Boycott Natchez Shooters Supplies, Inc

[JohnH]

Not sure where to put this so here goes....

Couple years ago as I began to explore the internet and reloading supplies sales, I ran across Natchez. I was excited untill I found out that because I live in Alabama I can't buy from them. No legal reasons, they apparently treasure their dealer accounts in Tennessee, Georgia and Alabama more than internet or mail order sales from individuals living in those states.

Over this time, the occasion has come by to tell others about this practice, usually someone will mention buying from them in a thread and I always post about this practice and ask them to boycott Natchez. I found such a post today on another forum, and have decided that I am going to take this boycott up in a higher profile way, I'm making it my signature.

I hope this don't create trouble amoung my fellows here, this is a great forum and I have enjoyed learning from it and participating in it. But I'm tired of laying down and taking it. I have a strong dislike of the fact that I can't buy from them for no other reason than where I live. I have changed my buying practices as a result of this. I hardly if ever buy reloading supplies from the dealers in the area, I dont want my money lining the pockets of someone who makes me pay a higher price by going through their dealer, when they will sell the same product to someone else at a lower price because they live in a different local. I make a point of buying from their compitition and have told them so.

I've written them telling them how I feel about their policy and how it affects me. Don't know if it will do any good. Don't know how ya'll feel about such things, hope you'll join me in not buying from Natchez.

[NVcurmudgeon]

My advice, based on recent experience, is to move on. There are plenty of vendors who want your business. After 15 or so years of dealing with a large mail order gun stuff/reloading/ammo supplier I was told that they can not legally send ammunition or even brass to my ZIP code in Nevada. After appealing to them I was told that it's in the computer and they can't fix it. Now I am getting a better deal from another company. Checking with local law enforcement I found no such law or ordnance. Natchez may or may not tell you the true reason, but they sure don't want you. It's not worth the aggravaion, the market place will eventually sort out the unaccomodating.

[felix]

This is not a new practice at Natchez. It was in effect back in 1987 for sure when I ordered a new RCBS Rockchucker to keep company with another onhand. Because it was so cheap, I think 35 bucks delivered, I had it mailed to my brother in New Madrid Missouri with my name on it instead of to Huntsville Alabama where I was at the time. He said my new address is in Huntsville, and the postman re-delivered it to where it should have politically gone in the first place. Yes, that was the last time I ordered anything from that outfit. ... felix

Come to think of it, if anyone wishes to do the same when a drastic cost savings is at hand, let me know in advance of a package being sent to YOU at my address. I will take it down to a friendly postoffice man (they guy who did the lube mailings, also a gun nut) and have him send it to you. If there are any mailing charges (hopefully, not), you can refund me. Please, no hazmat stuff. ... felix

[TCLouis]

If they go selling to the same folks their dealers sell to they kill sales for their dealers and that is a major problem for a distributor. The outfit located in Huntsville used to have the same rule . . . Retail prices for those within so many miles of Huntsville.

I am a firm believer in free choice, just like posting a business against "carrying" . . . my choice is to go somewhere else if one does post their property, BUT it is their property.

I am too close to order from Natchez also, so I go to Mid South Shooters Supply in Clarksville for my orders. Folks used to complain because MidSouth charged shipping and the other guys didn't . . . my response was always, LOOK at the price differences and tell me shipping was "FREE". Yeah Right!

[9.3X62AL]

Just about all of my reloading components come from Internet suppliers, because local shops generally refuse to stock very much of what I use. I buy primers from local folks, but much of the rest of my "consumables" are ridiculously over-priced locally. I don't mind paying a bit more to local shops, but 2# of Alliant 2400 ran me just a few cents short of 54 bucks on Friday. Bullet prices are similarly unreasonable. The usual suspects online can ship my jacketed bullets for about 25%-30% less than I pay locally--and that's not the Win/Rem bulk components, I'm talking Nosler Partitions and BT's. I also don't have to pay another 8% sales tax--yet. The bulk J-words run less than half the price of locally purchased Sierras of the same size/weight/venue.

Internet components--surplus powders--cast boolits. The locals can sell me primers, since that is all they seem able to provide reasonably, otherwise I'm shopping elsewhere.

I've never done business with Natchez.

[buck1]

They never would send me a "real catalogue" so I never send them a order.
Midway and midsouth are where my hard earned bucks go!!!...........Buck

[Beau Cassidy]

Mid South has pretty good prices but I buy from Grafs. $3.75 shipping if ordered online. The 9.5% TN tax plus shipping negates any savings from Mid South in my case. The last time I ordered from Grafs they were kind enough to send me an e-mail (a REAL one- not an aut reply) that an item I wanted was on backorder and that they apologized for the delay. They have almost all of my business now- some things they just don't have.

Beau

[BruceB]

Dang, guys...after reading this thread, I am just humbly grateful for my circumstances!

In my li'l hometown of Winnemucca, maybe a total population of 7500 PRO-GUN folks, I'm blessed to have TWO very helpful and interested hardware stores (!) which actually CATER to my "special needs", as well as actually stocking an extremely good variety of shooting and handloading "stuff". True-Value Hardware, for example, stocks RCBS die PARTS as well as dies. Things such as expander balls, decapping rods, shotshell loader bushings etc. are right on the shelf!

The Reliable Ace hardware store special-orders brass, bullets, powders etc. for me, and often will expand its regular stock to include such items after I special-order them....XMP 5744 is an in-stock item since I ordered in four pounds several years ago. Deputy Al's 2400 purchase would have cost him about THIRTY-four dollars, not fifty-four! Winchester brass, in calibers NOT in stock, usually arrives in less than a week, with NO shipping...and laid down here cheaper than Midway's catalog price before shipping is added. They just located and supplied me with a case of 5000 #34 CCI 'military' rifle primers, but THAT took at least two weeks...gee whiz.

Oh yeah...and they will NOT charge me a nickel for doing dealer tranfers "on anything we don't normally stock"...such as the used S&Ws I love to buy, C&R rifles, etc etc.

New guns at both stores are plentiful, and the prices compete extremely well with Shotgun News and Internet pricing.

Nevada Shoot attendees can testify to the fact that I yam blessed to have these stores available to me. After reading all the above, I feel DOUBLY blessed! It'll be a damned cold Nevada August day that I spend any money on components anywhere out-of-town...and I make certain that my stores KNOW that they're appreciated!

[C A Plater]

Well I guess Natchez is going to boycott me. I'm working in Huntsville, Alabama now so they will no longer sell to me. Guess I'll give the business to Midsouth, Graf and if on sale, Midway instead. Too bad for them, I buy a lot of stuff.

[9.3X62AL]

Bruce's situation is an admirable one, all right. If I lived in Orange County (Scrounger's old haunts) there are a couple shops that are very well-stocked and the prices aren't too bad on their consumables. Out here in the relative hinterlands, the shops aren't well-appointed reloading-wise. That's a very poor business practice, because ammo and component sales drive gun sales as well as the reverse situation. Given the 45 minute total man-hour time to sell a gun that the government requires in the PRC, selling ammo and components can be a far better and more profitable venture than selling guns.

[Char-Gar]

I have never bought anything from Natchez and have no intention of doing so, but I can, after a fashion, understand their marketing decision that you find so distasteful.

If a vendor undercuts the prices of his dealers through direct sales, they soon won't have any dealers as they dealers will go elsewhere. I guess Natchez did the numbers and feel what they make through local dealer sales outweights why they would make through direct local sales. It makes sense to me.

It is sorta like blacking out a big game in the local area on TV. If it is seen on local TV, the stadium will be empty.

For years I traded with Midway by mail, but online they don't take Amex and that is what I use. I don't like credits cards that will allow you to accumulate debt. Too darn easy to get in over your head.

I traded with Mid-South until I had trouble with one of there employees taking orders. I posted a negative comment on the old Shooters board and started getting hot emails from the owners. Their employee lied to them, and they bought the lie, hook line and sinker and castigated me very strongly for trying to damage their business. I don't trade with them anymore.

I buy everything from Graf's. They don't cherry pick a product line, but carry it all, take Amex and don't give me any lip.

I agree with the gent who said the market place will sort all of these things out. If the Natchez policy is costing them more money than it makes for them they will change it. No sense getting your "knickers in a twist", about it. It only damages your peace of mind and put a fierce tear in your Karma bag.

[Iron River Red]

Up here in N.E. Tennessee, I am a member of several rod and gun clubs and most have a purchasing service. If I need reloading components, I can go to them and payup front and in a week or two when they have a club purchase of clay pigeons and shot, I get my order cheaper and without hazmat fees.

Also, 2 places to check out are Widener's Reloading supply and Gamaliel Shooters Supply. Widener's is in Johnson City, Tn at 800-615-3006 and website is www.wideners.com I believe. Gamaliel is also online and both have what you may need.

I don't do Natchez either, same reason.

I hope they are reading this right now...

[Willbird]

I will say that holding the sale tax issue against a vendor is unfair, YES I hate paying it, BUT it is not the fault of the vendor that they are in the same state as you are.

I did find a shop locally where I can generally buy primers and powder cheaper than if I mail ordered it, even if the vendor picked up the Hazmat.

I have bought from Natchez in the past, I cannot fault them for setting a policy like that, BUT I don't have a dog in that fight because I don't live in those states.....they are not on my A list anyway....I get better service and a nicer selection/catalog from Wideners, Midsouth, and Midway.

A gun store is more than powder prices tho, the cheap guy I mentioned has never given me small parts and screws free (doesnt even have them in fact) like the one that sells powder for $17.00 a pound has...and I have not been dealing with the cheaper guy for 35 of my 40 years. The cheap guy doesnt sell me range lead loaded on my trailer for .03 an lb either.

It's a complex issue I guess, when I buy large qty. of powder or primers I shop price, when I want 1lb or 1000 primers to try...I buy from the long term dealer who provides a FULL service store.

Bill

[JohnH]

Well I guess Natchez is going to boycott me. I'm working in Huntsville, Alabama now so they will no longer sell to me. Guess I'll give the business to Midsouth, Graf and if on sale, Midway instead. Too bad for them, I buy a lot of stuff.

Here's hoping you enjoy Alabama. there is a very active CAS group about 40 minutes due east of you, lots of the members are in Huntsville. I'm about an hour and a half drive due east, I'm right on the Alabama/Georgia line. It strikes my memory that there is a big shooting club over there too. My location makes me pretty much a solitaire, but I also walk out my door and shoot to my hearts content.

[mike in co]

gentlemen,
there are a couple of things to remember.
first: if you do not support the local guys...they may not be there when you want them.
two: i too wish to get the best deal. to do that i work for free doing special orders for an ffl dealer. i go to the SHOT show and set up programs for them, organize large purchases, special purchases. for this i get access to thier ffl ...un restricted. consider how you too might get on the inside.


do smart things with your money, but if its always the bottom line that drives you, you may find the local guy closed.....

i spend at gun shows, at three local gun dealers, sportsmans whearhouse, gander mountain and a local components dealer.....and some money goes to those really nice items thru the ffl....

the 308 mauser used at the cast boolit shoot was built on a rifle from the ffl, the bbl came from a shot show special, but the scope bases came from a local dealer......
spread your funds around.....

[Scrounger]

That's the way I've always done it, Mike. You go in all the shops, even if you don't buy too often. Talk to the dealers, let them know what's going on. If there are other customers there, I try to help them, talk to them about what they're looking at, point out the good points on the rifle or whatever they're looking at. It's sort of a second opinion that may be enough to persuade them to buy. I don't lie, I only say the nice things that I do see there. Dealers appreciate that kind of help. I do that at gunshows, too. Here the dealer is really short handed. Multiple people looking at his merchandise and usually only a wife or girlfriend to help. (Yeah, sure) I always get better deals than my friends do at the shows. They can't understand why the dealers like me better. I just tell them that some of us are "born to the business" and we recognize each other by instinct.

[Ross]

Some years back, I asked Fred Huntington why I had to go to the next town to get discount prices on his RCBS stuff. He frankly told me that if he sold at discount from his store he would lose all of his northern California dealers.
That does not offend me, nor did he get hostile that I went elsewhere to buy his products.
Though it may cost more, I still buy locally when it isn't too costly. A full service store is a blessing I wish to support.
Both Huntington's Sportsman's Store and the now separate RCBS are indeed full service and it is a joy to have such riches in my little town.
Cheers from Darkest California,
Ross

[JohnH]

I would love to have a full service store available. We have two gun shops, and that is all they carry, guns. Walmart took over the ammo market and there are not enough reloaders in a town witha populationof 10,000 to support stocking reloading supplies. Nearest stores that do are minimum of 40 miles in any direction form me. No matter how I add it up, I can mail order cheaper, with less hassle, and with far less wear on my aging pickup than I can by supporting dealers who are not local to me anyway. For me, an online supplier who does not allow me to purchase from them is no different from being told that I can't buy gas at a local station because they don't sell to people who live in the county.

[mike in co]

WHAT YOU HAVE WITH NATCHEZ is an unusual situation.
typical structure is RETAIL-DISTRIBUTOR-MANUFACTURE
most manufactures/distributors do not sell to the public; most retail do not distrubute.
what you have run into is the exception, a retail store that is also a distributor. What you have is the results of doing both, he MUST protect his distribution...they spend more with him than his local retail might ( ps if it was otherwise, he would give up the local distribution for the local retail).
its called business.
you have the right to to boycott, but i doubt you and all your local shooters represent enough retail biz for them to change thier plan.
its life deal with it.....
there are plenty of other sources....
maybe try asking a local store if they would honor natchez prices ??

[JohnH]

WHAT YOU HAVE WITH NATCHEZ is an unusual situation.
typical structure is RETAIL-DISTRIBUTOR-MANUFACTURE
most manufactures/distributors do not sell to the public; most retail do not distrubute.
what you have run into is the exception, a retail store that is also a distributor. What you have is the results of doing both, he MUST protect his distribution...they spend more with him than his local retail might ( ps if it was otherwise, he would give up the local distribution for the local retail).
its called business.
you have the right to to boycott, but i doubt you and all your local shooters represent enough retail biz for them to change thier plan.
its life deal with it.....
there are plenty of other sources....
maybe try asking a local store if they would honor natchez prices ??

Mike, you are exactly right, he wants his cake and wants to eat it too. Simple greed. He is NOT honoring his dealers, he is honoring his own pocketbook. Probably wouldn't tick me off quite so bad if his store was more than an hours drive away. As it is, he just far enough away to be a long run, and is not in a direction I would normally go in for anything.

Guess I'll have to settle for doing business elsewhere and letting him and anyone else who'll listen know I dont like his policy.

[beagle]

I've been boycotting Natchez for years. About 5 years ago, I was coming through the area on my way home from Christmas vacation. They were advertising primers so I saw an opportunity to load up without paying hazmat.

I called and got this snotty little b__tch on the phone and she said, "We don't do retail sales...only mail order". And I had green cash money too and told her that.

After that, I've left Natchez alone./beagle

[BD]

I guess I'm the odd man out on this. I live in northern Maine, and have no local reloading suppliers. If I'm ordering over $100 I will offer the nearest, (40 miles away), supplier the order at "my price" from Natchez or Grafs, and he generally will take the order, but it might be 6 months. I have a standing order with him for primers, which he fills whenever he gets an order together. I have used Natchez, (among others), for ten years and they've treated me well. They even supported me in a dispute with Dan Wesson over pricing on a 744 I ordered through them four years ago. I've had far better luck talking to the folks who answer the phone at Natchez, than at Midsouth or Midway. And, they often have what I want in stock, "will ship it today". Sorry you happen to share the state's tax burden with them, BUT I won't quit using them anytime soon.
BD

[BLTsandwedge1]

[QUOTE=Chargar]"I have never bought anything from Natchez and have no intention of doing so, but I can, after a fashion, understand their marketing decision that you find so distasteful.

If a vendor undercuts the prices of his dealers through direct sales, they soon won't have any dealers as they dealers will go elsewhere. I guess Natchez did the numbers and feel what they make through local dealer sales outweights why they would make through direct local sales. It makes sense to me."

I agree to a point Chargar, but the practice of actually refusing local retail business tells me that their pricing model is odd to begin with- assuming their reasoning is to avoid undercutting their retailers.

I'm not a retailer- I'm a resort guy. There are some things in common between the two- like buying in bulk should equate to a discount. I can't tell without looking at their books- but I can't imagine Natchez offers only their web prices to their local retailers- I've got to believe that Natchez does give wholesale discounts to their retailers- prices below what are offered to you and me on the web.

IMHO there may be two scenarios in play:

Let's believe for a second that Natchez gives a wholesale rate to the retailers. The retailers bump the price of the merchandise to create a margin.

a) The discount given to the retailers is not deep enough for the retailers to create enough of a margin- and the retailers, in turn, threaten to go elsewhere for better wholesale rates.

b) The retailers are threatening to pull their wholesale accounts if Nachchez competes directly with the local retailers- even if the prices are the same. One thing I do know about retail is that in-store traffic will generate more revenue than will a mail-order- it's called "impulse buying." That's how retailers can do things like two-day deep discount sales without expensive advertising- and advertising is stoopid, insane expensive (placing ads is what I do for a living).

The end game is that Natchez agrees not to retail locally because of the potential for lost in-store traffic/product exposure/revenue. I absolutely admit that when I go to the local gun shop to buy a pound of IMR 4350, something else goes home too......like a gun that I suddenly can't live without. But scenario B is the challenge that eCommerce creates for every company that offers both wholesale and retail pricing. We end up back at the beginning- without looking at the books we can't tell why Natchez refuses local retail business.

Regards...........

[StarMetal]

BLTsandwedge1

Being I live in TN I don't believe what you said about Natchez is their reason. In buying all sorts of stuff from home remodeling to gun supplies, the retailers in TN don't want you getting anything besides buying it from retailers that sell that type of product in TN. We remodeled our kitchen few yrs back and were looking for tile. Well we ended up going to a tile wholeseller and mentioned we couldn't find anything on the web. They got pretty pissed and said they wished the state would ban internet sales. Natchez doesn't give a damn about their dealers, they just don't TN residents getting it cheaper or easier then having to use a dealers. If they have something I want that's cheaper then anywhere else I just have my friend order it having it shipped to Ohio, where he lives, then on to me...screw Natchez.

Joe

[BLTsandwedge1]

BLTsandwedge1

Being I live in TN I don't believe what you said about Natchez is their reason. In buying all sorts of stuff from home remodeling to gun supplies, the retailers in TN don't want you getting anything besides buying it from retailers that sell that type of product in TN. We remodeled our kitchen few yrs back and were looking for tile. Well we ended up going to a tile wholeseller and mentioned we couldn't find anything on the web. They got pretty pissed and said they wished the state would ban internet sales. Natchez doesn't give a damn about their dealers, they just don't TN residents getting it cheaper or easier then having to use a dealers. If they have something I want that's cheaper then anywhere else I just have my friend order it having it shipped to Ohio, where he lives, then on to me...screw Natchez.

Joe

Joe, that's exactly what I attempted to say- the #1 criticism I hear about myself is that I'm too damn wordy- to the point of confusion. Sorry 'bout that.......

I think tile wholesale would be approached differently than gun stuff in the retail world- buying tile is a planned event and if you're like me, I hate buying remodeling stuff- toilets, countertops etc. No impulse buying here...... Be it a reason for Nachez's market position or not, a retail store that caters to hobbyists/enthusiasts/sportsmen will want all the foot traffic in the world to come through.....so they can sell extra **** to folks coming in for just one thing in mind.

I never ordered from Nachez but before posting I did look at their site- rather retail un-friendly. You gotta know what brand you want before you can see the product. For retail it's definitely Midsouth for me, they're excellent, fair, friendly and accurate- those folks represent TN very well.