WC 872 and the 8mm- wow

[jonk]

I bought some of the surplus 872 cannon powder from Wideners. I had played around with it a bit and took out 15 rounds loaded to the base of the neck with a WLRM primer and 250 gr bullet. WQWW, Felix lube, gas check. S/42 98k.

While I had had ok results with the powder with 170 and 215 grain bullets, this load was interesting not only for accuracy but for what it did to the gun.

I had previously run 15 through with 16.5 gr of surplus SR 4759 with the same bullet. They did ok, nothing great, and caused mild leading- the sort that wipes out with a few passes of a bore brush and some Ed's Red, not the sort that requires Choreboy and hours of cursing. I probably had a little residual cupro-nickel fouling left from a previous shoot with Ecuadorian surplus that I was too lazy to clean out.

So here's the stumper. First 10 rounds, nothing great. Then BAM. Last 5 were in the 10 ring and touching at 100 yards.

Running a wet patch through when I got home, it was the cleanest bore I've ever seen. Not even any carbon fouling, the patch came out totally clean, just the red color from the Ed's Red. No leading, nothing. I didn't even use a bore brush. Taking a strong light to the bore, it appeared cleaned right down to bare metal.

I've never seen anything like this. All I can think is that the slow powder is acting much like COW filler does, cleaning the bore as it goes- and some probably dumping out the muzzle. When the load had cleaned the gun out, that's probably when the group settled in. Can't wait to try this again and see if it works in another gun. Very strange, but I won't argue.

[felix]

No stumper, really. That slow powder acted as a paper patch, if you will. Same should happen with your faster powder with the boolit buffered by a plastic ball filler. ... felix

[JeffinNZ]

I wonder how much of the powder exits unburnt?

[Char-Gar]

WC872 and similar slow burning machine gun powders make wonderful cast bullet powders within limits. I use allot of it and the 8 X 57 case is almost idea for it's use.

There are a couple of neat things about this powder vis a vi faster powders like 2400. This isn't a knock on 2400 as I shoot lots of it.

WC872 continue to burn far down the barrel. Just touch the barrel. After a few rounds you will find it very hot farther down the barrel than loads with faster powders.

Fast powders work great until you hit the pressure range that causes the bullet to start to accordion or rivet. The bullet can tolerate just so much fast spank in it's base before it starts to deform. That is why 2400 is best in loads that produce pressure that give 1.8 K or less fps.

WC872 because it it's long burn does not spank the bullet down the barrel, but shoves it down the barrel with far less chance of distortion. This shows up as accuracy on the target.

WC872 requires light compression for it's best result. So either trickle the powder in from a long drop tube or touch the base of the charged case on something that vibrates to compact the powder. I charge the whole block and set it on top (holding it of course) on top of the case tumbles for a couple of second.

I have found that 40-50 grains of WC872 give optimum performance in most medium capacity cases. This is a full compressed charge in the 308, 30-40 and similar rounds. In the 30-06 I dump in 50 grains and add enough shot shell buffer on top (PSB) to give the needed compression. The amount of buffer varies from .75 to 1.0 CC depending on bullet weight.

Sometimes WC872 will leave unburned powder in the barrel. I don't worry about this, but a magnum primer will help clean this up. A magnum primer may increase or decrease accuracy, you just have to give it a try in your rifle.

I am glad you have discovered the joys of 872. Those of us on this board shot allot of it a few years back when it was much cheaper than it is today. I still have many pounds of it to burn.

When used as above, within it's case capacity and velocity limitations, it produces the best accuracy I have ever found in a powder.

When I want to test cast bullets in the 30-06, I will load 50/WC872 with enough PSB on to for light compress and whatever bullet I want to choose. I did that one day with 5 different cast bullets. All gave great results, the some were a little better than the others. I am convinced that the difference is just the bullet in that rifle. It help me choose which bullet is best suited for an individual rifles.

I can then play with 2400 until the groups with that bullet are the same as the same bullet with WC872 and that is where I stop.

With any cast bullet load, I just run two wet patched (Ed's Red) down the bore, followed by two dry ones and that is barrel cleaning. I do run a patch lightly oiled with Breakfree down the bore for protection. Five round at the range, and the barrel will be in top condition to do it's best work again.

PS.. If you want to see what a good Krag rifle will do, load 50/WC872 under a well fitting 311284. I normally don't discuss particular powder charges on this board, but I know you can't stuff enough WC872 into rifles cases to get into trouble.

PPS.. I consider the 30-30 case to not have enough case capacity to do well with WC872. I have tried it and the results were lousy. I did get decent results with a kicker charge of medium burning stick powder, but it isn't worth that much effort as they are so many really great cast bullet powders for the 30-30 round with 4759,2400 and 4227 being my favorites.

[trooperdan]

Widener's is running a special on WC867 and WC872 for $49 per 8 pound keg. Buy 6 kegs and they is no haz mat fee.

[JeffinNZ]

$49 for 8lb!!!! I pay that for ONE pound on a good day.

Of course 8lb of WC872 is much like a sack of coal.....right?

[SciFiJim]

At gibrass.com it is $40 a jug when you purchase 6 jugs. I have "I wants" real bad on this one. Just have to round up the spare change for a while (hopefully before the deal goes away).

[Char-Gar]

Jim.. It is very good stuff, but requires some special loading techniques to do good work. My post above sets out the basics.

[snuffy]

Chargar, I have several jugs of WC-860 that I got a long time ago from hi-tech. It never did too well for .280 or '06 unless using 175 or 220 grain bullets.

I saw some loads similar to your WC-872 using WC-860. It was years ago, can't remember when or where I saw them. Rings a bell, seems like a similar procedure. Have you had any experience with the 860?

[PAT303]

$49 for 8lb!!!! I pay that for ONE pound on a good day.

Of course 8lb of WC872 is much like a sack of coal.....right?

I know Jeff,we can only dream about such things. Pat

[leadman]

When I use 872 in the 7mm Rem Mag with jacketed eventually I have to use JB compound to get out the hard coating in the bore to restore accuracy. Bruce Hodgdon used Bon-Ami cleanser to do the same thing.

I used 872 in my 40-65 RB with a 400gr boolit and never had this bore coating occur. probably did not burn as hot as the 7mag.

[Char-Gar]

no experience with 860

[nanuk]

does NOE have one of these that hits 250gr?