9mm Help

[Punisher422]

I decided to start casting for my Kel-Tec PF-9 so I could afford to practice with it. I cast around one hundred Lee 125 grain boolits that turned out nicely. I went to load my first rounds and everything was going great until I broke down the gun and dropped a round into the chamber (Heard about that on a thread here). The round would not go down as far as it should have (compared to Remington HD 124 gr. HP). After some investigating I found that the boolit was apparently too wide halfway down the exposed boolit and was hitting the end of the chamber and not letting the brass go in as far as it should. I checked the width and the factory ammo is .354 halfway down as opposed to my boolit which was .357. Has anyone had this happen before? What are some possible solutions? This is my only 9mm and I would like to practice more instead of waiting to buy a new 9mm. I didn't see this problem surface in any of the 9mm threads I read and really appreciate the input.

[biker_trash_1340]

Not sure it this is your problem, but it could be your cases. I use mixed brass and some are thicker then others. When i seat the boolits they will bulge out to the point that they will not chamber. With me it was just one type, so I went through them and gave them to a friend.

[runfiverun]

could be the brass, the lee t/l usually needs to be seated deeper with a corresponding cut in the powder volumn also.
it also seems to shoot better and not lead at the lower end.
remember you are making boolits the factory don't, for a gun they don't got, from lead that they don't use either.
and a different powder and case and primer.

[Blammer]

try seating the projectile a tad deeper and see if that clears it up.

if not it sounds like your brass needs to be sized farther down the case. To do that seat the resizing die deeper in the press.

I hope you didn't make a lot of ammo before you discovered this.

[garym1a2]

try .356 sizer.

[MtGun44]

Each maker sets up a throat that they choose. You will likely need to switch to a
truncated cone, which has much less full diameter boolit portion outside of the
case. You might get away with a bit deeper seating, but this is a balance between
chambering and feeding properly.

Beware of just sizing smaller. It may work, but if you go too small (you should be at
groove diameter +.001, typically) you will get leading and/or inaccuracy.

9mm is a difficult caliber sometimes due to huge variations in brass, groove
diameters, rifling depth and throating. It is also a fairly high pressure cartridge,
and many have spent quite a bit of time getting a load that they like.

I use the Lee 356 120 TC sized to .357 or .358 and a full power load of a
Vectan powder rarely seen in the US. This is accurate and works in many different
9mms. HOWEVER - my PF9 produces excessive pressure (primers extruded and
sheared into the firing pin hole) with a load which is fine in multiple other 9mm
pistols. I have not yet solved this issue - although the load is accurate and does
not lead the barrel.

Bill

[runfiverun]

i use 358 sized 125 gr rnfp's designed for the 38 special cowboy shooting game.
they work better than the two 9mm molds i have.
but thats my tokarevs
the taurus pt-99 won't shoot anything but 158 swcs over a tiny bit of unique. and that includes jaxketed.

[noylj]

Before you ever start to load live rounds with a given bullet, make up a couple of inert "dummy" rounds to set-up the dies and verify that your rounds fit your magazine and feed and chamber in your gun. I would expect every manual to reference this practice.
Your 0.357" diameter is NOT the problem and you do not need to size those bullets smaller. I use as-cast bullets and a given batch may be 0.356, 0.357, or 0.358" in diameter. All chamber just fine in all my 9x19s, including P-08s and P-38s.
Your problem is the COL.
I shoot almost strictly cast SWCs in all calibers. A given RN can have the ogive hit the lede/leade/end-of-throat (start of rifling) very early and thus it needs to be seated somewhat deeper than your eyeball might indicate--and deeper than my SWCs.
Take the barrel out of your gun. This is your case gage and should be at your loading station when you are setting up for a new bullet.
Mark the bullet ogive (the round nose area), with a magic marker of crayon or grease pencil, all the way down and slightly beyond the case mouth. When you drop this round in, twist it right and left a couple of times. When you remove the round, if the scratches are on the bullet then you need to seat the bullet deeper. If the scratches are at the case mouth, you need to remove more flare/belling.
If you have a bulge on one side of the case, you need a larger expander plug to bring the case ID (in the area where the bullet will be seated) up to 0.001-0.002" under bullet diameter. You could be trying to push a 0.357" bullet into a case with an ID of 0.353", causing the bullet to swage down and the case to bulge where the wall is the thinnest. This bulge can also interfere with chambering.
It is easy to make up a couple of dummy rounds and progressively seat the bullet deeper until it fully chambers. If you have too much crimp, you can remove any scrapped-off lead using your fingernail or a knife or other sharp object so it doesn't interfere with the round chambering. After everything is set and you have cycled the inert rounds through your gun to verify function and lack of bullet setback, you then label the rounds so you can go back to them if you need to set-up for that bullet at some later time.

[lwknight]

Everyone always jumps on the brass wagon but its not always the case.

I drop a bullet into the barrel then measure to the base and do some math to figure out exactly what the maximum length could be.

I have a AT C92 that slugs .356 and a .357 bullet will not chamber without seating the bullet to about 1.090 OAL. It actually puts marks on the bullet if I try to chamber a round.
For me thats a problem because of the tiny case capacity of the 9mm.

Conversely, I have a Ruger P95 that will chamber anything even close to right and the barrel slugs .3545 so a .356 bullet works perfect at maximum magazine length of 1.160.

The problem with my C92 is that the forcing cone is too square like a typical S&W . Ruger forcing cones are a bit more tapered and will be a lot more forgiving about the bullet size and shape.

So if you determine that the forcing cone is the problem , you could polich off a couple thousandths at the opening to a slight taper and make it work. I intend to do that with my C92.

My 5906 S&W slugs at .353 and a .3555 bulet will not even think about chambering ( the brass will not fit) so I guess it will live out its life as a HD or SD carry gun only loaded with bore riders like the Golden Sabers.

[GabbyM]

.357" bullet probably is to large for your throat. That said an COL of around 1.040" should chamber with the .357" diameter short of the throat. Just whatever it takes. I don't shoot the Lee TC but rather the Saeco but it will be close. If you go much under 1.040" you'll need to reduce your load.

You’ll probably want a Lyman M die to use with a TC bullet as most standard expanders do not reach deep enough into the case to take the TC bullets without swaging them down. It’s something to check for. You could try backing up your size die but that's trickey and you'd need all the same brand cases.

[MtGun44]

No problem with TC Lee boolit and normal die set expanding it. No special magic
needed, just normal good reloading practices.

Bill

[Cherokee]

"too wide halfway down the exposed boolit and was hitting the end of the chamber "
Sounds like you need to seat the bullet deeper. Make sure you taper crimp just enough to remove the flare put on the case mouth for seating the bullet.

[Punisher422]

I thought of seating the boolit deeper and did so when I discovered the problem. The problem was that it didn't help at all. I seated the boolit in a dummy round further and further down to see if it would ever chamber and it didn't chamber correctly even when the boolit was seated WAY lower than my recipe calls for. I also thought of the brass and measured the outside of the brass after seating the boolit and the outside measured just .0005 wider, so I did not believe that this was the problem. I will try the crayon thing and see how that turns out. Bad comes to worse I guess I'll have an excuse to buy a new TC mold........

[mikeg1005]

Are you refering to the Lee 125gr LRN mold?

I cast for my M&P with this mold... I have found that I need to seat the bullets to 1.065" to have them not run into the lands... decrease powder accordingly and I have a bullet that functions 100% of the time... The OAL seems to be common for certain 125gr LRN according to my reloading manuals.

MIke.

[Punisher422]

Yes, the Lee 125 gr. mold. I'll try seating a dummy round to 1.065 later as well. I'm trying to remember what the minimum OAL the Lee recipe I was using called for, but I don't have it with me at work.

[MtGun44]

Recipe LOA is essentially meaningless except as a guide as to combustion chamber
volume used for the data. If you are seating deeper, reduce the charge a bit due to
smaller combustion chamber. LOA is defined by YOUR gun, not some book value.
You are making custom ammuntion to fit your gun, so make it fit. This may require
a different boolit design, too - but your gun is the definition of your ammunition, so
you must work to that chamber and throat that you are given.

Bill

[Punisher422]

I finally got a day to where I can sit down and troubleshoot at my bench. The brass has no problem at all fitting correctly. I continued to seat the boolit little by little and my dummy round will chamber at 1.100". The recipe on my Lee instructions calls for 1.15". I will be using the Red Dot or Unique recipe (or both). How much do I need to cut back the powder charge to offset seating it .05" deeper?

By the way, thanks for all the suggestions. I knew starting 9mm would probably give me a hiccup or two, but it would be a lot harder without your knowledge on tap. I'm glad I started on .44 mag before this, it went a lot easier at the beginning.

[MtGun44]

Figure out approximately what percentage of the depth of the combustion chamber
you are eliminating and reduce the charge by about that percentage. This is just a
guess, but gives some sort of a rational method.

So, if the distance from the base of a boolit to the inside base of the brass is .500
in the book case, and you reduced it by .050, this would be 10% less volume so
how about 10% less powder? Actually, I'd probably be conservative and use 15% less
in that case. You can always add more later. Of course, you are going to start at
the starting level and work up, right?

You'll have to measure the depth of your brass, then how much boolit is in at the
normal LOA and subtract.

Bill

[NHlever]

Some 9mm cases have more internal taper than others, and won't allow boolits to be seated very deeply without bulging the case.Perhaps that is what was happening to you.