than paper. Terminal ballistics are much better with the softer mix.

If you use a bigger cartridge case you will be essentially making that cartridge into a 30-30 when you use it with cast boolits. You do have the potential to do more, but that is not an introduction to casting, the 30-30 is. A lot of truth in that statement, too. It takes a lot of learnin' to get a .30-'06 over 2200 fps with any accuracy.

Basically you are looking at relatively low pressure rounds to easily shoot cast. I love my 32-20's with cast, another low pressure round. The higher pressure cartridges are possible but more difficult.


As Jim said, get the Lyman M die. also a Lee collet die if they make it in the cartridge you select. The Lee Collet die makes the M die obsolete, and doesn't work the brass nearly as much. Still need a Universal Expander, though. If you want to get an M die for .30 caliber cast, get the .31 die, NOT the .30.

Blammer on this site sells gas checks very reasonable.

If you run across a Krag 30-40 this is also a great cast shooter if the bore is good.

I prefer boolits in a 30 to 31cal. of 170 to 200grs.


Thanks for all of the info guys.

The word I got on the micro groove rifling was that in order to successfully cast for it, the bullets needed to be extra hard. They said that standard rifling was easier to deal with. More BS. Whoever said that doesn't have a clue what they're talking about.

I was looking at getting a Winchester 94 30-30 lever gun, but I was offered a near new Springfield M1A SOCOM at a great price, so now I am broke. I will probably start off with the 1917 Enfield (30-06). Good choice. Although, the 35 remington and 45-70 does sound tempting. I will have to wait til money comes available before I can get another toy. Don't let that stop you from getting a Lee two-cavity mould, a pound of Unique or Red Dot, and starting out with some un-checked powder puff loads in the Enfield. You can pan-lube if you don't have a lube/sizer and dies. You can use Lee push-though boolit sizer dies, cheap and effective, also in some ways better on principle than base-first sizers.

That is a great group ben. How do you like the gas check forming tool? I would probably be more interested in getting the gas check tool over buying the gas checks. Its cool that you can use aluminum cans as gas check material.

Gear

[Sapper771]

Ok......slugged the barrel. My slug has five grooves. What is the easiest way to go about measuring this slug? I have looked on a few other websites and have come up with all sorts of voodoo on the subject.

Using a micrometer, measuring from the trailing edge of one groove to the leading edge of another groove, I am coming up with 0.311". Calipers are showing the same measurement.

Also, the bore on my 1917 Enfield is a little pitted, will that be a problem?

[geargnasher]

The 1917 Enfield? I didn't know that.

For five groove Smith and Wesson revolvers, the grooves are usually wide enough to measure with a micrometer by carefully rotating the boolit between the anvils and checking for the first hint of drag, since the edge of one groove will be near the longest chord length (major diameter) from the one on the opposite side, so it is possible to get close just by measuring the edges. My NEF .45 Colt and Shiloh Sharps both have grooves that are not cut on a circle, but are larger on the edges than in the middle, so the largest "groove" dimension is across the corners. I don't know how your gun's rifling is cut, but most rifles have pretty wide grooves, so just "fake" it with a good mic, carefully checking for drag at the edges of the slug.

Gear

PS, to answer directly one of your earlier questions that I missed, it is often necessary to use different tools for cast vs. jacketed when loading rifle, just as with pistol. Most of the time you will be using a lead alloy boolit that is slightly larger than jacketed, and the cases must be expanded accordingly, hence the M die, collet sizing die, or neck-bushing die recommendations. For example, most .30-caliber rifles will like at least a .309" boolit, and an expander that is only .307" like comes with most J-word die sets might not open up the brass enough to prevent swaging of, say, straight air-cooled clip-on wheel-weight metal (~13 bhn), and no matter what expander you use, you will need to bell the case to prevent lead shaving during seating. This is an extra step compared to jacketed, the Lyman M die expands the case in two steps and can be set to bell as well, and any of the neck-sizing setups will require a separate bellmouthing step before seating the boolit.

Most factory seat/crimp dies work fine with oversized cast boolits unless you bellmouth way too much, so there should be no problem there.

[63 Shiloh]

Ok......slugged the barrel. My slug has five grooves. What is the easiest way to go about measuring this slug? I have looked on a few other websites and have come up with all sorts of voodoo on the subject.

Using a micrometer, measuring from the trailing edge of one groove to the leading edge of another groove, I am coming up with 0.311". Calipers are showing the same measurement.

Also, the bore on my 1917 Enfield is a little pitted, will that be a problem?

Shoot 45 Nut a PM mate, he has V Blocks for this very purpose, makes measuring odd numbered groove barrels easy and accurate.

Mike

[uscra112]

The Marlin .30-30 will shoot cast just fine. The idea that Microgroove won't shoot cast is a myth. But you'll need a different mold for the .30-30 than for the .30-06 - the throats are completely different. I have shot cast in a two-groove Springfield '06, but now I stay with smaller cases - .35 Remington, .357 Mag and Max, and .25-21 Stevens. If I had to start out again, knowing what I know now, I'd choose my .35 Remington Microgroove Marlin all over again, but a Marlin .30-30 would be a close second. The 336 Marlin is just probably the best cheap rifle ever made - hands down the winner over the Winchester in every department except cult status. ** Boy, I'll catch flak for that one! ;-) **

[Sapper771]

I am at a stand still at this point. The bore on my 1917 is a bit rough and lightly pitted, so I dont know how well that will work with cast boolits. The groove diameter is showing to be 0.311", which mea s that I will probably have to go with a 0.313" boolit to ensure a good fit. So I am thinking a mold for a 303 british will be needed, what say you?

All my lee pistol molds cast over size boolits with ACWW. My Lee 200gr 0.452" SWC mold casts out at 0.454". My Lee 120gr TC mold casts out at 0.359". Do the Lee rifle molds also cast larger boolits than stated?

I was hoping to use the 1917 because I already have brass, primers, powder, and dies for 30-06. Due to the bore condition, I am thinking that I may be better off looking for another rifle to cast for.