casting large 45 cal bullets

[stumpjumper]

this is my first post so hi everyone. i have been hanging out in here for a week or so just reading some of the post. great forum. my question is there anyone in here that cast .45 cal 500 grain bullets with a bottom pour i have had my casting equipment for several years tried it a few times and didnt have much luck. im using lyman moulds. i have made good pistol bullets but i cant seem to get the large one`s under control. would the lee mould work better in that heavy of a bullet.
Dave

[arkypete]

Dave
I've got the same 500 grain Lyman mold.
My suggestion is turn up the heat on your pot, clean the mold real good, smoke the mold and then dip the corner of the mold into the lead until the lead does not stick to the mold. You should be just about right.
What are you shooting the bullets in?
Jim

[beagle]

I've had problems with the Lyman 457125.

As has been suggested, get the mould up to temp, get the lead hot and give yourself a pretty good flow rate.

Casting slow helps to keep the mould temp cool enough to the point where you don't get incomplete fill outs.

I have about settled on 1 bullet every 60 seconds to keep the mould temp down.

Occasionally, nothing seems to work. That's when you call for abreak and go back to it a bit later.

500 grainers can be a PITA to cast./beagle

[arkypete]

I've forgotten which ofthe gun mags that suggested that once the mold is up to temp allow the lead stream say half inch to free fall into the mold. It allows the air more space to evacuate.
My experience agrees with this, but the mold has to hot. To help cool the mold while the lead is cooling, use a chunk of aluminum. I used an old aluminum griddle upside down made a great heat sink.
Jim

[shooter575]

I sorta gave up on bottom pouring anything over 300 gr.I have two Lee 4-20 pots One I dip with.The other is for smaller boolets.I know many others have better luck with bottom pour than I.Main thing is to keep the rhythm the same once you start making good ones.
I use 2 or 3 moulds and cast fast.each one sits just long enough and I dont waste time.It works for me. I usualy only throw back less than 5%, I also have a air gap pouring ether way

[longhorn]

Most BPCR casters of large bullets use a ladle; my SAECO 745 wants about a 1/2" gap between ladle and sprue plate. My Brooks mold prefers contact between the ladle and the plate. Seems to me that using a ladle increases the options in pouring--just what I need, more options.

[hydraulic]

I use a old Herter's .457/500 mould that was probably made by Lyman. My pot is a Lee bottom pour. Since I use the bullets in a trapdoor with Goex 2F I cast them from pure lead, or lead as pure as I can get, mostly cable sheathing. The main thing I have found is to smoke the mould heavily. I use a full kitchen match to each side of the block. My lube is 50/50 beeswax and deer tallow. I cast with two moulds, letting one cool while filling the other. The other one is an old Ideal for my .38-40 Colt SA. We have a monthly .45-70 trapdoor match and I've been shooting the same bullet for several years. Like most everyone else I shoot unbelievablely tight groups. Well, I shoot tight groups when I shoot them with the keyboard--shooting them with a rifle is much harder.

[MT Chambers]

Longhorn beat me to it...for those long BPCR bullets use a ladle..they just seem to turn out better......don't know about Lee moulds as i don't use them in my business, but any Iron or alum. moulds, doesn't matter how many cavities, cast much better for me with a ladle!

[1Shirt]

ArkyPete has is right in my opinion. I cast a number of large/long 45's, and as lond as the mold is very hot have no problem. I bottom pour, and put the mold in the hot lead for an appreciable time beyone the lee few seconds. I keep the RBCS furnace at max temp, and once I get a good frosted bullet try to maintain a steady rate.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[stumpjumper]

arkypete i started out with a trapdoor and now have a sharps. it is my pride and joy. remember smokeless powder is a passing fad!
Dave

[454PB]

I've used the Lee 500 gr. GC boolit in both my own Marlin (which I've since traded off) and my son's guide gun. For me, the secret is to SLOW DOWN. I'm used to casting smaller boolits, and the big guys in a single cavity mould won't tollerate high speed casting.

Preheat the mould in the melt, then let them cool about 20 seconds longer than you would for a smaller boolit. It takes some care dumping the hot boolits from the mould, they will bend if dumped too early.

[arkypete]

arkypete i started out with a trapdoor and now have a sharps. it is my pride and joy. remember smokeless powder is a passing fad!
Dave

I'm sure that Sharps is your pride and joy.
I mostly use a Winchester 1886. Cleaning out the Black powder would be more trouble then I want to get envolved with.
Jim

[Ringer]

I bottom pour from my Lee pot into a saeco 645 2 cav mold at 775-800deg. with good results.Regards,Ringer:castmine:

[Larry Gibson]

this is my first post so hi everyone. i have been hanging out in here for a week or so just reading some of the post. great forum. my question is there anyone in here that cast .45 cal 500 grain bullets with a bottom pour i have had my casting equipment for several years tried it a few times and didnt have much luck. im using lyman moulds. i have made good pistol bullets but i cant seem to get the large one`s under control. would the lee mould work better in that heavy of a bullet.
Dave

I cast quite a few large heavy .45s with Lyman, Rapine and Lee moulds and a couple others in the past. Temp of the alloy has to be hotter with bottom pour pots as mentioned. Also the pour rate must be faster than normal smaller moulds. This is why most use a ladle when casting the large bullets. However you can adjust the flow rate on Lyman pots by screwing out the stop, don't remember about the others. Last the mould must be clean and hot.
I scrubb the oils off the mould with carburator cleaner and clean the cavity with Q-tips. I then heat the mould with a propane torch, the open face, cavity and sprue plate. You can see any excess moisture or oils burn off. When they have the mould is ready and will cast bullets well. I also use only one mould when casting large bullets and do not set it down while the alloy is solidifying. Setting it down caused uneven cooling of the mould and many times in the cooler winter months (in the garage) with aluminum moulds I can have problems.

Larry Gibson

[BruceB]

I wonder why I'm always in the minority???

I have absolutely zero difficulty in casting 500-grains-plus boolits from my bottom-pour RCBS pot, and I do it QUICKLY, using my normal fast/hot technique and cooling the sprue on the ol' wet cloth pad.

My 457125, 457406, and 462560 bullets, all 500 grains or over, typically cast with less than one grain maximum variation (lightest to heaviest) in samples of 20 bullets or so. Fillout is just fine.

The furnace runs at 870 degrees, and the alloy is straight wheelweights.

As usual, I seem to find myself pretty much in agreement with Larry's methods and results.....whether it's coincidence or serendipity or pure dumb luck, I dunno, but we seem to end up on the same wavelength an awful lot.

[carpetman]

BruceB---"I wonder why I'm in the minority"? We can't all be exceptional pard. Most can sketch a little,but artists are in the minority.

[Char-Gar]

Like Bruce, I have had now difficulties casting 45 cal bullets with a bottom pour furnace. IF, I was having problems, I think I would drill the spru hole to a larger size. The base is so big a little bigger spru scar wont hurt anything.

I have had to do this with several older SAECO molds ( non- 45) to get them to act right.

When I used to dipper cast 45 rifle bullets, I took a took one dipper and opened up the hole to let that lead out fast..works just fine.

[montana_charlie]

I have some very good moulds, made by NEI.
The lightest bullet weight is 500 grains, and they happen to be made of aluminum.
When I say they are good, I mean that the bullets they cast are round, smooth surfaced, and drop easily from the cavities. I also don't have to fiddle around much to start getting 'keepers'.

For me, there are two classes of 'keepers'.
Primarily, they are visually perfect, and stay very close to a predetermined target weight.
The 'second class' keepers are those that are good in all respects like square corners and decent weight, but have tiny visual imperfections. These are OK for fireforming cases, fouling shots, and just banging away to have fun or test a new lube.

With each of these moulds, after I found the right temperature and rythym, I tried casting with the bottom spout. Because it's there, I have always wanted in the worst way to be able to take advantage of it.
But I have never gotten anything better than 'second class' keepers from it.

The absolute best and easiest mould I ever used was the iron PGT loaner (from Victory Molds) that I had the use of for ten days. I think, if this mould was put in the hands of a new caster, he would end up wondering what all the fuss is about when it comes to making good bullets.
Once it got up to temperature, I could not throw a bad bullet...except by using the bottom spout.

Yeah, maybe it would work better at a higher temperature.
I like to cast at 750 - 800 degrees, and (for a couple of reasons) I don't go above 850° with the alloys I use.

Then, there is the fact that I have a dipper technique that I trust to put clean alloy in the mould.
With the (Lyman) dipper floating on the surface, I just roll the spout down and let the dipper fill (through the spout) until it's about 3/4 full. As it all comes from below the surface, the alloy can't have any crud in it...no matter how much is floating on top.

When I first tried this, it seemed that filling the dipper so slowly would probably mean 'cooler alloy' going into the mould. But, since the alloy and the dipper stay in contact with the main pool until I get ready to lift it up to pour, it can't change temperature prematurely.

I'll continue to read the comments of the 'bottom feeders', and maybe someday I will give it another go. But, for now, I'll remain a dipper man.
Besides...there might be something emotionally satisfying about actually looking at the lead before it goes into the cavity.
CM

[R.M.]

I started with a Lee 10lb'er, and have graduated to a 20lb'er. One of the first things I look for when I start getting poor fills, is to clean out the nozzle. I've found that you need a quick fill like Beagle suggested. The nozzle can slowly clog, and reduce your fill rate and not even notice it. I haven't cast much beyond .45 - 200 grainers, but if it starts to slow down, it'll be a pain.
Give it a try. I hold a ringed paneling nail in a pair of vise-grips and run it up in and out the nozzle a few times with an ingot mould under it to catch the stream. Works well for me.

R.M.

[44man]

I am a crotchity old goat that has been casting over 50 years with all kinds of molds. I have never made the bottom pour work at any temperature for ANYTHING. The ladle will be buried with me. I have spent years trying to pour from a heighth into a mold too. Surest way to get junk boolits in my opinion. I make the best durned boolits because I am not concerned with casting 1000 an hour. I might, MIGHT, have two rejects a session, never have to weigh or sort any. I just might see a wrinkle if I have to stop for a few minutes to attend to something.

[SharpsShooter]

I wonder why I'm always in the minority???

I have absolutely zero difficulty in casting 500-grains-plus boolits from my bottom-pour RCBS pot, and I do it QUICKLY, using my normal fast/hot technique and cooling the sprue on the ol' wet cloth pad.

My 457125, 457406, and 462560 bullets, all 500 grains or over, typically cast with less than one grain maximum variation (lightest to heaviest) in samples of 20 bullets or so. Fillout is just fine.

The furnace runs at 870 degrees, and the alloy is straight wheelweights.

As usual, I seem to find myself pretty much in agreement with Larry's methods and results.....whether it's coincidence or serendipity or pure dumb luck, I dunno, but we seem to end up on the same wavelength an awful lot.


You are not in the minority or maybe you are and so am I. I routinely cast 530gr postels and 457125's with no problem whatsoever. I use a 50 / 50 blend of PB and WW at 850*. I use a 20 pound Lee bottom pour and while I do not hurry, my production for those large boolits is around 70 an hour and that suits me fine. Also like you weight variation and fillout are superb. The big boolits with bottom pour pots are good combo if you control your temperatures and pay attention to your flow rate too.


SS

[Edward429451]

I have less problem casting bigger boolits with bottom pour than with a ladle also. To me, bottom pour seems made for big boolits.

[stumpjumper]

when you cast with the tempature up that high and cast fast do you end up with frosted boolits. does it matter if there frosted. just curious?

[454PB]

Myself and a lot of others on this forum strive towards getting frosted boolits. It hurts nothing, and indicates that the alloy is slightly hotter than necessary. If the frosted appearance bothers you, it can be polished off with a rag.

[John Boy]

I cast hundreds of bullets in various alloy ratios that are 500gr and above. My process is:
... Clean the molds with Micro 90 (free sample available) ... http://www.ipcol.com/
... Heat the mold and smoke with a stick match
... Bottom pour pot
... For example, determined that the temperature that casts shiny bullets is 730F for the Lyman 457123 or 457125
... Use the Eight Phase Casting cycle ... http://www.longrangebpcr.com/8Phases.htm
... Control temperature with a digital thermometer (plus or less 10* variance)
... When the mold is at the correct temp ... perfect bullets dropped within a bell curve weight that are 0.5gr weight variance