Black powder with a smokeless gun

[meteorology]

Hi,
I have a Taurus 44 magnum revolver, which I load with 7gr of 38 powder, is there any reason why I cannot use black powder in this .44 case to fire a 240 gr lead boolit?

I can use up any spare back space with a breakfast material.

All the best

John S

[Wayne Smith]

You will need a very good lube for your cylinder pin or it will bind on the powder fouling. I'd guess you might get two cylinder fulls out of it before you needed to pull your cylinder and clean it to re-lube. You also will need to look at your bullet lube. BP requires a lube with no petroleum products.

[geargnasher]

No fouling shroud on the pin could be an issue, but that's why they invented Teflon spray lube! I tried this in .38 Special a few years ago just to P!$$ off some punks at the range who kept complaining about my cast boolit smoke, hauled those around for weeks until they showed up again making their usual "What's that, black powder?" comments. I let them have it with three cylinders full and just grinned and said "No. THAT'S black powder!". It took me about half an hour to get the crust off of my frame, cylinder throats and face, forcing cone, and pin. Not a smart move with a swing-out cylinder, but it was fun! I've shot some BP since in .38 and .357 with dry Teflon spray coating all these surfaces, the crusties wipe right off. Oh, and I WAS using Emmert's lube. The cases and bore were fine.

Gear

[ColColt]

BP has a nasty way of finding those little nooks and crannies in most firearms and depositing lots of it's contaminants there. I've shot bp in everything from a 36 cal Italian repro of the Colt 1861 Navy to a Blackhawk in 45 Colt. I took both totally apart and had to clean the hand(pawl) bolt and trigger springs, etc and found fouling on all internal parts. Too much of a pain disassembling a pistol to be a lot of fun. However, it you don't do this you're liable to end up with rust if it's real bp and not a substitute as it's very hygroscopic....plus it stinks when you clean your gun if you use hot soapy water.

[XWrench3]

yep, the total tear down and cleaning of the gun is what keeps me from shooting b.p. or substitutes in any of my guns besides the b.p. rifle. soap and water just doesn't sit right with me on guns that i do not want rust on. the b.p rifle is nickle plated. and i spend a lot of time and effort making certain there is no water left anywhere when i clean it.

[mdi]

I don't think there is any reason not to shoot Black Powder, if you want to. But, like the gentlemen above stated, fouling may bind up your revolver and cleaning is a chore. I'm not experienced with black powder and fillers (breakfast material/Cream Of Wheat), but I believe most black powder loads will fill the case without need for additional fillers...

Some info here, http://www.jspublications.net/tips/BPLoading.pdf go down to page 22.

[Maven]

meteorology, I tried FFFg in my Ruger SBH (stainless steel, 10.5" bbl.) not long ago with both Ly. #429421 and RCBS 440-250K and was impressed with the results. Although the cylinder did bind, after 10 shots, it was no trouble to remove, clean , and relube the pin. Cleaning the bbl., frame, and inner surfaces* wasn't difficult or time consuming either. However, cleaning the brass is another matter entirely. As for loads, I used 30 - 32gr. Wano FFFg and a BP lube on the CB's and no filler of any kind as there wasn't any room in the case for one. The CB's were seated and roll crimped as per my normal practice. Velocity ranged from ~850fps - 980fps. Btw, after 5 rounds, the bbl. was quite hot to the touch, bringing to mind the phrase, "hotter than a pistol."


*didn't need to disassemble the gun, but I did make sure the hand and its recess were cleaned.

[Southron Sanders]

Geez....There is nothing MORE FUN than shooting .45 Long Colt full power loads in my repro "Cavalry Model" Colt SA Revolver!

There is THUNDER, FLAME AND LOTS AND LOTS OF BLUISH/WHITE GUNSMOKE GENERATED!!!!

Some claim that black powder gunsmoke stinks, but it is the gunsmoke that floated over Lexington, Concord, Gettysburg, the Little Big Horn........so it is the "Gunsmoke and smell of American History."

[nwellons]

I use black powder in 2 of my revolvers. One was designed for black powder, a S&W Model 3 type (1890) in .44 Russian and one designed for smokeless powder, a Russian Nagant revolver.

The Nagant was used with black powder in WWI when there was not enough smokeless so I developed a BP load using a magnum small rifle primer for consistency in velocity. It runs almost double the velocity (and is more consistent) then the commercial Hotshot Nagant ammo.

Cleaning is no problem to me, but I shoot a lot of black powder. I sometimes shoot water down the barrels with a squeeze bottle but I don't always use water. There are good BP commercial solvents out there.

[Wayne Smith]

Cleaning the brass is easy if you have any type of tumbler. Ceramic (and probably stainless) along with water and a little dish soap and you have clean brass. If you want it sparkly dry it and put it in walnut for a bit. If you use the Lyman type vibrating tumbler you need one of the small bowls with a solid lid, or at least that's what I use. I routinely shoot my 44-40's - Uberti Cattlemen and Uberti 1876 - with black. Never thought of trying it with my Nagant!

[Junior1942]

A gallon milk jug 1/2 full of hot water and a squirt of dishwash liquid and lots of shake, shake, shake, shake your booty, is the bestest and fastest way to clean BP brass.

[1Shirt]

I like Gear's sense of reality! Love it when someone at the range says cast leads, wont shoot accurate, or some other junk, and then outshoot them. Particularly with ridle case. Shot 10 rds. of 45-70 with #1 Ruger one time. Shot fine, probably the most miserable cleaning job I have even had on a modern rifle. Junior is right on with the shake and clean method. Best done by having a jug of the liquid at the range and putting the fired bp empties in the jug on the spot.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[Hang Fire]

I would just clean like I do my BP C&B revolvers, which is. Remove grips & cylinder, let frame and cylinder soak in warm soapy water for about half an hour. Scrub well with the soapy warm water using a paint brush and swab bore, flush well with hot water, blow dry with (AC) air at around 40 psi. Check, then spray with WD-40, reassemble and good to go. This method has worked very well for me with no rust or fouling build up over the decades, other's mileage may vary.

[cajun shooter]

Good Morin' Men, You may shoot BP in any modern day gun but will have problems because of design factor. It is no different than turning around and firing smokeless jacked bullet rounds in a BP gun. Neither was designed to be in the others area. As I stated, it may be done but with side problems. I shoot 100% BP all the time. If I load some rounds to practice with they are BP. A lot of you are not correct in your statements of cleaning with soap and water. When the guns were fired during the Civil War and the times before and after that; water and soap was the only products available. It's a old wife's tale about you must clean your gun on the same day you fire it or it will be a bucket of rust. Show me where in history it was noted that after fighting for many a day all the guns seized up and the battle was lost. The powder of old could be fired and not cleaned for weeks with no damage. This is still true today with the exception of any of the fake subs, they will rust over night if in the correct conditions. The products available to clean BP are many and each BP shooter has his favorite. I use a 7-1 mix of Ballistol and water which is then called Moose milk. That is 14 oz of water and 2 oz of Ballistol in a spray bottle. It is made for steel, wood, leather and even the healing of wounds. It was invented by the Germans for the troops in the field of war. After cleaning with it, I put a coat of EEZOX on my guns. You may use any good product you choose.