Rude Behavior at the Shooting Range.

[Fredx10sen]

I need to get some “standard” or “here is how we do it” practices at your Shooting Range.
When the Line is cold or a break for target replacement is called for are you allowed or able to retrieve forward brass that can’t be accessed while the Line is hot. This is only for the forward brass and also not at the point of holding up the rest of the line. Also at what point are you able to set up or retrieve your chronograph?
I ran across this situation at our local Range this weekend. I didn’t go near the guns or the bench and had a small bucket to put the brass into. Well a guy that hangs out at the Range all the time started yelling at the top of his lungs “behind the line”. I stopped and walked down to the end where he was shooting and tried to explain that I am only picking up forward brass that can’t be retrieved any other time. I was trying to be very polite and courteous but this guy had a chip on his shoulder it seemed. He told me he was an RO at that point I explained that I also was an RO as well. I didn’t see a safety issue with this and I was not holding up the line as there where still plenty of people changing targets. The tempature was already around 106 degrees and I was planning to leave with my Grandson after that before it got any hotter.
One of the young men at the range office came down and I explained what I was going to do. He said that he would come down during the next break and I could proceed with what I was going to do. It seemed he knew who I was talking about and seemed a little irritated at the person as though this situation has come up before.
I usually don’t shoot at this part of the Range much and mostly stick to our part of the Range “ Cowboy Range” of which I am a member of.
After thinking about this for couple of days, I feel that I need some other thoughts and input on this. I have never run into someone as rude as this guy at any of the many Ranges I have shot at. If a young shooter or a new shooter ran across this guy it might stop them from coming back. This type of attitude is not what we need in this Sport. Weather I was in the right or wrong here I didn’t need some blowhard that thinks just because he hangs out at the range all the time and that somehow affords him rude behavior towards other people to bark at me as if I was some idiot and this was my first rodeo.
Spending the day with my 13 year old Grandson who was out shooting me was still a Great Day. Thanks. :bigsmyl2:

[Trey45]

If the line was called COLD, and people were down range changing targets, then you had every right to be forward of the firing line collecting your brass, or setting up/taking down your chrono. The Loud mouthed guy was dead wrong and should have been shown the gate.

[frkelly74]

He probably wanted your brass. I smell ulterior motive.

[Gswain]

I suspect there are a few factors at work here.

1. RO has thin nerves from having to deal with idiots, muzzlesweeps, poor trigger finger discipline, and the like.

2. RO could just be a jerk

3. Range picks up brass for reloads that they sell in their store, they want their free brass!

4. RO wants to keep all the brass for himself to sell it later.

One of the local ranes near me, angeles, has quite a few ROs that give you dirty looks when you pick up brass, and will flat out NOT ALLOW you to pick up ANY brass forward of the benches. Thats why I am glad my brass wizard has an extended handle :)

I am not an antisocial person at all, but especially in SO-CAL where idiots seem to proliferate at an alarming rate, I honestly have trouble enjoying the range. When I teach my girlfriends parents how to shoot, ill just take everyone out to the desert and set up our own private firing line with a backstop, and know that everyone will be comfortable and not have to worry about random stupidity.

[merlin101]

Any day at the range is a GOOD day and spending it with your kids/grandkids makes it even better!.
Any range Iv'e been on a cease fire is just that! It's time to set up targets, retieve brass, scratch your bu.. (never mind that one). It sounds like that guy was out of line but be the bigger man and chalk it up to the heat.
I've set up targets and had them fall over on the first shot and don't expect every one else to hold fire for me to run down and set up again nor do I think I should have to wait for some one else to set or get a chronie or target.

[thehouseproduct]

I suspect there are a few factors at work here.

1. RO has thin nerves from having to deal with idiots, muzzlesweeps, poor trigger finger discipline, and the like.

2. RO could just be a jerk

3. Range picks up brass for reloads that they sell in their store, they want their free brass!

4. RO wants to keep all the brass for himself to sell it later.

One of the local ranes near me, angeles, has quite a few ROs that give you dirty looks when you pick up brass, and will flat out NOT ALLOW you to pick up ANY brass forward of the benches. Thats why I am glad my brass wizard has an extended handle :)

I am not an antisocial person at all, but especially in SO-CAL where idiots seem to proliferate at an alarming rate, I honestly have trouble enjoying the range. When I teach my girlfriends parents how to shoot, ill just take everyone out to the desert and set up our own private firing line with a backstop, and know that everyone will be comfortable and not have to worry about random stupidity.
I've been lucky at Angeles. I just try to grab a handful of forward brass each time. Guess I've just evaded his gaze.

[HollowPoint]

Yours is not an isolated incident. On occasion I've had RO's give me the evil-eye for reasons I've never been able to figure out.

I just chalked it up to some issue that they were dealing with at that particular time. It was either that or maybe I reminded them of someone who done them wrong at some point in their pathetic lives.

Although most of the RO's on our public shooting range are absolute sticklers when it comes to safety, there have been a couple that I can remember that seemed to have drifted beyond that and devloped a sort of Range Officer "God-Complex."

Since this is a shooting range with loaded guns within close proximity to just about everyone there, most of us folks that use that facility know better than to act as a self-appointed-"*******" range officer.

If ambient temperature is a contributing factor to heated tempers and rude behavior, then it behooves us as shooters to restrain ourselves as best we can under the circumstances. (especially here in Arizona where the temperature can go to 100 degrees at midnight and above 115 degrees during the day.)

HollowPoint

[Shooter6br]

Had a guy who would tak louding and whistle opera while shooting was in progress. Messed up alot of good groups. He also dropped names of all the greats like Elmer Keith that he new personally. He said no one needed wind flags cause no one could shoot that good to use them He sounded like the cartoon charactor : Foghorn Leghorn"

[Fredx10sen]

I suspect there are a few factors at work here.

1. RO has thin nerves from having to deal with idiots, muzzlesweeps, poor trigger finger discipline, and the like.

2. RO could just be a jerk

3. Range picks up brass for reloads that they sell in their store, they want their free brass!

4. RO wants to keep all the brass for himself to sell it later.

One of the local ranes near me, angeles, has quite a few ROs that give you dirty looks when you pick up brass, and will flat out NOT ALLOW you to pick up ANY brass forward of the benches. Thats why I am glad my brass wizard has an extended handle :)


I am not an antisocial person at all, but especially in SO-CAL where idiots seem to proliferate at an alarming rate, I honestly have trouble enjoying the range. When I teach my girlfriends parents how to shoot, ill just take everyone out to the desert and set up our own private firing line with a backstop, and know that everyone will be comfortable and not have to worry about random stupidity.

He was not the RO for that Range or that day. He was just another shooter. I believe he just threw that out and thought it would stick or matter.
The actual RO gave me permission to police my forward brass. It wasn't more than 20 pieces but had been prepped for that Semi Auto. Fired formed, trimmed and primer pocket swagged.

[Shooter6br]

My rude man at the range www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LCsiWL6gn0

[Jim]

He was not the RO for that Range or that day. He was just another shooter.....The actual RO gave me permission to police my forward brass.....

I would have spoken with the RO that gave me permission to pick up my brass and let him handle it. It's the RO's responsibility to handle situations like that and he has the authority to enforce the decisions he makes.

[rockrat]

At our range, once the line is signaled cold, you can go forward to change targets, pick up brass, get your chrono, ect.

Sounds like he wanted your brass!!

If there is brass near another shooter, we will ask if it is theirs and if so, then do you want it. Many times I am the only one there , and any brass on the ground is mine!!!

[Harter66]

It is a rare day to have more than 2-3 people on our public range at any time. When there is its all about open communication. Only once have I seen just blatant stupid and never any bullying not even from the SO doing qualifications, as a matter of fact they threw the last 2 shoots of their brass in my bucket . Seems to me like the current on duty RO should have handled that situation, and not left anyone steaming.

[bowfin]

Next time, politely tell him to follow the chain of command. If you really want to get his goat, ask him if he knows what chain of command is and how it works.

"You see, there is you, and there is a REAL Range Officer here. If you see me doing something that you think needs to be addressed, you go to the REAL Range Officer and he will decide how to handle your complaint. Either way, it ends up with you not talking to me and only the REAL Range Officer giving guidance and commands. Got it?"

[DCM]

I belong to 2 local clubs and the only reason we get in anyone's face during a ceasefire is for handling firearms and that we DO! Usually as a group.
There are signs up and down both ranges stating this fact and none of us take it lightly.

You are free to police brass, set up targets, set up or remove a chrono. etc. just don't touch any firearms during a ceasefire.

[HeavyMetal]

I have two ranges here in So Cal that I do not freqent because of ammo and or brass policies.

Both are indoors. Range one, La Puente, does not allow you to shoot lead BUT you can buy FMJ ammo ( from him) to shoot becase it's lead free. Surprisingly it's the same 9mm ammo I can buy at Wal Mart for 12 or so bucks a box that has an exposed lead base on the "FMJ" bullet! Can one smell "scam" here??? I would be more impressed if he just put up a sign saying no reloads.

Range two downtown LA any brass that is fired is thiers hit the floor or not! Bought there or not! We simply don't shoot there!

Any range, Particularly an outdoor range, that will not allow you to police your brass during a line break has a problem. Now if the shooter is throwing the brass on the bench near his guns I can see words exchanged considering proximity to a weapon during a line break and this should be done at the descreation of a real RO.

Any other behavior by range officials is unexaceptable!

[458mag]

I hate rude behavier in folks and I'll not tolerate it. Woodrowe Call is one of my all time heros!!

[Charlie Two Tracks]

The small range I go to has no Range Officer. We usually go there Friday after work and have the range to ourselves. It ain't very fancy but I like the isolation factor. So many people want to be the boss and tell others what to do and how to do it..........

[WildmanJack]

I shoot at a state run public range. There is one range safety officer for 4 ranges!! Yeah, run like a typical state organization.. Now there is a red line painted on the deck about 3 feet behind the firing line. When the range goes cold.. No one is allowed in front of the red line. Anyone going down range walks down the length of the firing line and exits to the far right to change their targets. If you go in front of the red line during a cold range you will be told once that it is against range rules to cross the red line during a cold range. If you cross that red line again you will be nicely escorted off the range ans asked to not return.
As far as picking up your brass, you may do it when the line is hot so long as you don't reach in front of the firing line which is obvious. Brass that falls out in front of the firing line can be picked up during a cold range but at no other time.
Due to only one RSO being on duty at a time, sometimes the regulars take charge at the range and call cold range or hot range, but they are responsible shooters that make sure EVERYONE is following the rules of safety. I have had to shout down the line a number of times to get someone back behind the red line during a cold range. And personally I don't care what he is doing, he does not belong there.. I'm sorry if someone yelled at you, but if you were in the wrong place at the wrong time they were only doing it to protect you and the rest of the shooters...
Just my humble opinion...
Jack

[Johnch]

If the line was called COLD, and people were down range changing targets, then you had every right to be forward of the firing line collecting your brass, or setting up/taking down your chrono. The Loud mouthed guy was dead wrong and should have been shown the gate.
:goodpost:

I 100% agree

Cold is Cold

No differance between picking up brass and changing targets

John

[Ron.D]

I'm not sure what it is about range officers, I'm one myself, but some of the rudest SOB's I've met, have been RO's. I've even been told how many rounds I can shoot before the line is announced as cold. You may never question a RO at our club, but must take your concerns to the board of directors, so no matter how upset you are, you reply "yes sir" and stuff it. I don't believe many of us here use a range with any but the safest of habits and rules, but sometimes I'm left thinking that RO is some peoples quickest route to authority otherwise missed. Rant over, it's been a long time coming. Ron.D

[jsizemore]

I shoot at a state run public range. There is one range safety officer for 4 ranges!! Yeah, run like a typical state organization.. Now there is a red line painted on the deck about 3 feet behind the firing line. When the range goes cold.. No one is allowed in front of the red line. Anyone going down range walks down the length of the firing line and exits to the far right to change their targets. If you go in front of the red line during a cold range you will be told once that it is against range rules to cross the red line during a cold range. If you cross that red line again you will be nicely escorted off the range ans asked to not return.
As far as picking up your brass, you may do it when the line is hot so long as you don't reach in front of the firing line which is obvious. Brass that falls out in front of the firing line can be picked up during a cold range but at no other time.
Due to only one RSO being on duty at a time, sometimes the regulars take charge at the range and call cold range or hot range, but they are responsible shooters that make sure EVERYONE is following the rules of safety. I have had to shout down the line a number of times to get someone back behind the red line during a cold range. And personally I don't care what he is doing, he does not belong there.. I'm sorry if someone yelled at you, but if you were in the wrong place at the wrong time they were only doing it to protect you and the rest of the shooters...
Just my humble opinion...
Jack

Jack, Let me get this straight. You have to exit the firing line to the right behind the red line, and then you can walk back to your firing position in front of the firing line when the line is called cold? Did I get that right? How wide is the firing line (from behind the red line to in front of the firing line)? How long is the firing line (red line)? Do ya'll use a open chamber indicator during a cease fire?

[1Shirt]

Not to insult you, but you are shooting in California-------and, there are a lot of things out there that are off beat which probably includes range officers. It has been my experiance that a whole lot of range officers seem to acquire a God complex, and not just in Ca.:coffeecom
1Shirt!

[shooterg]

Like DCM said - anything except handling firearms is OK during a cease fire - pick up brass, pick your nose, paste targets/etc. Just don't touch a gun and all firearms should be unloaded with actions open, safeties engaged and magazines(if any) removed. We don't require an empty chamber indicator but using one seems a good idea, makes any RO's job easier. Our range is private and firing is allowed by members without an RO but safety rules are same all the time. All our members have attended a Range Safety Class and passed a written test, but there is always the 1% that thinks the rules are only for everyone else. Some RO's may have seen so much "stoopid" that they start seeing it when it ain't there. In today's world any Range is only one shot away from closing so maybe an RO comes across as a "range Nazi" sometimes(and maybe he is!). A lot are volunteers so maybe he was having a bad day.

I always walk the line before going downrange after a called cease fire to ensure all the benched guns are in a safe condition - because I like me very much !

The bit about walking down one side of the Range seemed strange - but we did do that once when we were trying to grow grass !

[shovel80]

Talk too the Club President about the situation, and see what he has to say!
Terry

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
You were not wrong.
I have run into the guy here in Provo, & his skinny brother.
I chose to just walk away.
In fact mostly will not even go to the gun club range anymore because of those two.:Fire::Fire:

[oscarflytyer]

I bought and paid for my damn brass. It is MINE! If I am target shooting, I WILL retrieve it. If they don't like it, I won't shoot there.

An exception is when shooting a match. recently shot my first steel plate match. I am aware that matches have special rules. I asked. RO said that as we transitioned from the right side setup to the left, and vice versa, I was more than welcome to pick up my brass. I did just that.

Unless they are turds, or just plain thieves, they will let you pick up your brass. Heck, even the indoor range I shoot at, which sells the brass, lets me pick mine up. They know me, and even let me pick up brass (45 ACP) that is still on the floor/hasn't been swept 'down range!' They know I reload, as do they, and they are a GREAT bunch of guys.

[Fredx10sen]

Thanks for all the input and opinions. It's interesting to see some of the different rules at the many different Ranges out there. I need to clarify something though. This person was just another shooter and I had the permission from the people running the Range to police the forward brass at the next break. I also know the owner of this Range and will bring up this misunderstanding to his attention without mentioning any names when I go back. It's a very nice Range with a lot of very nice people. I just hope he doesn't run off new Shooters. When the guy told me he was an RO I just laughed to myself and walked away. Though he may be an RO somewhere, he wasn't the RO on that Day or that Range. I am aware that some Ranges might have some difficulties in brass retrieval because of the design as in Long Beach Pistol Range or Huntington Beach Sheriff Range and most indoor Ranges. This is a Range without those restraints and in my opinion it is not an unsafe practice as long as your forward of the bench away from any guns and don't impede other Shooters time. Again Thanks for all the different input.

[WildmanJack]

JSizemore,
The firing line is about 10 positions long. There is only one avenue of exit to the downrange area, that is to the right or the left depending on which range you are using. Everything else is blocked off with fencing. So when the range goes cold, everyone locks open their actions, removes any live rounds in a magazine, or just removes the mag. Steps back behind the red line and awaits the command that the line is cold, all shooters may now go forward and change their targets. At this point you exit to the right ( or left depending on which range you are shooting, you can now walk up close to the bench on the down range side and pick up your brass and/or go down range to change your targets. When you get back you have a seat till everyone is back and you hear the command that the range is hot, eyes and ears protection is required. Now you can walk forward of the red line, up to the bench, bend down and pick up your brass that may be at your feet and continue to shoot. I'm trying to explain that as best I can, but may have even confused myself. Actually it's pretty easy and if everyone is cooperative very safe..
Jack

[WildmanJack]

I probably should have stated that the line is a one piece solid bench that stretches for 10 positions. There is no other way to go down range unless you crawl under the bench... Sorry I should have said that before..
Jack

[458mag]

HI,
You were not wrong.
I have run into the guy here in Provo, & his skinny brother.
I chose to just walk away.
In fact mostly will not even go to the gun club range anymore because of those two.:Fire::Fire:
I will not walk away from ANY situation when I KNOW I am in the right. Edmond Burke said it best. The only way evil can prevail is when good men stand by and do nothing. If these clowns are not range masters then its high time you and your fellow shooters take your range back. I will police my own brass, as a fellow poster stated, I paid for my brass and if ANYONE thinks they can take it away from ME they are welcome to try. Some call this practice THIEVERY. Time to grow some gonads boys.

[Char-Gar]

I take it you were not picking up just your brass, but others as well. Most ranges allow you to pick up your brass, but not scavenge the range for brass. The unpicked up brass is often a source of income to the range.

[458mag]

Our range has small barrels for UNWANTED brass and large barrels for trash. Brass placed in the barrels is donated to the range or range master. We get great deals on once fired brass. Brass left on the ground by lazy shooters are fare game for those of us who reload. Those of us who are regulars at the range have been asked by the RO to assist at times during heavy range usage. Mostly we are grown adults and acked accordingly. A shooting range in 103 degree heat is know place for rude behavier by a fellow shooter and that person should be escorted away from decent folk until they cool off and decide to play right.

[Jim]

.....The actual RO gave me permission to police my forward brass. It wasn't more than 20 pieces but had been prepped for that Semi Auto. Fired formed, trimmed and primer pocket swagged.

The way I read it, he was picking up HIS brass.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

GEE WHIZ ? Where are the "rough men standing watch" or is this just some petty range thing to complain about? The fix is a CLEARLY POSTED SPECIFIC RULE.

Why don't you get 20 sympathetic friends to go with you and when MR. RO big boy acts up, shut him down with the management?

BvT

[jsizemore]

I probably should have stated that the line is a one piece solid bench that stretches for 10 positions. There is no other way to go down range unless you crawl under the bench... Sorry I should have said that before..
Jack

Jack, Thanks for giving me a clear picture of your range setup. I thought for a moment that commonsense might have exited the range when the RED LINE was introduced.

[Olevern]

I am soooo glad I have my own ranges on my own property.

[Jim]

i am soooo glad i have my own ranges on my own property.

ditto that!

[jsizemore]

I am soooo glad I have my own ranges on my own property.

Me three!

[458mag]

Me four

[Fredx10sen]

GEE WHIZ ? Where are the "rough men standing watch" or is this just some petty range thing to complain about? The fix is a CLEARLY POSTED SPECIFIC RULE.

Why don't you get 20 sympathetic friends to go with you and when MR. RO big boy acts up, shut him down with the management?

BvT

BY GOLLY, Thanks Bvt for the compliment. To assume that I have any Friends, let alone 20 that would be sympathetic to the cause is just down right neighborly of you. :bigsmyl2:

Actually I took care of the situation that day at the same time teaching my Grandson a lesson that there is Loud Mouthed Rude People everywhere you go and that it needs to be corrected when it happens.


The input I was seeking was, are there some ranges out there that actually do this and maybe I might have wronged this person by pointing out his rude behavior.

Thanks for your input though and your right about the fix being "CLEARLY POSTED SPECIFIC RULES" which I will bring up to the owner of the Range next time I am there so as to not run off New Shooters to the Range or Shooters intimated by some Blow hard that hangs out at the Range alot, which somehow makes him an expert on everything [smilie=s:

[higgins]

The ranges I use are pretty much open to anyone who buys a permit; one's a private club and the other is run by a local government entity. Neither has a designated RO present, so it's up to the people on the line to police themselves. This works OK most of the time, but I'll swear there are times I wish there were a "range nazi" RO present with the authority to excuse people from the range (or revoke memberships at the private range). At the public range I've twice in recent months asked the same guy to step behind the firing line and not scavenge brass while we're shooting; basic range safety like open actions is almost nonexistent; the target frames and boards are shot to pieces by the tactical wannabe crowd seeing how fast they can empty a rifle or shotgun. The frames are shot to pieces at the private range too, but the safety violations are not as blatant because members are more likely to say something to violators. Going back to the original post, if the RO cannot show you a specific prohibition to picking up brass when the line is cold and you can go forward for other reasons, he's out of line.

[bwgdog]

At our local ranges the on duty RSO HAS to wear orange vest/or hat showing that he is the on duty person in charge-Cuts way down on situations as you had-And the safety rules are posted. barry

[Freightman]

Our range has no RO you are on your own, but when the range is "COLD" you sit the sign up and collect your brass. At 106 I would have been the only one at the range period as that is when I go so I have a private range with three pistol ranges, two High power ranges and a 22 range life is good.
We have a bunch of wusses any extreme will give you a private range. As I said Life is Good.

[frank505]

I just go out in the desert and shoot. Nobody minds or bothers me. I tend to stay away from our range especially when the "long range" dopes are around. They have no safe gun handling skills whatsoever and are rude besides.

[gee-gaw]

Hey FredX10sen,
Seems you have a range bully on your hands. Ask the RO to deal with him when he gets out of hand, but don't provoke him...it only makes it worse. I've been an RO for about four years, I have only twice felt the need to get after someone, most times they only need to know what's expected from them. All this was said to let ya know that I don't need to holler at some one to get them to cooperate. That will only get you resented. There is a bucket for brass that is not wanted at the range. It is locked so you cant' pilfer, but you can pick-up brass forward of the line during " range cold" We are strict about no gun handling while the range is cold, and you only get one warning if your caught sweeping anyone with the muzzle of a weapon. I'm sure that others can be heavy handed at times, but at the end of the day, we just want to be able to say " not on my watch" Range Nazis? Call us what you like, we are responsible for the safety of folks that may or may not have the experience to handle there guns safely. That's my .02 worth.
Sorry, I'm off the soap-box now.
Wayne

[458mag]

God bless professional. polite. and yes. strict ROs. I feel about them as I do police officers. I and my family are safer with them than without them. A good RO has the authority to take care of rude and unsafe behavier. Our sheriff dpt training and shooting range is only a half mile down the road. They have at times visited our range as does the wildlife enforcement folks. I guess we are blessed with the quality of people running our range. Folks have been asked to leave either aided or unaided and not return. This is rare, but I guess the words out, if you want to act like an a hole at our range you will be treated as such.

[Az Rick]

I feel for you Guys that have to shoot at a Range. They make it hard to pick-up because they want it. It usually gets sold to someone else, I know. On a busy weekend they have many, many 5gal. buckets full, of once fired brass.
Take your revolvers! Leave the semi-autos at home.

Best, Rick

[acemedic13]

This is why I built a range on my property. Got tired of dealing with people.

[Mal Paso]

I am soooo glad I have my own ranges on my own property.

I noticed most of you "I've got My Own Range Guys" didn't post their location.

Guess we're not shooting at your place. :kidding:

[justingrosche]

If I ever had to ask permission to pick up my own brass, on a cold firing line, that would be my last time I shot at that range. I've heard stories of people not being allowed to pick up anything that hits the ground.
Thats BS, pure and simple.

[Trey45]

The only thing I miss about shooting at a public range is picking up free brass. I don't miss having to keep my head on a swivel the whole time there to look out for some yahoo sweeping the line with his loaded deer rifle. I don't miss the gangbangers rapid firing their glocks sideways. I don't miss the attitude junky that has been there first, done it more times and faster, and knows more than you ever will about every topic known to mankind. I don't miss the dangerous and unsafe gun handling. I really don't miss the fee's!

[AZ-JIM]

At the local range I patron there is a blue line painted on the concrete about four feet behind the benches, unless you are changing a target you're behind the blue line, if you're picking up brass you have to have a broom in your hand, (I guess that would stop a would be "crazy" from shooting with one hand). I have not been told not to pick up my brass or anyone elses (yet). I don't go up and down the range but if its in my vicinity and it's a caliber I use, I pick it up and always ask the people next to me if they save it then if they mind if I pick it up. Sorry, appropriate or not some or most of them are "range nazis", it seems like every other time I go out there is a new rule. I carry my pistols in pistol cases and put the cases in my range bag, if there are firearms in the bag you cannot bring it in or out of the range durring a cease fire. I am all for saftey 110% but come on, unless Chris Angel is at the range that pistol isn't coming out untill I take it out. I have been shooting at the same range for nearly 27 years, I am pretty well aware that I'm not to be near the bench durring a cease fire and I do not like to be treated as if every time I go there it is my first time. I realise that in AZ our population has had an explosion in the last few years, and there are many inexperienced shooters/firearm handlers but one simple rule of don't touch is not that hard to absorb. Soon I am going to attend one of the board meetings and make a suggestion: For the shooters who don't like being harassed, make a saftey class that covers all the rules and expectations for safe range behavior and give the graduates a stamp or identifiable hole punch on thier member badges. All other shooters should have to attend as well and be given the same identifiable insignia etc. That way the range officers do not have to tell the same guy three cease fires in a row not to handle the firearms durring the cease fire. They can look and say " You've been to the training and you know the rules, pack it up and try again next week". I feel this would make the whole experience more enjoyable and more efficient for everyone.

az-jim

[shooterg]

Our range requires attendance at a range safety class(not so much basic safety but also range specific rules) and passing a written test before getting the range card and combination to the gate. All sign a sheet attesting they have read & understand the Club Rules. The Match Directors and others as designated by the Club President comprise the Range Safety Committee/Range Safety Officers. If an RSO pulls your card for any alleged offense, you're done until the RSC meets with you . We seldom ban anyone permanently, sometimes send 'em back to a "remedial' safety class. Gives all parties a mechanism to straighten things out since your fate is not determined by just one person.

[canyon-ghost]

On our range, if there are people downrange by agreement, then all firearms are cleared and grounded- on the bench. If no one has a firearm in their hands, I don't care what you do. You can go in front of the firing line, the targets setters are.
When they come back from setting targets, you need to be back behind the firing line then, right then (within reason).

We work from courtesy and consideration to agree when to set targets, I don't go there to get in somebody's way, or have them inconvenience me. So, Here, want to shoot this?

[Fredx10sen]

Wow this whole issue was not about SAFETY, it was about PROFIT! While looking at all the goodies at the Gun Show today I happened to see a table full of assorted brass of all kinds and who do you think was selling all that brass? Well that would be Mr Rude Behaver himself with all that free, once fired, OVER PRICED BRASS in nice neat baggies. I might have been born at night butt it wasn't last night. His concern must not have been about safety as much as me cutting into his Nice Little Side Line Business by picking up all my OWN BRASS! PRETTY PETTY TO BE SO GREEDY, that fear of retrieving my brass would leave him soooo broke!

[Lloyd Smale]

If someone at my range makes a mistake i yell "LLOYD STOP THAT" and if that doesnt work and Lloyd goofs up again I call STOP SHOOTING and make him crack a beer or a pop and take a time out. Seriously i have alot of respect for you guys that shoot at ranges like that. I dont think id still be shooting if i had to put up with that kind of ****.

[gew98]

Alot of local shooters to me regularly complain about the range Nazi or two that Knob Creek Range has. I feel for them... I've got my couple hundred yard range with steel targets and hanging manhole cover all to myself...and always welcome those whom want to come ring the gong ( manhole cover ).
I think I'd blow a gasket if some range nazi said I could not pick up my brass !.

[jsizemore]

Wow this whole issue was not about SAFETY, it was about PROFIT! While looking at all the goodies at the Gun Show today I happened to see a table full of assorted brass of all kinds and who do you think was selling all that brass? Well that would Mr Rude Behaver himself with all that free, once fired, OVER PRICED BRASS in nice neat baggies. I might have been born at night butt it wasn't last night. His concern must not have been about safety as much as me cutting into his Nice Little Side Line Business by picking up all my OWN BRASS! PRETTY PETTY TO BE SO GREEDY, that fear of retrieving my brass would leave him soooo broke!

Did you buy your brass back from him?

[Hickory]

I'm glad that I have my own range at the house,
and the only idiot I have to deal with is myself.

Did I say that?

[TCLouis]

The range I shoot on allows any activity EXCEPT ANY HANDLING OF ANY FIREARMS when the line is "COLD".


NO ONE forward of the line for any reason when the line is "HOT"!

If anyone steps forward of the line when it is "HOT" CEASE FIRE is the order.

[buckweet]

whats a range ?

what are you shooting ?

[Fredx10sen]

Did you buy your brass back from him?

LOL No I picked my brass up the day of the incident. ::grin:

[Crash_Corrigan]

WE have the older and fatter version of your RO. He is prone to reinterpreting the rules and regulations according to his mood.

He is overbearning, threatening and generally a nasty fella. I complained to the top dudes at the shooting club and they did nothing. I left. That was last year and I do not plan to return to the club any time soon.

I really enjoy just myself and a pair of friends out in the desert away from Las Vegas. Not a sound other than an occasional plane flying and minding it's own business.

Yes I do have to drive 25 extra miles in both directions to enjoy the desert but it is worth it. No bathroom. No shade. Rough road for the last mile. No electricity.

Quiet. Nobody tells you what to do. When to do it nor in what manner.

[Fredx10sen]

WE have the older and fatter version of your RO. He is prone to reinterpreting the rules and regulations according to his mood.

He is overbearning, threatening and generally a nasty fella. I complained to the top dudes at the shooting club and they did nothing. I left. That was last year and I do not plan to return to the club any time soon.

I really enjoy just myself and a pair of friends out in the desert away from Las Vegas. Not a sound other than an occasional plane flying and minding it's own business.

Yes I do have to drive 25 extra miles in both directions to enjoy the desert but it is worth it. No bathroom. No shade. Rough road for the last mile. No electricity.

Quiet. Nobody tells you what to do. When to do it nor in what manner.

He is not an RO at that operates,runs or has any authority at that Range. He may be an RO for one of the many clubs that use that Range. Just because he told me that he is an RO doesn't mean that he has any authority there. I am also an RO at the Cowboy Club that uses another part of that Range which does not afford me any authority either except when I am RO'ing for our Club or Cowboy Shoot. It is a Great Shooting Range with a lot of amenities and nice people. I usually don't use that part of the Range too often and usually stick to the Cowboy's part where you have to be a member to use it or be there. Anyway I took care of it the day it happened and only worry that this type of person doesn't run off new Shooters with his rude behavior. :bigsmyl2:

[hiram1]

ask him if would like to come to arkansas and help us .then get him a one way ticket.becase some redneck would punch his ticket for the trip back.it is the cop sendrome.just think if he was a cop.billy joe bad for sure

[barrabruce]

I'm only the Vice president and also a RO at our club.
Not big 15 benches+ 8 pistol.

Now when I'm RO I am GOD.

No handling of weapons or ammunition on a cease fire and range is safe.

I sometimes have to remind people of things when I see them doing it wrong.

Usually a quite word in there ear is all that is needed and/or explanation why the rule is there.



I try and involve everyone into the general watch over the range.

Hell I only got one set of eyes...its not my responsibility for other peoples actions.

It is really everyone's responsibility to act safely and remind some-one when they have a "senior or blank moment"

I am really only baby sitting a bunch of adults.

This is what I say to those F'wits that think they smart and behave like wankers or get aggressive toward others.

If they want to be smart to me I just tell them quietly and politely.

"Ultimately I am the one with my *** on the line if something goes wrong.
Therefore my final decision or my request even how ludicrous it may sound must be carried out.
You do not have to agree with it......but you must comply with it.
If not you have can leave on your own accord or be escorted by the police."

Far as brass is concerned. Its yours unless you don't want it...

Fact is no one wants 22lr brass and getting the pistolee shooters to pick up there empties is like talking to a brick wall.They will complain about others peoples thou DOHHHH!
The worst offenders are the .22lr benchrest shooters. They'll just flick live rounds on the ground if they drop them.
Since our range operates 1 1/2 days a week we get kids playing around here as well sometimes.
We don't like finding live or dud rounds about the place.

I'd tell Mr NASTY to politely go get a mullet up his ****!!!

Barra

[Phat Man Mike]

being a NRA R/O I'm gong to call foul!! I think he was looking at getting brass from you and any other there. IMHO

[9.3X62AL]

The range officers at Angeles Shooting Ranges are generally decent, but a few of them over the years have shown quirks that annoyed me. I caught one of them picking up my ONCE-FIRED W-W 45 ACP brass a couple years ago, told him to knock it off, and he kept right at it. Not a mountain I wanted to die on, so we called it a day and I went to the range office and reported his old sorry ***.

Most of the time, I have the local range to myself, or share it with 1-2 other parties. Never an issue there. Nice folks, always--esp. the range officer Elvie. Good guy.

[deltaenterprizes]

As a Range Officer, if I insult you I may be able to make you happy later, if you get shot and die or you shoot and kill someone I can not bring them back from the dead!
It is that serious.

[HollowPoint]

As a Range Officer, if I insult you I may be able to make you happy later, if you get shot and die or you shoot and kill someone I can not bring them back from the dead!
It is that serious.


This makes absolute sense to me and it's what's expected from a good Range Officer but, I don't believe the premise of the original post was based on this type of common sense.

It's those RO's (and shooters) that seem to take their duties to extremes; almost to the point of becoming more of a danger to themselves and others solely by their conduct and attitude.

They're not God. They're just Range Officers. On the flip side; as shooters, there is a certain amount of respect that's expected of us as well; especially since the potential for extreme danger is inherent in our sport.

HollowPoint

[swheeler]

I need to get some “standard” or “here is how we do it” practices at your Shooting Range.
When the Line is cold or a break for target replacement is called for are you allowed or able to retrieve forward brass that can’t be accessed while the Line is hot. This is only for the forward brass and also not at the point of holding up the rest of the line. Also at what point are you able to set up or retrieve your chronograph?
I ran across this situation at our local Range this weekend. I didn’t go near the guns or the bench and had a small bucket to put the brass into. Well a guy that hangs out at the Range all the time started yelling at the top of his lungs “behind the line”. I stopped and walked down to the end where he was shooting and tried to explain that I am only picking up forward brass that can’t be retrieved any other time. I was trying to be very polite and courteous but this guy had a chip on his shoulder it seemed. He told me he was an RO at that point I explained that I also was an RO as well. I didn’t see a safety issue with this and I was not holding up the line as there where still plenty of people changing targets. The tempature was already around 106 degrees and I was planning to leave with my Grandson after that before it got any hotter.
One of the young men at the range office came down and I explained what I was going to do. He said that he would come down during the next break and I could proceed with what I was going to do. It seemed he knew who I was talking about and seemed a little irritated at the person as though this situation has come up before.
I usually don’t shoot at this part of the Range much and mostly stick to our part of the Range “ Cowboy Range” of which I am a member of.
After thinking about this for couple of days, I feel that I need some other thoughts and input on this. I have never run into someone as rude as this guy at any of the many Ranges I have shot at. If a young shooter or a new shooter ran across this guy it might stop them from coming back. This type of attitude is not what we need in this Sport. Weather I was in the right or wrong here I didn’t need some blowhard that thinks just because he hangs out at the range all the time and that somehow affords him rude behavior towards other people to bark at me as if I was some idiot and this was my first rodeo.
Spending the day with my 13 year old Grandson who was out shooting me was still a Great Day. Thanks. :bigsmyl2:

Maybe this RO just needed a Midol

[lbaize3]

Richard Venola wrote an article about rude RO's on the last page of Guns and Ammo two issues ago. Some guy took issue with him in the last issue. Venola told it like it is and I think the guy brought attention to the issue of over zealous RO's with thoughtless and rude manners. I too have had issues with RO's that were demeaning and rude. However, I managed to handle each situation without stooping to their level. And I made sure that was the last time they did that to me. It is good to know the board of directors at the range and to have their home phone numbers.....