Good day with my GRF 20 ga.trade gun

[Maven]

Made some definite progress with the trade gun today by eliminating a few variables, namely one of the RB's I was using and the powder charge. "Backstory": The bore of my trade gun measures .615" and thus I ordered a .600" RB mould (sic) from Jeff Tanner last year. Meanwhile, a friend gave me a .600" Dixie mold too. However, I also couldn't resist bidding on a new Rapine .600" RB, which I won. I quickly learned that the Tanner RB @ .597" and the Dixie @ .600" with patches of a given thickness (more on this below) outshot the Rapine RB @ 610" by a large margin.

Today, I retested the Rapine and Tanner RB's using the same patching and powder charge for each, and confirmed what I suspected: My gun likes the Tanner RB much better than the Rapine, which doesn't group very well at all. Although I didn't test it today, past experience with the Dixie has also been gratifiying. All testing has been @ 25yd. using FFg, both Graf's/Wano and Diamondback (today). Patches were red striped pillow ticking, which mic's ~.001" less than the blue striped version by the same manufacturer and is .013" compressed. This makes starting and seating the RB a pleasure. No blown patches with the .013" ticking either. Lube was Winchester Sutler's "Moose Milk" (soaked the patches in it and kept them fairly wet). However, "Friendship Speed Juice" (equal parts Murphy's Oil Soap, isopropyl alcohol, and 3% hydrogen peroxide) works just as well if not better. Btw, I don't wipe the bore at all when using either lube in the trade gun.

So what did I learn today? (1) That my gun does better with .597" - .600" RB's. (2) That patch thickness is more a question of ease of loading than accuracy. I.e., .013" - .016" compressed pillow tick patches work equally well, but much more effort is needed to load those as thick as .020". (3) That powder charge isn't so critical @ 25yd. as I thought. Today I used 70gr. Diamondback FFg and got the same results as I did with 85gr. of the same powder & Graf's. Moreover, the results with 70gr. Graf's FFFg were about the same, albeit with more recoil. (4) That it's better not to introduce too many variables (ball diameters, patch thicknesses) at a time when testing. (5) That I now need to sell the Rapine mold!

Just for laughs, and practice too since the NMLRA July postal match target is due by the 31st, I tried offhand shooting at a copy of that target (diameter of 8, 9 & 10 rings [black] is 2 3/4"). Once I settled down, I was able to keep 3 in the 8 & 9 rings, but my own wobbliness and flint issues combined to put the other 5 elsewhere. However, 3 of those others grouped into 1" outside the 5 ring. Next up is a test @ 50yd.

[thunderthud]

Maven, I use a cut off cow horn measure for my 20ga. Tulle fusil. I measures from 60 to 80 grs depending on how much i pour in. Since it has no rear sight I'm happy with an 8 or 9 or just keeping it in the scoring rings. lot of times we use bottle targets (paper) at 25 and 50. the 50 a tuffy. I use Goex 2f or KIK 2f. seems the same to me. We use a 600 rb mould from Lee. I like a .015 grease patch w/ mutton tallow or crisco & oil. Be advise the Friendship juice is corrosive because of the peroxide being an oxidizer it is also death on stock finish. I have also heard of the mixture exploding although not seen it myself. during a match I like to wipe the bore out about every 2 -3 shots to keep the heat mirage down.

[Maven]

thunderthud, I've been using Friendship Speed Juice for almost 20 years and haven't observed any of its corrosive effects in my guns. Not saying it can't happen, just saying that I remove it via dry patches, oil the bore and external surfaces, and leave an oily patch (on a cleaning rod + jag) down bore until I next use the gun. H202 is a powerful oxidizer @ 70% concentration, but the 3% drugstore solution is pretty tame and won't explode. Btw, I thought about purchasing the Lee .600" RB mold as well, and would have if the Tanner RB shot poorly.

[thunderthud]

Maven , I used to use it too, cleans ok but its death on some stock finishes. For me soap & water is about as good as anything I have tried. I agree if you dry your bore good you should be good to go. cant put too much oil on a ml imho.
I think there was a article in Muzzle Blasts about the concoction quite a while back. Just wanted to pass on the info.

[northmn]

Teh one thing I have to experiment with for my 20 bore is that of a "cold load" against a fouled barrel. Once I shoot a shot or two, my 20 bore groups vvery well at 75 yards (mine is a smooth rifle and has sights) Still, I am not comfortable with the load out of the clean barrel. Almost think I may need another 10 grains. I use 90 grains in mine but may try 100 for the clean barrel. Once it gets fouled the 90 shoots dead on but the 100 really raises the impact. 90 is plenty for deer loads. At this time it is on the bench getting finished as I have been working on it long enough and shooting it in the rough. If anything, I think the dmage to the ball seating too thick a patch may cancel out any advantages. I use a 600 Lee mold whcih is only about .002 out of round. My Dixie was .004. Some like a 595 mold but i get good enough results with the cheap Lee mold not to bother with a custom mold.

DP

[Maven]

thunderthud, I've been fortunate in that I somehow mangaged to avoid getting that stuff on my stock. Did other boneheaded things, but not that. However, I am seriously considering refinishing that stock over the winter. Thanks for the heads up!

northmn, The trade gun, with only the front sight, shoots the same whether or not the bore is fouled. However, with commercial Moose Milk or Friendship Speed Juice, there is very little fouling and no crud ring to speak of. When I test it @ 50yd., I'm going to increase the powder charge to 85 - 90gr. FFg (Diamondback). Btw, Waksupi has recommended as much as 110gr. FFg for accuracy, but it will jar your fillings loose!

[waksupi]

I have found that I can get fouling cement built up on the breech face, and this does affect accuracy to be worth paying attention to during competition shooting. I try to remember to scrape the breech face every 8-9 shots. If I have a miss, and I know the hold and sight picture was good, I know I have fouling.

[Maven]

Here's a photo of the Rapine (Ray Pine) .600" (.6065" in pure Pb). Too bad Ray is no longer making his high quality molds!

[northmn]

I work up hunting loads using either Crisco or Bore butter and do not have the cleaning action that the liquid lubes give, but prefer it in a hunting weapon. Once fouled the gun settles down but it is that first shot out of the clean barrel. Going to take a bit of experimenting.

DP