How much super hard?

[doubledown]

I have a few hundred pounds of pure lead, I want to alloy it with roto metals super hard to make very hard non deforming buck shot, how much should I add to my pure to get where I need to be?

[doubledown]

Sorry, Superhard is 30% antimony, 70% lead.

[Bardo]

Here is a link

http://www.lasc.us/SuperHard.htm

[doubledown]

Thanks Bard, I should have seen that, my bad.

[cbrick]

Are you casting buckshot or dropping shot? It would matter because to drop round shot arsenic is needed also. For casting buckshot I would hold the Sb to about 9 or 10 percent max, get much more than that and just like bullets it will get more and more brittle the more you add. You mentioned "non-deforming and breaking apart is kinda severe deforming.

Rick

[mroliver77]

"Magnum" shot is 4-5% antimony with some arsenic.

[doubledown]

cbrick,

I am casting .60 cal. balls ( Dixie tri ball load) and 00 and 000 Buck. I don't want brittle for sure, but need to find that happy medium. I just ordered some superhard, as I have a good amount of pure, and it looks like two pounds of superhard to fifteen pounds of pb and I should be pretty good, I will add tin only if needed. I will load some, test and adjust. I just wish I had more luck finding WW's, damn they're scarce around here.

[cbrick]

Scarce? Yep, I've had better luck finding hens teeth than WW lately. I did score another 100 pounds of stick-on weights, that makes 900 pounds of stick-ons now but I'm now down to under 700 pounds of clip-ons which is my main alloy. That's why I did the experimenting with Super Hard and wrote the article referenced in post #3. Its looking more every day like its soon to be SWW, Super Hard and tin for everything except soft HP's & such for me.

If your looking for CWW hardness no more than 3% Sb and for me 2% tin. That's my normal alloy even for rifles to 2000 fps. If you quench these they will harden some because of the Sb but not to the same as WW because of the As in WW, that will help keep the percentage of Sb lower.

Rick

[Bardo]

cbrick, do you know if there is a way to add arsenic to pure lead? I have a lot of pure lead I would like to be able to have the option to heat treat.

[pls1911]

Why go to all the trouble of special alloy and arsenic for buck shot?
Geez, you'll cast a pile the first time which will last you a lifetime.
Use your regular WW mix, and heat treat it... it'll come out 25-30 BHN, which as hard as any alloy and dirt cheap.
I use 30% WW and 70% pure lead (reclaimed roofing material) and still have plenty of tin for good casting and plenty of arsenic for heat treating.
I use it as is for 45 colt and ACP, and .38 spl., and some 45-70.
Heat treated, I use it for full power .30-30 and 45-70 (gas checks on these two) and store bores with a coat of kroil, and never have any leading.
Save your self some expense and headache....heat treat!!

[cbrick]

You can heat treat a Pb/Sb alloy just not to the same as WW. You cannot HT lead, arsenic or not. WW has As AND Sb in it which is why it can be heat treated to the BHN levels that it can. The As isn't why it heat treats, the antimony is why the lead can heat treat. The arsenic acts like a catalyst and will harden the lead well beyond what the level of antimony would suggest. No Sb NO heat treat.

Adding magnum shot should get you some arsenic and some antimony. They have to have it to make round shot, for some reason shot won't drop round without arsenic. It only takes a trace, adding more than 1/2 of one percent As won't get you anything additional, it only needs to be there. However, it would probably take a 50/50 lead/shot blend to get you to about 2.5% Sb. The lower the percentage of Sb the geater the time curve for hardening with about 6% Sb being optimum. WW will age harden normally within 2-3 days at 2-3% Sb. 50 percent magum shot would be pricey, probably cheaper to use Super Hard for the antimony and add some magnum shot for the arsenic.

Even if you could get arsenic to add to your alloy I highly recommend against trying it. At the temps needed to alloy As it sublimes, that is it goes straight from the solid to a gas and this gas could be devastating to you AND anyone else in the area. This is a job for the pro's with the proper equipment. At the percentages in bullet alloy and at the temps we use bullet alloy As poses no real dangers.

Rick

[cbrick]

Use your regular WW mix, and heat treat it... it'll come out 25-30 BHN, which as hard as any alloy and dirt cheap. Save your self some expense and headache ... heat treat!!

pls, you must have missed this from the original poster. :coffeecom


I just wish I had more luck finding WW's, damn they're scarce around here.

Rick

[Matt_G]

Doubledown, have you considered posting in swapping and selling and asking if anyone wants to trade wheel weight metal for pure?
I would think you would get some takers on that...

[Bardo]

cbrick, how much magnum shot would you need to get that "trace" of arsenic? I was thinking if you mixed pure lead and superhard together you are missing the arsenic to heat treat. I have read your article a few times and it has helped me out. I don't know anyone locally the cast lead so I have learned from the internet only. Here is the article I'm referring to http://www.lasc.us/heattreat.htm

Bardo

[cbrick]

Wouldn't take much magnum shot, just need enough to add a trace of arsenic to the alloy. I have read reports of some magnum shot having as much as 1.5% arsenic, dunno why. Perhaps it helps with how round the shot drops but having that much in bullet alloy will not increase the amount the alloy can be heat treated.

Again, arsenic is not why it heat treats, antimony does that. The arsenic just makes the alloy think theres a lot more antimony. Ok, thats a radical over simplification but a trace of As will greatly increase the amount of strengthening that a Pb/Sb alloy can acheive.

Rick

[leadman]

The suggestion to try to swap out your pure is a good one. I have done it here with each member paying their own shipping. The USPS Priority Flat Rate boxes work great, #70 for about $12 to anywhere in the USA.

Might want to see if reclaimed shot is available in your area, this works great for adding to an alloy. Rotometals sells it also but it is a little pricey ffrom them.

We had another sponsor here for awhile from Az that sells it in ingots for about $1.50 a pound. Have to see if I can remember their name.

Found the website for the reclaimed shot ingots. www.mcneeleyenterprises.com. $1.40 a pound plus shipping. Not a bad buy in todays lead world.

[mroliver77]

Even regular shot has arsenic in it. It just has a lower amount of antimony.