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View Full Version : 270 Win or 270 WSM ??



frkelly74
07-13-2011, 09:07 AM
Theoretically speaking, would a 270 WSM be superior to the 270 Win for cast boolit shooting? The 270 being long has a lot of extra space in it like the 30/06 and for that I have resorted to filler to fix the inconsistent ignition and vertical stringing problem. So I am wondering if the 270 WSM might be a better choice due to the shorter powder column.


I guess the same considerations could be drawn for the 30/06 versus the 308 Win . What do we think?

Echo
07-13-2011, 09:27 AM
My guess would be that case volume is the deciding factor. Does the SM have a smaller boiler room? Maybe not...

Ben
07-13-2011, 09:33 AM
I might get flamed for this......BUT....It is my opinion the " Short Magnums " were invented to sell firearms.

I think out in the field the difference between the old 270 Win. vs. the new WSM would be very small.

Many say, " But you get the rifle in a small length action."

What was wrong with the full length action for field use ? ? What is the actual length and weight difference of the firearm in the 2 calibers ? Seems to be a small point of contention , from my view point.

The only advantage that I can see for the WSM is a shorter powder column, which bench rest shooters have found to offer a slight accuracy advantage. However, the WSM cartridges aren't built in bench rest rifles, they are offered in field grade hunting rifles.

Ben

felix
07-13-2011, 10:29 AM
Agree. The 284 and 280 have exactly the same boiler room, but with a different shape. It's all about sales, mostly. The acceleration curve is altered, and that must be taken into account with what components are available for equivalent velocity and accuracy. ... felix

44man
07-13-2011, 10:51 AM
I don't have figures but it seems to me the WSM is fatter and might actually have more internal capacity then normal cases.

chboats
07-13-2011, 10:59 AM
I would go with the 270 and not the WSM for a couple of reasons. Brass is easier to find and the longer neck is more cast friendly. Basically I am cheap and lazy.

Carl

jameslovesjammie
07-13-2011, 11:13 AM
I think out in the field the difference between the old 270 Win. vs. the new WSM would be very small.

With a 130 grain Sierra Gameking, we are getting 3100 fps with the O'Connor load in the .270 Winchester and 3400 with the WSM (Chronographed with a CED M2). 300 fps difference. That would be about the same as the difference between a '06 and a 300 Win Mag.

The WSM load is the max load in Sierra's 5th with Reloader 19.

For Cast booliting, I would look hard at the 6.8 SPC if looking for a .277 cal. The biggest drawback to it is that you almost have to have an AR platform if you want the proper chambering (SPEC II chamber) and twist rate.

felix
07-13-2011, 11:22 AM
My preference for a 270 would be around the 6.8 case size with a 14 twist, using 90-115 grainer boolits at 2400 fps max. ... felix

ktw
07-13-2011, 12:08 PM
My preference for a 270 would be around the 6.8 case size with a 14 twist, using 90-115 grainer boolits at 2400 fps max. ... felix

There are easier calibers to work with as far as cast bullets due to the general lack of standard, mid capacity cartridges, but if I was dead set on optimizing for cast in the 277 caliber I'd have a 270/30-30 wildcat made up, similar to the Bullberry line of cartridges or the 7x30 Waters

-ktw

frkelly74
07-13-2011, 12:42 PM
Interesting comments. I never thought of a 270/30-30. The reason I asked was there is a 270WSM about to sell pretty cheap ( last I looked ) M70 Winchester. Just wondering about the possibilities. They are fat cartridge , scarce brass type rifles though.

jameslovesjammie
07-13-2011, 04:15 PM
Interesting comments. I never thought of a 270/30-30. The reason I asked was there is a 270WSM about to sell pretty cheap ( last I looked ) M70 Winchester. Just wondering about the possibilities. They are fat cartridge , scarce brass type rifles though.

Brass isn't scarce for the WSM...just expensive.


There are easier calibers to work with as far as cast bullets due to the general lack of standard, mid capacity cartridges, but if I was dead set on optimizing for cast in the 277 caliber I'd have a 270/30-30 wildcat made up, similar to the Bullberry line of cartridges or the 7x30 Waters

-ktw

KTW,

Think of it this way:

The parent case for the 6.8 is the .30 Remington. The .30 Remington is just a rimless .30-30. If you had an Encore barrel chambered for 6.8 SPC but with a .30-30 extractor installed...you basically have a shortened 270/.30-30. You could even use 6.8 reloading dies and a .30-30 shell holder, ie no expensive custom dies.

The only drawback to this is that to get proper twist for the caliber (1/12-1/14) you need to have a custom barrel from someone like Match Grade Machines. The T/C factory barrels are SPEC I, not SPEC II and have the 1/10 twist.

James

shdwlkr
07-13-2011, 05:19 PM
being cheap and also maybe going into a remote store I have to believe I can find 270 winchester ammo, brass easier than I can find 270 sm. If I had to I could use 30-06 brass to make 270 useable brass. What are you going to use to make your 270 sm brass from?
Besides that I like the 270 winchester better

smoked turkey
07-13-2011, 05:44 PM
I admit I was influenced by Jack O'Connor as a younger man. I read his books such as The Complete Book of Rifles and Shotguns, Complete Book of Hunting, along with his many articles in Outdoor Life. I had to have a .270 and a 7x57 Mauser. I still have my old 7x57 and I miss my .270 that went for something or other I had to have. I agree with some earlier posts that the newer line of "short magnums" do have an edge over some of the old cartridges, but real world reality is that a 270 will do anything the .270WSM will do. I say the same thing for the 300 WSM as compared to the 300 magnum. It boils down to the man behing the gun that makes the difference. This is slightly off subject, but the 30-06 will do 95% of it. That is just my opinion.

Bob Krack
07-13-2011, 06:18 PM
being cheap and also maybe going into a remote store I have to believe I can find 270 winchester ammo, brass easier than I can find 270 sm. If I had to I could use 30-06 brass to make 270 useable brass. What are you going to use to make your 270 sm brass from?
Besides that I like the 270 winchester better

Yup,

You can always buy a firearm that shoots more expensive ammo. I LOVE the .270, but I would not have a .270 WSM up my a$$ even if I had room for a .50BMG.

Bob

JIMinPHX
07-13-2011, 09:45 PM
A buddy of mine is a real big fan of the .270. He likes it better than the 06. He was really excited when the .270WSSM hit the market because it would mean that a whole bunch of regular .270s would be coming on the used market at a reasonable price. I think that he had the right idea.

Unless you have a tendency to short shuck the action when trying to cycle a full length cartridge, then I don't see any real advantage in getting a shorty to shoot cast.

warf73
07-14-2011, 02:20 AM
The 270win vs. 270 wsm if you were a lope hunter or goat shooter then the wsm would be the cart to get, but now we are talking J bullets not cast. The wsm does have more fps at 300fps at 300 yards is alot less drop driffence.
But if your only talking cast loads at normal cast fps then get the winney as the brass is cheaper and more rifles to choose from.

Now if you want a really nice all around castablity cart that is only .2mm larger get ya a 7X57. That cart has loads of boolits molds around new and used and it seems to shoot cast REALY well from all the posts I've read on here.

jandbn
07-16-2011, 02:21 PM
A quick Google search for case capacity (http://www.realguns.com/archives/079.htm) shows the WSM with more boiler room.

Bret4207
07-17-2011, 06:54 AM
In 15 years which will you be more likely to get brass for? The 270. Same with the 8mm Rem Mag, 9mm Federal, 401 Herters Power Mag, the Lazzeroni line, a whole mess of 41 and 9mm cases, etc.

jameslovesjammie
07-17-2011, 02:56 PM
There seems to be alot of bashing of most .277 cal rifles, but this is ridiculous. Look at the over saturation and overlapping calibers in 7mm and .30 cals. The Sierra 5th lists data for 12 different 7mm cartridges and 20 .308 cal cartridges. This isn't including the .311 rounds, most of which are also duplicates.

There are 4 .277 cartridges (6.8 SPC, .270 Win, .270 WSM, .270 Weatherby) Surely there is enough room in the cartridge market for another .270. I bought mine back when if you wanted a magnum .270 you had to go Weatherby...and their brass is even more expensive. Why do I want a magnum .270? I love hunting antelope. Our average shot is around 300 yards. Would this be the proper cartridge for shooting Labrador sized deer in wooded Alabama at 100 yards? Not at all. That isn't what it was designed for, either. It does excel here out on the prairie where the velocity helps buck the constantly changing wind.

Do I think that the 7mm and .30 cal WSM's and SAUM's are/were relevant? No. They did not fill a void in the market. But the .270 WSM does, and continues to be a big seller on the plains.

Will you still be able to get brass for the .270 WSM in 15 years? Well, it has already been on the market for 9. I am betting it is quite solid.

The comment about not having one if someone stuck it up your ass is also ludicrous. I have no use for a .50 cal, but many people lust over them. I don't put them down. I also have no use for a handgun with more power than a .45 Colt, although there is something mystical to me about the .41 mag. Do I put down the .44 mag guys? No. To each his own. I have no use for AR's, but do I put them down? No. To each his own.

GabbyM
07-17-2011, 10:01 PM
My 270 Win in a noodle barrel Weatherby Vanguard kicks the snot right out of me with full house loads. Only way I’d take on a 270 short mag would be in a 26 inch heavy sporter barrel with a thumbhole stock. Would be a specialized rifle.

Only issue I’ve had with my long action rifles is they only hold five in the magazine and one up the tube. Gun runs empty before a coyote can run 100 yards. I grew up running a bolt action 22 rim fire and never have figured out what the advantage of a short action gun is. My Weatherby 270 will cycle rounds far faster than my old 22 rim-fire. None of my Remington short actions will feed from a magazine well enough to call them magazine fed guns. My Ruger short action will sort of feed a round up although it bumps it’s way in.

All the extra velocity on a 270 bullet will do is make the bullet frag apart at close range. Get a 24 inch barrel Win M70 in 30-06 if you want more power than a 270.

270 Win is IMHO an over bore round already. More powder is the last thing they need. Always the 280 AI which is almost a standard round and allows the use of heavy 7mm bullets.

If you really have to have a short stroke. The new powders out will run a 7mm-08 almost as fast as the old loads in 270 Winchester. Plus if you want to do short range bear or hogs you can load up 175 grain bullets.

Nrut
07-18-2011, 12:06 AM
:holysheep

Wow!


:shock::shock::shock: