Noob Sizing Question

[ExMachina]

I'm posting this, thinking that I already know the answer but here goes:

My 44 Ruger has .433 cylinder throats.

I ordered a 0.432 sizing die from Lee.

When I run bullets through the die, the "sized" bullets come out at around 0.433-0.4335"

Did I order the wrong sizing die or did Lee mess up??

Thanks

[williamwaco]

In my experience Lee sizing dies are never off that much.
I would expect a .432 die to produce bullets in the range of .4315 to .4322.

Send an email to LEE. I have emailed them a time or two and they send me new parts immediately.

[462]

If the throats are .433", you don't want a .432" boolit. In my experience, a .434" boolit would be a better choice.

[mooman76]

Looks like they messed up in a good way. Like 462 said, you want bigger

[ExMachina]

Actually, it was Marshall @ Beartooth who advised me to go with .432"--he said the blow-by would be minimal and that @ .433 i could have difficulty chambering longer bullets once there is carbon in the throats.

And I want to amend my first post and say that some of the ".432 sized" bullets are actually measuring .434 across some diameters. I cant get them through my cylinder, even with fairly strong pressure.

So, I will take the replies thus far to mean that a .432 die should get me real close to that diameter. I will contact Lee on Monday.

Thanks all.

[RobS]

It depends on how hard the alloy is and what measuring tool you are using. Lee will size pretty much spot on with air cooled WW alloy (11-12 BHN) but will size almost a full .001 over this with water quenched or heat treated WW boolits i.e. 20+ BHN. I have two different sizing dies for my 454 Casull boolits and both will size the same diameter depending on what boolit hardness I'm working with.

What are you sizing there???

[462]

Minimal blow-by will cause minimal leading.

Zero blow-by will cause zero leading.

Pick one.

"So, I will take the replies thus far to mean that a .432 die should get me real close to that diameter."

No, I said that a .434" boolit would be a better choice.

[RobS]

Minimal blow-by will cause minimal leading.

Zero blow-by will cause zero leading.

Pick one.

"So, I will take the replies thus far to mean that a .432 die should get me real close to that diameter."

No, I said that a .434" boolit would be a better choice.

If his cylinder throats are smaller than .434 then it will be a hard push to no go getting those over sized boolits into a .4330-.4335 hole if the front drive band extends out into the throats causing the rounds to not chamber.

[ExMachina]

So bullets will "bounce back" after sizing depending on hardness? I did not know that.

And unfortunately, I do not know the hardness of the bullets. They are .434-ish, unsized bullets from Beartooth.

For fun, I just slugged the Lee sizing die with a soft lead ball. The die measures 0.433" across most diameters, but at least one diameter measures 0.432" So the die is out of round.

[RobS]

Yep, boolit diameter does "bounce back" if hard enough. Beartooth boolits are usually 21 to 20 BHN. As to the die being out of round try this: take the same soft lead ball and tap it with a hammer to widen the diameter out to .435 all the way around and then size it again. The .432 spot may be where the ball was .432 originally before sizing.

[ExMachina]

Beartooth boolits are usually 21 to 20 BHN. As to the die being out of round try this: take the same soft lead ball and hit it with a hammer tap it to widen the diameter out to .435 all the way around and then size it again. The .432 spot may be where the ball may have been originally .432.

ball was originally .457" but i realize that might be a problem too. so, i did what you suggested (on the sized ball) and then sized it again. much better!--very close to round and just a tad over .4325"

i have a lot to learn about how lead behaves.

so looks like the die is fine after all. thanks guys!

[geargnasher]

Revolver cylinder throats have forcing cones. Most forcing cones can take a boolit with the first driving band at least .002" over throat minor diameter.

Here's an example of what I mean, drawing copied shamlessly from Accurate Mold's boolit design page. Revolver throats can take a boolit over the minor diameter with no problem in most cases, thus ensuring a tight seal that doesn't blow the lube out of the groove before the boolit even makes it to the rifling:

http://www.accuratemolds.com/img/bulletNose.png

Gear

[462]

If his cylinder throats are smaller than .434 then it will be a hard push to no go getting those over sized boolits into a .4330-.4335 hole if the front drive band extends out into the throats causing the rounds to not chamber.

My S&W Model 24 and 624 (.44 Specials) both have .432" throats. I've beagled a Lyman 429421 to drop .433+" boolits, and they are sized .433". I don't have any chambering nor leading issues.

Initially, when the boolits were dropping at .431" and being run through a .431 lubrisizer, I was experiencing both chamber throat and barrel leading. Based upon that, I suspect that a .432" boolit in a .433" throat will produce the same leading results.

In my case, seated to the crimp groove, the 429421's front drive band does not extend into the cylinder throats. Boolits for my .357 Blackhawk are sized .001" over cylinder throat, also.

[canyon-ghost]

Lead has elasticity, yes. Consider what a gas check does, it keeps the base from deforming while putting the force into the middle driving bands. It forces the lead to flex in the center of the bullet to catch the rifling.

[RobS]

Exactly, your over sized front drive band when loaded didn't extend far enough into the cylinder throats to give you issues.

[RobS]

Well if you have already loaded up a dummy round with one of your current sized Beartooth boolits and it chambers in all six cylinders then you should be fine as is. On the flip side though, if a the dummy round won't chamber in each of the cylinders then it sounds like you'll need a .431 sizer die for the harder BHN boolits.

[ExMachina]

Thanks for the pic Gear--very helpful.

Inspired me to test a dummy round and it chambers very easily. It's making me think that I might want to order a .433 die as well, maybe a .434. Fortunately, Lee makes this option reasonably affordable too.

[462]

Exactly, your over sized front drive band when loaded didn't extend far enough into the cylinder throats to give you issues.

Yep, Mr. Keith knew what he was doing, and his 429421 is but one example.