bevel based bullets?

[rogn]

There seems to be a lot of fear of gas cutting or other infirmities associated with bevel based bullets. Can anyone explain this? It doesnt make any sense.

[1Shirt]

To me, they are easy to load, probably will allow gas cutting if driven to fast, but if you drive them at reasonable vols,(1000 or less in revolvers/1600 or less in rifle), I find them accurate, and have no problem.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[Recluse]

Bullets are components within the reloading process. Nothing more, nothing less.

Smart, experienced loaders tailor their loads to the characteristics to the projectile since that is what (ultimately) travels down the barrel and either punches a hole in a paper target, knocks over a steel plate, brings down a deer or wild pig, or stops an attacker from harming/killing you.

I like and use bevel base bullets of both the cast and jacketed variety, but I also load accordingly--especially with cast. As such, I've achieved stellar, consistent accuracy with no leading--which means no gas-cutting.

My favorite two handgun boolits are both from Lee, the TL158SWC and the .452 200SWC. Both have slight bevel bases. I lube and load appropriately for both.

The TL158SWC, however, has a lot of bearing surface and combined with the (tumble) lube I use, I can--and do--push this boolit to .357 Magnum velocities with no leading.

The 200SWC has less bearing surface than do more traditional SWC designs in that caliber, so I do not push this boolit. The result is that I have an excellent shooting projectile within its capabilities range.

:coffee:

[mooman76]

The thinking is because there is the bevel it allows more gas pressure to get by because of the bevel area that exposes more area to heat and lets that pressure by when pushed too hard or harder than a normal flat plain based bullet will. Same goes for gas checked bullets without the gas check so it is thought you just can't push them as hard. At least that's my understanding.

[bobthenailer]

I have perhaps 5 bullet designes or more with BB and regulary shoot 3 other bullets without the gas check installed with excellent accuracy and min leading in every case.

[badbob454]

i shoot un gas checked boolits and bb boolits up to 1600fps , after that poor accuracy.. shoot and draw your own conclusions . thats how you learn , (school of hard knocks )graduate

[Bass Ackward]

People will rationalize problems with a flat base design. Bullet is good / bad, over / under lubed, center of balance is too this or that, etc.

Comes to a bevel and it is automatically this or that.

Yet cut that bevel off and mysteriously a superior design is created? I guess that is why it is impossible to shoot a PB at magnum handgun velocities unless it has a GC too huh?

Gas cutting happens because people don't match their "lube and hardness combinations to the "rate" of pressure mostly on the low side. (they don't seal fast enough) On the high side it is galling.

The real problem is that they didn't size properly to overcome that shortfall. "Fit is King"!!!

In other words, with what this board has proven to themselves, gas cutting is grossly over stated and is by a very vast percentage operator error when it occurs. It is NOT related to bullet / base design or metallic composition.

[KYCaster]

Once again Bass Ackward tells it like it is. :drinks:

You guys that say the BB is more likely to result in gas cutting, can you tell me exactly why that is so?

It seems to me that as the powder is burning and the boolit is just starting to move, the pressure should be equal at every point in the chamber, regardless of the shape of the boolit's base.

Also, if the case expands enough to release the boolit then I would think that the boolit is completely surrounded by the hot gasses before it is able to fully engage the rifling. So the first thing to engage the rifling and make an effective seal is the boolit's shoulder, regardless of the shape of the base. At that point the sides of the boolit are still exposed to the hot gasses, so I don't see how the shape of the base can have any effect on sealing the bore.

And one more thing...regardless of the shape of the base (assuming the boolit fits correctly) there is a point where the base of the boolit meets the barrel with the bearing surface in complete contact with the barrel producing an effective seal from shoulder to base. How can it possibly make any difference whether the base is flat or beveled? Even if a BB causes higher pressure at that junction (I don't see how that's possible), how can that affect the seal that's already made by the bearing surface?

Just wondering....
Jerry

[rogn]

Makes sense to me. Thanks

[lwknight]

I have never been able to tell a difference in BB or FB except for being easier to start into the brass. Like Ky basically said , " If it fits then it fits and if it don't then it won't"

[63 Shiloh]

[QUOTE=Recluse;1315358The TL158SWC, however, has a lot of bearing surface and combined with the (tumble) lube I use, I can--and do--push this boolit to .357 Magnum velocities with no leading.

:coffee:[/QUOTE]

OK Recluse, you have my attention mate!

I have this mold in the TL and GG designs, I have only loaded it in .38 Spec cases and modest charge in my Smith 6" 686.

Would you be kind enough to post the load data you are using for this boolit in the .357 mag?

Will the GG design also shoot mag velocity with no leading? What lube would you recommend for this boolit?

I have email Johnson& Johnson here in Australia about the JPW, it has been discontinued. I have had no luck in finding some so far. So I cannot use your TL lube yet.


Mike

[357shooter]

OK Recluse, you have my attention mate!

I have this mold in the TL and GG designs, I have only loaded it in .38 Spec cases and modest charge in my Smith 6" 686.

Would you be kind enough to post the load data you are using for this boolit in the .357 mag?

Will the GG design also shoot mag velocity with no leading? What lube would you recommend for this boolit?

I have email Johnson& Johnson here in Australia about the JPW, it has been discontinued. I have had no luck in finding some so far. So I cannot use your TL lube yet.


Mike
In 357 mag cases, OAL of 1.60, the TL358-158-SWC gets great results with 15.5 grains of H110, in my guns. For a nice target load, 3.5 grains of 700X or HP-38 are hard to beat. Sorry that I'm not Recluse, but I'm sure he'll jump in with his loads too. Who can resist a quick discussion about 357 mag loads.

Sorry to highjack the BB discussion.

[casterofboolits]

In the mid 80's I was casting H&G 68's 45-200-SWCBB and a 45-200-RNPB for IPSC shooters. The RN's were for shooters that had trouble with SWC's feeding in thier 1911's.

A friend tested these boolits with A Ransom Rest and a Chrony. Both boolits tested the same for accuracy, but the plain based boolit consistantly clocked 20 to 30 FPS more than the bevel based boolits.

I also am of the opinion that if the boolit fits the bore, there will be no gas cutting.

[singleshot]

It actually makes sense that a flat-based boolit would be a little faster...with the same OAL b/c there's more lead in the case and less space, creating slightly higher pressure. I would expect the boolit with slightly higher pressure to travel a little faster. You could calculate the difference in volume and seat the bevel-based boolits a little deeper and retest.

You can take any given charge and change the OAL by .01 up or down and see a difference in velocity, it's more noticable in the larger calibers with straight walls...like 45 ACP.

It's kinda like the difference between dished and flat pistons on your car engine, a small change in volume of the piston can have a significant effect on compression ratio.

[Cherokee]

I have the convention lube groove Lee 358156FN bullet and shoot it in my 686 with exceptional results for me. 160 gr cast from ACWW, sized .358 and lubed with Lar's CR. I use HS6 @ 7.5 for mid-range to 9.0 gr for high end. BTW, the 9.0 loads shoots the X out at 25 yds. I'm going to use 8.5 gr for general use. Always work the load up in your gun. YMMV

[44man]

Gas cutting is not a worry, never seen any with a proper fitting boolit.
The only problem I have had was accuracy with those I have.
Many do shoot fine but I feel I had a mismatch of drive length for what I wanted to do. By removing the BB (Not cutting down the mold top.) I increased accuracy with my boolits.
It was percentage of drive to boolit length I was interested in.
This is what the change was at 50 yards. I called the low shot, my fault.

[44man]

This old computer froze again and I lost the picture. But it is just like leaving a GC off. Some shoot but some can tumble and go through paper sideways at 50 yards.
I have yet to make a boolit worse by removing the BB.

[XWrench3]

my first experience with bevel base boolits was store bought dardas for my 44 magnum. like any other bullet, or boolit, i started off slow and worked my way up. other than being easier to load, and easier on the brass (much less mouth flaring required) i see no diference between these, and flat based boolits of the same hardness and fit. in fact, on some of my other cast boolits, i have started "bevel basing" some of them prior to loading. i am using a modified case chamfering tool to cut the bottom edge of the boolit. it works dandy. time consuming, but it is a lot cheaper than buying a new mold.

[lwknight]

Bevel based bullets seem to cast easier than FB probably because there are no 90 degree corners to fill at the base. BB are harder to deal with in a lube-sizer though.

[Bass Ackward]

When people understand that the disadvantage of lead in today's firearms is strength to hold the rifling that is there, both during start up and launch, then it becomes clearer to see the disadvantage of the bevel.

The disadvantage increases with the lighter for the caliber bullet you choose, the larger the bore diameter you operate, and the wider the meplat you want to launch into the wind.

But for the man who doesn't need bench rest accuracy for his handgun purposes it has many advantages too.

[1Shirt]

Ya Bass, you da man!
1Shirt!:coffeecom