Bass Pro Shops Shooting Range Unfriendly to Reloaders!

[MikeS]

Hi All.

In my search for a new indoor shooting range, I went to Bass Pro Shops today. Wow, was that a big mistake! I have never seen a more shooter unfriendly range than this one. First thing, when you go thru the doors, they have to inspect your guns, & your ammo. Then they install trigger locks on your guns, and rubber stamp your ammo boxes (no reloads are allowed, but I guess because I repackaged my reloads into factory boxes they were OK), then you're sent on to the range upstairs. Once there, the RO unlocks your guns, once again inspects your ammo (and he didn't catch my reloads either). I brought my own targets, but was told that to use them I would have to fold under the head portion of the target, along with the arm portions, as it was against corp. policy to allow shooting at targets that resemble a man! Ok, so I finally get into the range proper, and they must have had their ventilation off, as it was about as hot IN the range as it was outside, sort of negating the purpose of going to an indoor range. Then they have these really nice target carriers, you type in the distance in feet you want, and when you push the * button the target goes there! That was nice, except that once I got my second target out there, I couldn't get it back!

I took only 2 guns with me, my PT1911, and my Ruger Old Army with a 45LC conversion cylinder. Well, for some reason the last shot out of the first clip of ammo out of my 1911 got stuck in the throat of the barrel (I guess I screwed up, and forgot to charge that case), but as reloads weren't allowed, I didn't want to mess with the gun much under the scrutiny of the RO (I later found out he wasn't watching me, but rather the TV), so I just put the gun away, and moved on to the ROA. In that I was shooting 'factory' reloads by a company called Apogee, and they worked fine. The conversion cylinder shoots really nice too!

Anyway, when leaving, once again the PO checks the guns (checked to see if it was loaded, and never noticed a boolit sitting in the throat of the barrel!), and put their trigger locks on them, to be removed by the guy at the front door. I guess they didn't want me to shop while I was carrying dangerous handguns with me, as to get the locks removed you have to exit thru the entrance rather than the exit, so that made shopping impossible. Not that I was going to shop anyway, their corp. policies made me want to run away from their store and never go back! Of course I will go back, as I buy my powder there, it's once of the few stores around here that even sells powder, the other being a small gun shop that's just as far with a much smaller selection of powder, they have Unique, and Unique, and also Unique!

So my search for a good indoor range continues. As for outdoor ranges, there are 2, one is a private club, $100.00 to join, then $20.00 each time you want to shoot, & you have to be active in the club, either do work to help the range, or give them yet another $100.00 per year. Or the county range, where you can't do any rapid fire, must space out your shots at least 1 second apart, and basically more restrictive than even Bass!

The more I look for a shooting range, the more I wish I still lived in TN! Heck, I might have to move back there just to be able to shoot!

[warf73]

Bass Pro Shop is a nation wide company that is just covering there arses with all there rules. As for the locked trigger guards thats makes perfect sence to me. The marked ammo boxes also makes sence.

As for the
you can't do any rapid fire, must space out your shots at least 1 second apart Every range I've been to around here may it be indoor or outdoor they have the same rule.

[MikeS]

In thinking about it, marking the ammo boxes does make some sense, as they sell ammo, and you have to walk very close to where they sell their ammo, by marking your ammo at the door, it is sure that it's yours, and you didn't pickup a box of ammo as you went to the range.

As to the gun locks, I see no reason for them at all. I mean, what is to stop me from walking right back in with my gun fully loaded, and start shooting people, as that's the message I get from them "we don't trust you to walk thru our store with your gun unless WE lock it" Well, I'm sorry, if somebody can't trust me in their store with my cased guns, then they don't want my money either.

There are plenty of other gun ranges that are attached to stores, and none of them try to lock your guns as you enter, only to unlock them right before you enter the range proper.

I don't know, maybe I just have strange thoughts on this. I also refuse to fly on a commercial airliner for a similar reason, I'm not going to pay all sorts of money to be treated like a criminal, which is just how I've been treated the last couple of times I've flown (a few years ago now).

[Finster101]

There are two indoor ranges near me. You can not use reloads in them.

[btroj]

Sometimes you have to decide that if you want to shoot then you pay the price and follow the rules.
I belong to a club that doesn't allow any class 3 weapons and no 50 Brownings. People complained about no silencers or full auto but the club stood firm. We have have rounds escape the range and the club takes it very seriously. If people don't like it they don't have to belong.
The county range not allowing rapid fire may be due to rounds not impacting the berm in the past. This sounds like the results of a few idiots who didn't know what they were doing. It only takes one round impacting the wrong place to shut down the entire operation.
Unless you shoot on your own land then someone else owns the place. That means they can make the rules. I just suck it up and pay the price and follow the rules. It is that or don't shoot so it really isn't a difficult choice.

[garym1a2]

That's what nice about a little property in the country. You shoot into your dirt hill whatever you want and whenever you want.

[treadhead1952]

Hi All,

Yeah, the local Bass Pro Shooting Range got two visits from me. The first was a freebie, they give you range time when you purchase a handgun from them. The second was to meet up with a buddy who purchased a handgun from them and wanted me to show him a few pointers. The first time I went in I brought the revolver I had purchased, my S&W Model 19, my Rossi Model 85 and my Navy model .36 all in my range box. It seemed that I used up the remaining locks that they had with my choices. They didn't even look at the ammo I brought when I checked in, everything was in MTM boxes and the lady was busy at the time. The RO was also busy and just unlocked everything, had me sign the paperwork and let me wander in.

They only had the short ranges available, 15 yards. I had fun until I got to the .36 Navy, their ventilation system didn't work too well and I soon had the place smoked out. Oh well.

The second visit I made, well, knowing their lock situation, I brought 7 handguns with me, they had to let one go unlocked, the lady put a zip tie through the cylinder so it wouldn't be offensive. When I got to the range the RO checked my ammo but was only looking for metal jacketed ammo, as long as it was lead it was okay.

I did make one more try but upon arrival was told that they had to close their range, the backwall got shot out! So we no longer have any indoor range facilities at the local Bass Pro....:violin:

[Jim]

My guess, concerning the "no reloads" ruling, is that, if a reload caused a firearm to frag, that it could injure someone and Bass Pro would be liable. Doesn't make much sense to me, though. Would they not be liable if a shooter went postal and started shooting people in the range and the store? Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to me that any place there are loaded firearms present, there are risks to be considered.

Thank you, Lord, for my little bit of privacy in the country and my own range.

[Freightman]

Sometimes you have to decide that if you want to shoot then you pay the price and follow the rules.
I belong to a club that doesn't allow any class 3 weapons and no 50 Brownings. People complained about no silencers or full auto but the club stood firm. We have have rounds escape the range and the club takes it very seriously. If people don't like it they don't have to belong.
The county range not allowing rapid fire may be due to rounds not impacting the berm in the past. This sounds like the results of a few idiots who didn't know what they were doing. It only takes one round impacting the wrong place to shut down the entire operation.
Unless you shoot on your own land then someone else owns the place. That means they can make the rules. I just suck it up and pay the price and follow the rules. It is that or don't shoot so it really isn't a difficult choice.
No 50 BMG's, No free standing with a rifle from bench only, no areal shotgunning, as you can see a church steeple from the benches, all are rules to keep the range open. It has never been proved that a round got out of the range, but one day I was out there with my little HiPoint 9mm carbine when police rushed in and blocked the gate and inspected all 9mm as a house that was 13/4 miles from the range had been hit with three 9mm's FMJ's. Tried to explain that all my ammo was cast to no avail. Three days latter they showed up at the house with a warrant for my carbine , to make a long story short it was sent to a ballistics lab and cked to see if it fired the rounds, took three months to get it back. We then had a contractor who is a member build a 30' high berm along the property line 1/2 mile long and now we can't see the church or the road and you can't see into the range.
Drastic measures but the range has been there since 1948 long before any houses but it built up in the late 80's and houses will take presidents over the range regardless of who was there first. So rules no matter how silly they seem are necessary.

[oldtoolsniper]

I don't shop at Bass Pro for anything anymore. I do not care for being treated as though I am an nuisance when I am supposed to be a customer.

On a side note, talk to the owner of that small gun-shop. If he has one type of powder he can get others. I order from a small shop and what he does not carry he will add to his monthly order for me as long as I pay for it once he has it. Those little shops have a lot of money just sitting on the shelves and it's money out of their wallets in most cases.

[white eagle]

As to the gun locks, I see no reason for them at all. I mean, what is to stop me from walking right back in with my gun fully loaded, and start shooting people, as that's the message I get from them "we don't trust you to walk thru our store with your gun unless WE lock it" Well, I'm sorry, if somebody can't trust me in their store with my cased guns, then they don't want my money either.
I would say prison time and the risk of being shot yerslf
probably why these rules are in place in the first place :holysheep

[Spector]

Bass Pro personel knew I was carrying concealed on my first trip there in southern Indiana as I told them I was. There was a sign that said they needed to check guns. Their place....their rules. They explained that was not for concealed carry weapons, just guns carried in for other purposes. They did not ask to see my Indiana personal protection permit.

I can live with their policies I have encountered so far. If, or when, I can't then I will no longer shop there. The same policy I apply to every business I frequent.........Mike

[Cherokee]

My local indoor range allows reloads and they are good folks. Their factory ammo prices are really low too, and have rental guns. My outdoor club range has reasonable rules.

[prs]

I am fortunate to have a private range. Occasionally guests are allowed to shoot, but the follow my rules or hit the road. If I shoot a store's range, I will follow the rules. No offense intended, but since the OP had a squib, I believe he proved that the no reload policy is valid.

prs

[seaboss]

Mike,

Have you tried Weston Arms on State Road 84?

[gray wolf]

I myself hate rules but I go along with them. It seems every time I am around
people I am reminded why we have them. I think our society would run a muck without them.
If I think a place is being just plain silly then I go someplace else. But like they say.
" it's my football so we play by my rules "

[geargnasher]

Very well said, GW.

There's a thing called a "social contract", where individuals trade freedom for security. It's the most basic concept of civilization. It has to be balanced, though, or the agreed-upon contract becomes forced tyranny and oppression.

Don't confuse the freedom of a corporation (or individual, for that matter) to make policy as it sees fit with the invasion of rights.

I think Bass Pro's policy sucks as well, but if it was my only option I'd weigh it carefully. I don't boycott them, I simply find alternatives to their range and policies. They offer it as a priviledge, if you don't like it find an alternative. You have to understand that part of making a range safe is to discourage those most likely to get it shut down. If Bass Pro is going to offer the indoor range facility to the public, what sort of people would be the safest to use it? I'm betting that they figured out that people willing and able to abide amicably a long list of ridiculous rules, procedures, and policies so they can pop a few caps will be the most conformal, safe, trustworthy folks to populate a shooting range. Kinda weeds out the loose cannons. I'd a helluva lot rather share a bench with a calm, conformal fellow than a Mall Ninja SWAT Wannabe who thinks he can rapid-fire two pistols at once. Not saying you are, but people that are sensitive to conformity are statistically the most dangerous, and that's the perspective that range operators must have. That's how corporate policy pans out. It's a free country still, for the most part.

I just checked with one of my local public ranges (of which I'm a paying member) regarding some policies, and the owner said that he'd be glad to set up a private, supervised time slot for me to do some sitting, standing, and prone shooting on the rifle ranges, but that indeed those positions are not permitted on the open firing line. Sounds kinda stupid maybe, but he pointed out the numerous considerations for why it's "bench only" for rifle. He also explained that, though he trusts me implicitely, he's got to offer the same priveledge for everyone, including those that really need a babysitter.

We had a range shut down here some years ago because an errant rifle bullet traveled more than two miles across town and killed a 'dozer operator at the landfill while he was on his machine. Bass Pro's policies aren't designed to stop psychopaths, they're designed to prevent accidents and generate revenue.

Gear

[leadman]

A few years ago we had a guy shoot a 45-70 over the mountain at the public range here and the bullet hit a trailer in a park quite a ways from the range. The angle of elevation to get over the mountain would be pretty severe.
Don't know why this happened, luckily they were able to track it back to his shooting position.

fortunately there are quite a few places to shoot here in AZ.

[MikeS]

Mike,

Have you tried Weston Arms on State Road 84?

Yes. Alfie (the owner) used to be good friends with my father. He used to come over to the house (he lives down the block from us) for hours talking to my father & me, and my father drew much of his advertisements) I shot there until one time when I went there, and when he found out that I was shooting lead he freaked out. While he has no signs saying so, he doesn't want lead shot at his range, as he claims it messes up his hepa filters, and that he has the cleanest range in the county. While he can be the nicest guy around sometimes, he's also a bit on the strange side. When my father died a few years ago, a friend of mine & my father's from NY bought the majority of my father's collection (which by the time he had died had shrunk to about 80 handguns, and 30 rifles) which is what my father had wanted to happen (for years he used to say "Andy, when I die, you'll buy my collection, and treat my wife right") and when I went to Alfie to ship the collection up to my friend, rather than being helpful, he told us that it would be $35.00 per handgun to ship them to NY. So I found another dealer (that I never knew existed) up in Margate (Aries Gun Shop), and she charged $25.00 for the first one, and $5.00 each for the rest of the collection! Another example of his (Alfie's) strangeness was when I went into his store one day, and he asked me casually if I was carrying, to which I replied that I was, and he got all upset, told me to go put it in the car, as his insurance doesn't let loaded guns in his shop, etc. Now I can understand not wanting some unknown jamok to come into his store carrying, but I had at the time thought Alfie was a friend. To contrast that when I went into Barbara's store (Aries) one day she watched me putting my gun into the saddlebag of my bike, and when I went into the store she asked me why I put it there, and I told her that it was because she didn't allow loaded guns in her store, and she said that was only for folks she didn't know, and that it was fine if I carried in her store (this was on maybe the 3rd visit to her store) as she knows me. BTW, just so people don't think I always break rules (I do tend to bend some), I normally follow rules of any shops I go into, I thought Alfie was a friend, so it wouldn't matter that I was carrying in his store. My father always carried, and even took out his carry gun to show it to Alfie on several occasions. Alfie knows that both my father and I were NRA certified Rifle/Pistol/Shotgun instructors (mine lapsed while I was living in TN, I forgot to renew it!), and knew that when it comes to safety, I'm the one that showed more safety than my father did. I think Alfie was just upset that we (my mother and I) didn't give him a chance to buy my father's collection, but it was always very clear who was going to get the collection, and I think my father even told Alfie that. Oh well. Next I'm going to try American Gun Range in Hallendale, and Big Al's Shooting Range.

[nicholst55]

Here's my take on the 'no rapid-fire' rule. One of the (very) few places to shoot a rifle anywhere near where I live in Maryland is a state-run range at Elk Neck State Forest. The range is totally unsupervised except immediately before deer season, when all the once-a-year shooters take their rifles out to zero for hunting. During the other 50 weeks of the year, you're totally on your own.

I have witnessed this several times; a group of people will arrive, typically with AK-47s. They attach a target, frequently to one of the sound baffles (you must bring your own target stand), at about 25 yards, and begin firing at it. It goes something like this:

Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbang! Until the mag is empty. The target may have 2-3 holes in it; the sound baffle a few more. The rest of the 30 (or 40) round mag? Who knows where those bullets went.

Now, I'm NOT hating on AKs in particular or military-style gas guns in general; I own several myself, and enjoy them tremendously. I do object to unsafe firearms handling and disrespect for, and vandalism of, property - especially property that my (too bloody high) taxes paid for. This range is frequently shut down because the sound baffles are falling apart due to bullet damage and no funds to repair/replace them. These people are the reason why.

And yes, I do voice my objections to these people. They typically tell me to f**k off.

[MikeS]

... I'm betting that they figured out that people willing and able to abide amicably a long list of ridiculous rules, procedures, and policies so they can pop a few caps will be the most conformal, safe, trustworthy folks to populate a shooting range. ...

Gear

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with that statement. While it can be true in some instances, it's not true to all. I would much rather shoot next to somebody that shoots IPSEC, and wants to practice his shooting, and rapid fire abilities, than some accountant that just bought his first gun downstairs, and is trying to figure out which end the cartridges go into! Yes, there are a lot of yahoos out there that wanna play gunfighter, and are just plain dangerous! But just wanting to shoot more than 1 shot per second doesn't make a person dangerous, and unsafe. When it comes to safety, I'm right up there with the best of them, but I see no difference in safety between guns that are stored unloaded in a case, and the same unloaded guns in a case with somebody else's locks on them! One of the guys that put the locks on said it was so other customers wouldn't be upset by seeing guns in the store, what, do their customers have X-ray vision? The guns were secure in a closed case. Heck, the guy at the door who was checking my guns couldn't figure out how to open the action of my Ruger Old Army, so he picked it up, and looked directly down the barrel! Another policy that Bass has that I think is really stupid is the targets they don't allow. I brought along a couple of targets that are the typical torso / upper body outline that includes the head, and arms, and was told that I would have to fold under the head and arms! So instead I bought 3 targets from them, which were identical to the ones I had brought, but smaller, maybe 10x16 or whatever that size target is. I could almost understand not allowing shooting at targets that are likenesses of real people (like the ones sold that are of Osama Bin Ladin, etc.) or even the one that's a guy crouching, and pointing a gun at you, but a silhouette? The only rule of theirs that I didn't follow was the reload policy, as I figured that was done by their lawyers, just like every gun made says not to use reloads.

And for anyone that's going to jump on me for complaining about their policies, complaining here about a policy is much different than just flat out not following them.

[Love Life]

In thinking about it, marking the ammo boxes does make some sense, as they sell ammo, and you have to walk very close to where they sell their ammo, by marking your ammo at the door, it is sure that it's yours, and you didn't pickup a box of ammo as you went to the range.

As to the gun locks, I see no reason for them at all. I mean, what is to stop me from walking right back in with my gun fully loaded, and start shooting people, as that's the message I get from them "we don't trust you to walk thru our store with your gun unless WE lock it" Well, I'm sorry, if somebody can't trust me in their store with my cased guns, then they don't want my money either.

There are plenty of other gun ranges that are attached to stores, and none of them try to lock your guns as you enter, only to unlock them right before you enter the range proper.

I don't know, maybe I just have strange thoughts on this. I also refuse to fly on a commercial airliner for a similar reason, I'm not going to pay all sorts of money to be treated like a criminal, which is just how I've been treated the last couple of times I've flown (a few years ago now).

Deal with it or shoot somewhere else. It's not an infrigement on your freedoms. You either abide by the rules or take you business and guns elsewhere. That's about it. I wouldn't want to shoot next to somebody who stuck a boolit or bullet in the bore due to lax reloading procedures. Thank god you caught the squib before you shot another round. This is not a chicken little reaction, but it is people who fail to QC their reloaded ammunition that cause all the problems in the first place.

[JIMinPHX]

Sometimes I forget how lucky we are here in AZ. I can shoot anything I want within a 35 minute drive of the house.

[Love Life]

Sometimes I forget how lucky we are here in AZ. I can shoot anything I want within a 35 minute drive of the house.

It's the same way in Mono County, Ca and across the border in Nevada. I thank God every day I wake up and head to the range and shoot whatever I want.

[MikeS]

I don't know where all this mention of freedom came from. I never claimed that they were violating my freedom, just complaining about their policies. And for those implying that getting a squib load is due to lax reloading practices, I would love to meet a reloader than NEVER loaded a round without making a mistake in powder load! I'm sorry, no matter how careful one is, eventually a mistake is going to be made, it's how the mistake is handled that separates the safe reloaders from the reckless ones.

[JIMinPHX]

And for those implying that getting a squib load is due to lax reloading practices, I would love to meet a reloader than NEVER loaded a round without making a mistake in powder load!

I've been reloading for more than 20 years. I used to shoot about 400 rounds per week when I was trying to develop proficiency. I've loaded a lot of cartridges over the years. Before I cast my own, I used to buy Carrol bullets in boxes of 500. At one point in time, my pile of empty Carrol boxes was over 6 feet high. I have yet to fire one of my hand loads that was a squib or double charge. I have fired 2 squibs & 1 hot load that came from commercial reloaders. I don't buy them anymore.

I'm not saying that I'm never going to make that mistake, but I do take this stuff seriously & I haven't done that yet. (knock on wood). I did make a run of ammo several years ago that had primers that were not fully seated. Sometimes a few of them did not go off on the first hit of the firing pin. To date, that is my biggest mistake. I hope to keep it that way. That experience was very sobering for me. It cured my hubris. I will continue to be cautious whenever working at the reloading bench. I am find of ALL my body parts. Reloading is something that I take very seriously. Please forgive me if I sound like I am preaching. I feel that this needed to be said.

"Safety is no accident"
(Quote - E.Boldt)

[Jim]

Squibs and double charges are not hard to avoid with a well thought out and established loading procedure. I must admit, though, my record is tarnished. I had a squib on a range in Columbia, SC back in '07 and one on a public range in Charleston, SC back in '00 or '01.
One mistake that I can proudly say I've never made is a double charge. Never blown a gun, thank you, Lord!
I got much too close to a fragging double one time, though. I was loading CBs in .303, using WC860. I got most of the 50 cases loaded when I happened to look at the powder container on the bench. WC 820!!! I'm not kiddin' ya', it scared me so bad, I took 'em outside and buried 'em about two feet deep! I realized later that I could have just pulled 'em down, but the reality of what could have happened shook me so bad, I didn't think of that at the time.

[btroj]

Ever think that maybe Bass Pro doesn't want reloads because they sell ammo? They do not have a range as a "community betterment" project, it is there to make money. Business is all about profit and your reloads don't make them any.

[sirgknight]

Just a couple of thoughts here.....first, if you could arrive at the range with an undercharged round, then it's quite possible that you could arrive at the range with a "double" charged round. To make a mistake is only human and some mistakes could risk the wellbeing of yourself and others. Being a veteran and having worked in law enforcement for 25 years I have seen a whole gambit of firearms safety violations over the years....everything from firing on the range before the RO's instruction, to turning and pointing a loaded and cocked weapon directly at the person in the adjacent shooting station, to shooting one's own toes off from having the shotgun barrel resting on top of the boot during post exchange. I think that individual firearms safety is as unique as fingerprints; that's why "general" rules are a necessity at a public firing range, and they may not be the rules that we would have or like. Which brings me to the second thought.....If you were able to open up your own private shooting range, knowing that any and every kind of shooter would be walking onto that range, what rules would you institute to insure safety for all? I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with the rules at that shooting range, but I can say that I understand the logic in having them. Nuff said......be SAFE and have fun!!!!

[H.Callahan]

Sometimes I forget how lucky we are here in AZ. I can shoot anything I want within a 35 minute drive of the house.
Amen. I would kill to have range, even a Bass Pro range, that was closer to home than the current 1.25 hour drive (one way) I have now to get to a range where I can shoot. Next time you rankle at some of the rules, remember you are lucky that you have a choice of where to shoot.

[kelbro]

Sometimes I forget how lucky we are here in AZ. I can shoot anything I want within a 35 minute drive of the house.

It's almost worth enduring this 105+ temps we've been having this week :)

[uscra112]

'Fraid I can tell the same stories about wannabees with AKs and even AR-15s. One guy I saw was blasting a full magazine into a large (and deep) puddle about 50 yards from the firing line. I asked him later if he knew where his ricochets were going. "Oh, yeah, right". I'm still not sure he understood the question. Another pet peeve is guys who put tires out front and shoot at them. Was at a gun show a few years ago where some kid opened a box of ammo on one table, loaded a round in a gun on an adjacent table, and fired it, and yes, somebody got hit. Given that there are a few folks like that in the world, I can't blame any commercial range operator for being strict.

As far as reloads - I've been loading for 15 years, and I'll admit that I did a couple of squibs when I was starting out. Never have done a double, (knock wood) but I know of two or three acknowledged experts who have blown up guns, including one Winchester High Wall, which is tough to do. (There's an old pilots' saying - there's those who have had a crash, and those who haven't crashed yet.)
The risk analysts that work for Bass Pro's insurance companies know about such incidents, and know that one blown-up revolver that even moderately injured a person nearby might cost them millions, so of course they'll insist on prohibiting reloads. In a society as riddled with tort lawyers as ours, can you blame them?

[BulletFactory]

I dont use monitored ranges. Too many rules, as well as who knows how safe the guy next to you shooting really is.

That said, I love to go to bass pro, but I dont use the range. One of my favorite things to do there, is to openly carry my loaded firearm right past the greeter who is locking up someone elses gun who wants to shoot. That cracks me up every time.

[cbrick]

For those with a safe, secure, private range that's nearby it can be easy to forget how difficult it might be to find another should you loose it. Most of the local national forest shooting places anywhere near this area have been closed for several years. Mostly because of the tremendous mess left behind, refrigerators, old cars, knee deep in in broken glass, drunks shooting up everything in sight etc. All this left for the Forest Service to clean up. Several of the public shooting ranges have closed also. Housing encroachment, anti's complaining of noise, law suits etc.

Our range is a 100 acre privately owned public shooting range of which I am a part owner (a very small part). We can shoot anything that is legal to own in the state. This range is also where the silhouette club range is and where I shoot. Many times I have the silhouette range to myself, the public range can have several hundred people cramed in and I have a 200 foot covered firing line to myself, nice. The public range has many rules and RO's to enforce them. The RO's are schooled to not use any sort of strong arm tactics, the shooters are our customers after all but they do enforce not only safety violations but anything that appears to be a safety issue. As crowded as the public range can get at times we do have a pretty good safety record. Been a few incidents, a blown up 50 BMG (handloads) last year as an example. As a part owner I can fully understand the safety rules, some are indeed annoying but there is a reason for them. Safety!

If you have a decent place to shoot abide by all of the rules and leave the place cleaner than you found it. Maybe you'll be able to keep enjoying it.

Rick

[lwknight]

Its a 50 mile drive for me to my little 40 acre private spot in the middle of nowhere but I still gave up my local club membership. They had plenty of rules but, usually no one was there to mess with so you were on your own anyway. The problem I had was a $100.00 per year membership and the target stands were is such bad repair that I had to bring mt own anyway.

They had to do away with the steel falling plates because some idiot shot pocks into them with a rifle. The pocks make the plates dangerous because you cannot know where the splatter will go. It can and has sent jacket metal back with enough velocity to cut the shooter or bystander.

One guy was especially lucky. A bullet fragment hit him in the gut and was no big deal. Just a little blood spot. His friend talked him into getting checked out anyway. There was no bullet material embedded but as it turned out , the examination revealed that his spleen was about to burst and the doctors said that it would have killed him if they had not just happened to find it. So I guess getting shot saved his life.

[MikeS]

Actually the no reloads policy didn't bother me. I figured it was put there by the lawyers. Considering that there isn't a firearm made that doesn't say that reloads will void their warrantee, and I don't know of any reloaders that will shoot factory ammo thru a newly bought gun because of that clause.

The rule that bothered me, and the reason I won't shoot there again was the bit with the trigger locks. As bulletfactory said above, they only lock the unloaded guns of folks going to shoot there, folks that are either carrying concealed, or open, can walk right in with a loaded handgun with no problem! Is somebody going there to shoot more likely to go 'postal' on them than any other customer that's carrying a loaded weapon, that's not there to use the range?

I even think that their marking the boxes of ammo customers bring in with a rubber stamp makes sense. If I go there with 2 boxes of ammo, the same type they sell, possibly even bought there at an earlier visit, but I only shoot one of them, if the box isn't stamped, it would be hard for them to know if I brought that box of ammo with me, or if I grabbed it off the shelf while going to or coming from the range proper. I would not want them to think I was trying to steal a box of ammo from them!

And the issue of targets not having a head, or arms, yet at the archery range you can shoot at photos of Bambi all day long without a problem. I mean what's printed on the piece of paper I'm shooting at has little chance of causing them a law suit, so I see no reason for that rule, It's not for safety, it's not for any reason I can think of other than some liberal antigun Suit wanting to make trouble for paying customers! I mean if they said that it was their policy that you had to buy and shoot at their targets only, I could understand it, they're trying to sell targets, but telling me to fold back the head & arms? *** is that about? I ended up giving my targets that I brought with me to the RO, and bought some of their targets just because it was easier, and I didn't care about spending $2.00 to buy them.

[adrians]

Ever think that maybe Bass Pro doesn't want reloads because they sell ammo? They do not have a range as a "community betterment" project, it is there to make money. Business is all about profit and your reloads don't make them any.

me thinks you hit the nail smack on the head there.
we have a fairly big sporting store here in arkansas that sell everything to do with handloads (primers,,, powder boolits{if you must buy them},) but NOT brass so they figure you will buy at least one box of factory ammo to get the brass ,, it,s a sale and thats the name of the game.
myself and herself are looking to move to "the country" with enough acres so i can stand in tthe middle of the land and shoot 1000 yds any direction and not desturb the peace,.
most ranges i have been to have the 1 second rapid fire rule because you get some bloody stupid idiot with a sks or ak blasting away not thinking or not knowing about muzzle raise , i can live with that rule,safety first.
as for bass pro i think the trigger lock thing is a little "overkill" excuse the pun.
have a safe sunday, adrians.:evil::coffee::twisted:

[btroj]

The trigger lock is silly but their range, their rules. No matter where you shoot, short of your own land, there will be rules. I belong to a club that doesn't allow any holster carry. Not ever. So I don't use a holster. Not a big deal.

I saw rules posted that may be a pain, may be silly, but not worth not shooting.

[BulletFactory]

So just mexican carry.

That makes about as much sense as the jerkoff who is driving too slow for "safety" and then slams on the brakes (trying to cause an accident) because everyone is always up their as/ bumper. Of course crashes are safer than normal flow of traffic.

[MikeS]

The trigger lock is silly but their range, their rules. ...

You're absolutely right. That's why I won't shoot there again. There are other ranges, and I'm sure I'll find one with rules I can live with.

[Jim]

.....myself and herself are looking to move to "the country" with enough acres so i can stand in tthe middle of the land and shoot 1000 yds any direction and not desturb the peace,......

A radius of a thousand yards will require a minimum of 628 acres in a round plot.

[The Dove]

Damn, that's just shy of a section!!!

The Dove

[adrians]

wow thats alot of land ,i may have to rethink the 1000 yd deal and just have a 200yd shooting lane .:groner:

[runnin lead]

Sure is nice to have a range 10 min away.
I can shoot about anything I want at that range firearms and amunition wise.
I have been kicked off the range Or asked to leave many times & have never had a problem with it at all.
When a work crew from the DOW shows up to do actual range improvements I am happy to leave.
When the conservation officer shows up & says that they will be doing a hunter safety class or some one from 4-H shows & says that the kids will be coming.
Those 4-H kids are probably the main reason the land owner agreed to have a range on HIS land .
The way I look at it if it wasn't for those 4-H kids I would have to drive 45 min instead of 10 to shoot.

I'M LUCKY

[The Dove]

Hey runnin lead, does DOW stand for Department of Wildlife? If so, why are they making range improvement on a private range?? Just curious.

The Dove

[rogn]

Minor Calculator disagreement, mine thinks 649 acres. So what?

[Recluse]

The rule that bothered me, and the reason I won't shoot there again was the bit with the trigger locks. As bulletfactory said above, they only lock the unloaded guns of folks going to shoot there, folks that are either carrying concealed, or open, can walk right in with a loaded handgun with no problem! Is somebody going there to shoot more likely to go 'postal' on them than any other customer that's carrying a loaded weapon, that's not there to use the range?

And the issue of targets not having a head, or arms, yet at the archery range you can shoot at photos of Bambi all day long without a problem. I mean what's printed on the piece of paper I'm shooting at has little chance of causing them a law suit, so I see no reason for that rule, It's not for safety, it's not for any reason I can think of other than some liberal antigun Suit wanting to make trouble for paying customers!

This fascination with shooting "human-like" targets never ceases to amaze me. Bass Pro Shops is a family-centric business and didja ever stop and think that maybe some six/seven/eight-year-old kids watching people shoot might not understand some redneck ******** about trigger locks and reloads blasting away at some target that looks like a human being?

When you've actually shot a real human being and been through the aftermath, come back and gripe all you want about not being allowed to indulge fantasies.

Funny that all during my years in the military and federal law enforcement, the only time we ever shot at "human looking" targets were in the "Hogan's Alley" scenarios. All other time on the range was spent either shooting at 3x5 index cards (which I continue to do to this day), bullseye targets, or Q-targets (milk-bottle targets in civilian jargon).

My wife and my cousin's wife and daughter travel to the Bass Pro Shops by DFW airport to shoot. I've been with them a few times. I don't like the trigger lock thing, but I also recognize that a good percentage of gun-owner/shooters are absolute slobs and nincompoops.

If I had a 40,000 square foot retail facility with over 2000 shoppers in it at any given moment, I'm sure I'd be very cognizant about my rules. I'm sure my INSURANCE COMPANY would be even more cognizant.

No rapid fire? Fine by me. Take a look at the ceilings and walls of most indoor ranges. That will tell you all you need to know about rapid-fire rules. Don't like 'em? Build your own indoor range.

My partner in law enforcement had a gun store and indoor range. All of us worked at it. I've seen firsthand the damage done by slobs, idiots and alpha-hotels. When we took it over, lots of delta-alpha rednecks who didn't think the rules applied to them because the last owners were either afraid of them or intimidated by them.

Not us and we ran their sorry hides off.

Your ten/fifteen bucks to shoot and blast away doesn't even afford the cost of the plywood and insulation to repair the damage done by shooting up the ceilings or walls because you like the sound and feel of BANG-BANG. . . BANG BANG BANG.

Shooters. Often times we are our own worst enemies and the most inconsiderate of other people's properties.

The result is the rules you, and most of us, don't care for but have to abide by.

:coffee:

[Bloodman14]

If anyone happens to be in Lebanon, Mo., look me up and come on out on a Saturday; all I ask is that you fire ONLY into the berm/target area, and pick up your brass (I don't want to hit it with the lawnmower!).

[Bwana]

That's interesting, in 21 years of federal law enforcement, all we have ever shot at were "human-like" targets. Of course if we were going to shoot anything it was going to be a human so it kind of makes sense.
Now if a milk bottle ever needed shooting we would probably be found lacking. I hope I never have to find out.

[The Dove]

^^^^^^^^^

BWAHAHAHAHA

The Dove

[JeffinNZ]

I don't understand the carry on here.

It's simple as stated. Their range, their rules. If you don't like it go somewhere else. Embrace it, accept it, move along.

With the litigation laws you have in the US I am surprised ANYONE runs a commercial shooting range.

[The Dove]

Hey Jeff, with the litigation laws we have here in the United States of America, i'm surprised anyone has a commercial business......

The Dove

[Recluse]

That's interesting, in 21 years of federal law enforcement, all we have ever shot at were "human-like" targets. Of course if we were going to shoot anything it was going to be a human so it kind of makes sense.
Now if a milk bottle ever needed shooting we would probably be found lacking. I hope I never have to find out.

:) But if you ever catch the milkman skulking about your house and he threatens you with an empty milk bottle. . .

I got out of that line of work literally the day Janet Reno became our boss--so I have no idea what they're using now. But not having "human-like" targets to practice at didn't seem to hinder anyone I served with or worked with when they had to actually shoot--be it overseas in the military or in south Florida, Houston, Philadelphia, Detroit or Dallas when I was in the LE biz.

Of course, I also never saw a single bad guy stand with one hand on his hip and remain perfectly still at a set distance so we could get an easy, clean, un-rushed, no-pressure, no worry of shooting or hitting any friendlies shot fired off at him.


Hey Jeff, with the litigation laws we have here in the United States of America, i'm surprised anyone has a commercial business......

The Dove

Ditto. Surprised anyone can do anything that requires a gov't "permission slip." :rolleyes:

[white eagle]

round here ya need to be 21 years or older to shoot
no 8-9 year old can shoot
as for watching I do believe that the parents can control their children
and some of the smarter parents even tell the kids they are just targets no real people

[cbrick]

round here ya need to be 21 years or older to shoot. no 8-9 year old can shoot

Times sure have changed. I was 9 years old when I got my first rifle. Still have it, a Remington rolling block 22.

Rick

[Bwana]

Yeah, Janet was a hoot. I missed the memo every two weeks that came with our T&A earnings sheets extolling the virtues of homosexuality, diversity, etc.
And while we have time constraints, the lops are allowed to make up their unfired shots. Wouldn't want anybody to have to requalify or not qualify. That's the reason I declined to become an "instructor'" 20 years ago; I couldn't be part of a lie.
We have had Admin types fire into the concrete less than six feet in front of them, toss their handguns down range on the draw, point loaded guns at people. It is scary sometimes. I only have to do it one more time and that's if I decide to stay that long.

[Recluse]

round here ya need to be 21 years or older to shoot
no 8-9 year old can shoot
as for watching I do believe that the parents can control their children
and some of the smarter parents even tell the kids they are just targets no real people

And down here, so long as the child is with an adult and if they can hold the gun, they can shoot. You might try checking out a place to live where there's still some freedom.

*shrug* Doesn't make a damn to me. Don't like Bass Pro's rules, then don't shoot there and don't shop there. It really is that simple.

Better yet, start your OWN commercial range then report back to us in five/ten years about how you still don't have any rules.

There are ranges and businesses where I don't like the rules, so my solution is real simple: I avoid those places. Their playground, their INVESTMENT and MONEY, their rules.

It's not my favorite place to shoot and it's been several years since I last fired a gun at a Bass Pro indoor range, but I don't see how they are "not friendly towards reloaders."

:coffee:

[Recluse]

Yeah, Janet was a hoot. I missed the memo every two weeks that came with our T&A earnings sheets extolling the virtues of homosexuality, diversity, etc.

Were you around when her first memo came out, targeted at the FBI/Miami office? The result of their "office SWAT" team reconfiguration was hilarious. Twelve agents, and only one white heterosexual male on the team.

That's when I knew the FBI as we once knew it was doomed. [smilie=b:

That's also when I knew no matter what it took, I was going to finish my MBA and MA and once I got my feet rooted in the private sector, it would take a front-end loader to pry 'em out.


And while we have time constraints, the lops are allowed to make up their unfired shots. Wouldn't want anybody to have to requalify or not qualify. That's the reason I declined to become an "instructor'" 20 years ago; I couldn't be part of a lie.
We have had Admin types fire into the concrete less than six feet in front of them, toss their handguns down range on the draw, point loaded guns at people. It is scary sometimes. I only have to do it one more time and that's if I decide to stay that long.

How long before you can pull the pin? The feds I know tell me that age 55 can't come fast enough for them. A lot used to talk about hitting 55, then finding a C or D office to transfer to to ride out the last five years.

But now, they just want out. My best friend, who's been with the FBI since the early 80's, says Holder is a hundred times worse than Reno could ever have aspired to be. But he (my friend) is very senior and works out of the WFO.

He's counting the days until he hits 55.

Hang in there and make your investment, time and grade pay off for you. And in the meantime, keep your head down when shooting around the supervisors, ASACs and SACs.

:coffee:

[JeffinNZ]

You guys are funny. :-)

[SciFiJim]

The only indoor range near me (about 50 miles away) not only doesn't allow reloads, they also don't allow you to bring in your own commercially loaded ammo. You have to purchase their ammo that they are very proud of. Their range, their rules. I don't shoot there!

[JIMinPHX]

The only time in the last several years that I have shot at any "human shaped" paper targets was when I was manufacturing some go-away posters for my little sister to hang at her house as a message for the would-be criminals in her area.

[BulletFactory]

I dont like shooting bullseys, they dont break into homes, or hold up party stores.

[Recluse]

I dont like shooting bullseys, they dont break into homes, or hold up party stores.

And paper targets do? ;-)

:coffee:

[evan price]

Went to one range once. No reloads. No lead bullets. No aluminum or steel case ammo. No Winchester White Box bulk 9mm ammo from Walmart in the 100-round loose box (but you could buy THEIR WWB in 50-round boxes...?) All brass belonged to the range- you could not take brass home with you at all (supposedly).
Got stuck having to buy a box of 357 Mag to shoot there because all my 357 was lead. Started shooting and was reboxing the empties... guy had a hissy when I wouldn't give them to him. I paid for the ammo, I was taking my brass. I had also reboxed my bulk 9mm WWB in WinClean 50-rd boxes from another range- joke was on them. Only range I ever got asked to leave, and glad to do so. (For not giving them my brass) They are out of business now.

[MikeS]

This fascination with shooting "human-like" targets never ceases to amaze me. Bass Pro Shops is a family-centric business and didja ever stop and think that maybe some six/seven/eight-year-old kids watching people shoot might not understand some redneck ******** about trigger locks and reloads blasting away at some target that looks like a human being? ...

First off, I don't know how your Bass Pro Shop is laid out, but the one here the range is upstairs, and you need to take an elevator to get to it, so it's totally separate from the retail store area. On one side is the pistol range, on the other the archery range. The targets I was going to use is NOT one of the ones that is a drawing of a man, it's a silhouette shaped roughly like a man, and is a standard target for many USPSA/IDPA. The only reason I use that target is I have a box full of them that my father used to use. If the targets were another design, then I would be shooting that, I really have no preference.

As for six/seven/eight year olds, I would think they would get much more upset about folks on the archery range shooting Bambi rather than something that roughly looks like a person! Not to mention that the smaller targets that they sell are IDENTICAL to the ones I had, only smaller in size. And if there were any kids there, they should have their parents right next to them, last I checked Bass Pro Shops aren't babysitters, and the parents should be able to explain about the targets. Besides, in todays world, those kids have probably already killed dozens of people, stolen cars, and had sex with hookers all on their home TV!

And as for reloads, that's the reason I went to shoot, to see how my reloads shot, not to see how my gun works! What is the purpose of reloading if you can't shoot the reloads?

And my comments about rapid fire were not about Bass, but rather our county outdoor range that has I think a 2 second rule, anything faster than that they consider rapid fire, and While I don't go out to see how fast I can empty a clip, I think properly aimed shots can be done in less than 2 seconds! And as far as rednecks blasting away at human shaped targets, around here most of them are wearing uniforms! At the same range that imposes a 2 second rule, LEOs shoot rapid fire all the time, and totally disregard safety rules that everyone else has to abide by! I see no reason why on a public range (not a specific training exercise) they shouldn't follow the same rules as everyone else!

[BulletFactory]

As for six/seven/eight year olds, I would think they would get much more upset about folks on the archery range shooting Bambi rather than something that roughly looks like a person! Not to mention that the smaller targets that they sell are IDENTICAL to the ones I had, only smaller in size. And if there were any kids there, they should have their parents right next to them, last I checked Bass Pro Shops aren't babysitters, and the parents should be able to explain about the targets. Besides, in todays world, those kids have probably already killed dozens of people, stolen cars, and had sex with hookers all on their home TV!



Well said.

Human targets are a life saving tool. They are used to desensitize the lawful self defense shooter so that they do not choke when presented with a threat. They also serve to train on better shot placement, much more effective than bullseye targets. Those are for dialing in scopes, sights, and calibrating your reloads.

As far as the kids go, if the 7 year old pulled a gun on you, what would you do?