2.5 inches good enough with lead?

[Little Joe]

Hi there!

I have a question for you.

When shooting at 100 yards with a scoped firearm and cast bullets do you think a five shot group that has a measurement of two and one half inches is good enough?Should I keep tring untill I get better groups?

I do shoot tighter groups with jacketed bullets and sometimes I get some better groups with cast but cast more offen then not don't shoot as good as jacketed.

What do you think and expect from cast at 100 yards?

Im out of here,
Little Joe

[waksupi]

Good enough for what? Plinking? Hunting? Probably. If you are shooting gophers at longer range, you may want to squeeze the groups down a bit more. But, there are many rifles that won't shoot jacketed that well.

[Bullshop]

Are you serious 2 1/2 " no way. I dont see any reason to settle for anything less than 2 49/100" I MEAN REALY!!!
BIC/BS

[mag_01]

:coffee: ----Big Joe oops---Little Joe are you shooting off hand ?---What cal. or rifle are you using and 2.5 is OK to start You have to start somewhere----There is shooter development as well as load development---ask questions and learn--there are a lot of knowledgeable shooters here that would be glad to help---Mag

[Sam]

How are you shooting?
What class of load is it:
light plinking thing?
full power from an M1 rifle?
hunting load from a 30WCF?

Couldn't begin to answer without some more information.

Sam

[9.3X62AL]

If it was a sporter rifle or military surplus example, 2.5" at 100 yards is a pretty decent outcome, esp. if a lever rifle. Remember that a 2.5" group at 100 yards is only 1-1/4" of radial dispersion from a "group center". For deer hunting, it's gilding the lily. As mentioned above, if small varmints are the quarry.....some more work might be indicated.

[carpetman]

Little Joe---Go talk to Big Joe if you can find him(not here)and all he shot was one hole--all day long too.

[Bass Ackward]

My goals with HV cast are to shoot at least as well as the gun shoots jacketed.

If you are shooting cast, like cast, at what are standard cast velocities, then it is possible to exceed jacketed bullet accuracy in a sporting firearm.

I have never failed to attain these accuracy goals with any gun or caliber except for the 22Hornet which continues to vex me to this day.

[Bret4207]

Joe- As some of the guys sais it depends on a lot of things like the type of rifle, how well you normally shoot, wind, cartridge, alloy- a lot of stuff. 2.5" may be fine for a rifle with a poor bore and not good at all for a cast friendly rifle. Please give us the specifics and maybe we can help you out.

[robertbank]

Off hand standing I would say for mortals I would say that is pretty darn good, in fact fron anything but a rest I would say 2" at 100 yards is quite acceptable. For bench rest types, competitive shooters and varmit hunters with their equipment not so hot. If you are in to big game hunting I would say you might get tighter groups with more work but it won't make any difference to your ability to take game.

Take Care

Bob

[mag_01]

:coffee: ---Little Joe I bet you got more response to your post than you thought you would---Talk to us we would love to help you----Mag

[Ranch Dog]

I hunt with my cast boolits and expect a 5-shot sub-MOA from every rifle. I shoot hard boolits at jacketed velocities. All are leveraction rifles from the 30-30 Win through the 450 Marlin.

[VTDW]

RanchDog hosts a Postal Match every year. The cast boolit loads/rifles ALWAYS beat the jacketed bullet folks!!! I got tired of comming in 5th place and learned to reload and cast my own. 1st place is the result...at least this year.:mrgreen: It also depends on just how anal you are...I know.[smilie=1:

Nearly all, if not all of the winners shoot cast:
http://www.shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=30605

Dave :castmine:

[felix]

The more you shoot high antimony lead, the more you "break" the gun in for cast. After several thousand rounds shooting this kind of boolit in your typical 30 caliber lever gun, you will have approximately 25,000 rounds of beer can accuracy left to shoot, provided you can still SEE the can and sight the SIGHTS. ... felix

[1Shirt]

Yep, All of the above and then some. Lot of if's and depends', and all that sort of thing. Think ya gotta cast your own, have a lube you trust, weigh the little ones down to .01 and the bigger ones to .03, know your alloy, and it never hurts to have a little bit of dumb a---- luck when you pull the trigger. For me, if I could (with old eyes), consistantly shoot 2-2 1/2" groups with cast for all of my rifles at 100 yds, I would be happy as a hog in slop! Good Luck!
1Shirt!

[robertbank]

1Shirt - a man after my own heart. Common Ranch Dog less than an inch at a 100 yards with a lever gun...not with open sights and my eyes.

The only way I could shoot that tight with my Winnie would be if I shot one shot groups and then I am not so sure.


Take Care

Bob

[montana_charlie]

I do shoot tighter groups with jacketed bullets and sometimes I get some better groups with cast but cast more offen then not don't shoot as good as jacketed.

Little Joe,
Since you didn't provide any details of your cast bullet load, it's tough to guess which way you should go next.

If you habitually switch back and forth between cast and jacketed, you should know that many feel you should clean out all traces of copper before shooting lead.

I'll assume you have worked up loads specifically for cast bullets, but maybe you didn't.
A friend of mine (some years ago) wanted to try cast in his bolt gun. He simply replaced the 150 grain jacketed bullets (in his favorite load) with cast bullets of the same weight.
I don't know what velocity his regular load was supposed to generate, but he leaded his barrel pretty badly...and accuracy was just a word that he knew how to spell.

As others have said, more information is needed...
CM

[Little Joe]

Sorry guys I didnt give enough details about what im shooting.

Custom made TC Encore barrel in 35 Remington thats 18 inches long.

Been shooting 180 grain gas checked bullets that have a big meplat.Ive been seating them into the lands so they are nice and straight and have these bullets lubed up with three coats of Lee brown alox and I am not getting any leading.The muzzle of the barrel ends up with a nice lube star after a few rounds have been fired.

Been working with two powders from start loads to max.Near max loads seem to shoot the best.Start loads seem to shoot the worst.

Ideas for better group size please

thanks,
Little Joe

[SharpsShooter]

With some effort, ie. load developement, I would be the first to say that it is very possible to bring those groups down to minute of angle. The trick is to change only one thing at a time and observe what occurs to the group. If it helps, make it standard and continue to tweak other components until it works the way you want it or goes south on you. I have a 75 sharps that I spent two years tinkering, and hunting for what it really liked. Like you my groups were in the 2" range and I did not let that stop me from using it to hunt. It accounted for a nice doe the first fall I had it . Now groups are sub-minute of angle and it has been a rewarding chase. I recently gave paper patched boolits a try and while the results were not favorable, a new chase has started.

See how it works?

SS

[Little Joe]

SharpsShooter if you were me what would you try first?

Im thinking I should size the bullet alittle bigger.What do you think about that for starts?

Thankyou,

Little Joe

[jhalcott]

Joe ,are you the one posting on greybeard?
I'd start with either a WW alloy or a lyman #2 alloy .then use a round nose bullet like the lyman 358315 (204 gr.). I'd use powders like IMR4064 or IMR3031. Last groups (5 shots) were below an inch. Scoped and on sandbags. This is a
14" contender barrel. felix lube and LLA,Hornady gas ckecks.


















3

[Little Joe]

No thats not me at Graybeards but I will check it out as in might be some help to me.I dont has a Lyman mold for making bullets but I will look at them in the Midway Shooter Supplies.

The only think I dont like about round nose bullets is they dont kill as fast as a good big meplated bullet.The big flats on the end of the bullet makes a bigger wound channel on deer and other game animals.

Thanks,

Little Joe

[montana_charlie]

Im thinking I should size the bullet alittle bigger.What do you think about that for starts?
First, we don't know what you are sizing them at now. And, we don't know any of the dimensions the bullet needs to fit into. So, going bigger or smaller has no meaning to those of us who can't see the gun.

You need to know what the dimensions inside your chamber are. From those, you can make a scale drawing of the area. Then, you can draw in your favorite bullet shape in the same scale.
You might find out that it's shape is all wrong for your chamber.
Just because a bullet touches the lands doesn't mean that it 'fits' anything.

But (at least), knowing the chamber dimensions, you'll have some idea of whether bigger or smaller is the right direction.
CM

[Little Joe]

OK now is see what you are talking about.I better look into getting some of that chamber casting stuff from Midway.I have heard of guys plugging their bores then they pour the liquid chamber casting stuff in till its fills up the chamber and when the stuff cools you get it out with a model of your chamber.Makes sence to me.I may be shooting the wrong shaped bullet from the start.

Little Joe

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I would be unhappy with any cast bullet load over 1.5" at 100, all of my rifles will do that, a few at 200 yards. You just have to have some patience: both behind the ladle and the butt plate. Cull ruthlessly, and don't try for speeds over 1500fps off the get-go.

Rich

[montana_charlie]

I have heard of guys plugging their bores then they pour the liquid chamber casting stuff in till its fills up the chamber and when the stuff cools you get it out with a model of your chamber.
Yep. That stuff is called CerroSafe.
When it cools enough to turn solid, it shrinks. That makes it come out easily.

Later, it expands. That is known by mould makers (for instance) so they know how to make adjustments if they are using a casting you sent to make a custom mould.

You want to measure that casting an hour after you pour the metal...because that's when it most closely duplicates your chamber.

Remember, when you plug your bore, to put the plug a couple of inches ahead of your chamber. Then you also have part of your rifling to measure.
That measurement can help you decide how 'fat' the bullet needs to be.
CM