Toxic level of smoke generated from shooting cast boolits?

[Gunslinger]

So, how hazardous is it?! The question may seem silly to some... but I shoot an average of 2000 rounds every week. And as of late, when I come home from a 400 round session I can taste the lead when i cough - not very pleasant.

[theperfessor]

Are you shooting indoors?

[MT Gianni]

Taste the lead or the lube? What powders are you using? Some available in the US really stink (7383).

[Gunslinger]

No, outdoors. But I shoot IPSC and often shoot strings of 10-15 rounds in about 8 seconds. And afterwards, and for hours later I can taste the lead....

Edit: I think it is the lead I can taste. I use Vectan powder!

[skeet1]

Gunslinger,
Is what you are tasting a sweet taste in the back of your mouth? If this is what you are tasting I also have had this sensation years ago shooting in a indoor range that had poor ventilation. I always thought that this was lead also.

Ken

[harvester]

Burned primers emit lead styphnate which is toxic and is a risk at indoor ranges or outdoors with wind in your face. Also for reloaders who accumulate spent primers in bulk.

[Cherokee]

Gunslinger - that's a lot of rounds. I also would like to hear from someone that knows. I can smell the lead styphnare from spent primers but I've never noticed any taste in my mouth and most of what I shoot is lead (200-500 week).

[sargenv]

Hmm.. I too shoot lead outdoors, and at the same speeds at the OP and in addition, I shoot these out of a revolver, so it's coming out from the gap as well as the barrel.. I have not experienced the same feeling though.. I shoot lead bullets tumble lubed with JPW.. so maybe the op gets more smoke than I do..

[harvester]

duplicate

[1Shirt]

Don't shoot that much handgun. Wow, 2K a week, thats a whoop. However, when shooting any quantity of Lee Mule Snot notice more than a reasonable amount of smoke, and it stinks, and maybe it is just me, but I think I sense an after taste.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[Floydster]

2000 rounds a week, man I have to move to Denmark----I shoot about 200 rounds a week and they call me smokeyloads:)
As far as shooting outside, I don't worry about it, but maybe I would at 2000 rounds, that's unbelieveable.
Floydster

[mold maker]

If your concerned, have the Dr. test your levels. It's not expensive, and Peace of Mind is worth a lot. If the worst is true, it's time to do something about it. If all clear, your worrying for naught.
I have mine tested with ever annual physical. It is always at, or below, the expected norm.

[KYCaster]

I've been shooting USPSA/IPSC since the mid 80's and I've been monitoring my lead level since the mid 90's.

I consider that taste you mention to be the first sign of significant exposure to lead. It is most likely from the lead styphnate primers that Cherokee mentioned.

It's not often a problem when shooting outdoors, but I notice it every time I shoot indoors and my lead level has always increased when I regularly shoot a weekly match at the indoor range.

First thing to do is get your lead level checked. If you get a regular check up for cholesterol, liver condition or whatever, ask your doctor to do a serum lead check. It will add $50.00 or so to the cost of the labs, but you need to establish a trend. Don't get upset if your Dr. freaks out....most of them don't know anything about lead.

Take a good look at your range. Is the prevailing wind blowing smoke in your face? How hard would it be to change the direction you're shooting?

Instead of three 400 round sessions per week, could you change that to two 300 round sessions and a couple of hours of dry fire practice? That would cut your exposure in half.

Seriously consider wearing a good filter mask during your practice sessions. The primer residue is vaporized so a cheap Harbor Freight particulate mask is not what you need.

But, you don't know if any of this is necessary till you know what your lead level is.

Jerry

[btroj]

Yep, get the level checked. We can ponder, worry, postulate all we want or we can go and KNOW.

[wallenba]

I was tasting it too. Now that summer is here in the north, my indoor range has more fans running. In the winter heat loss is expensive.

[10x]

Years back when I shot at an indoor range I got the yucky metal taste in my mouth. Got my blood lead levels checked and there was no measurable lead.
I also noticed that when I spit it was "muddy" no lead in that either.

[Gunslinger]

Thanks for all the replies/thoughts

I had my lead level checked back in January - it was 16! Since then I have taken a few precautions:

- No smoking/drinking/eating while casting/reloading/shooting/collecting brass
- I drink 400ml freshly presset orange juice every morning, and also drink milk and take iron, calcium and vitamin C tablets every day.
- I wear latex gloves when reloading/sizing/collecting brass

I actually have an appointment today to have another lead-level blood test - which I'm pretty nervous about because the swwet taste in the back of my mouth is something fairly new! Before 2011 I averaged 400-500 rounds a week and back then I never had this sweet taste after shooting. So I fear this is a sign that my lead level has risen! But like you say... before I get my new test - it's all just guessing.

If what I can taste is lead sulfide from the primers, switching to jacketed bullets won't help, at least theoretically!? What about lead free primers? Would this be worth considering (if my lead level has indeed gone up)? Are they much more expensive than normal primers?

I know 2000 rounds every week is a lot! But I LOVE shooting that much... I really really really love it! And I make improvements every week! 1 year ago I was a nobody, today I'm one of the top 10 IPSC shooters in the country!

[303Guy]

Good on your shooting!:Fire:

You didn't mention the use of any medicated beverage. That's a must!:drinks:
It's got nothing to do with lead levels but it does reduce the stressing about it.[smilie=1:

[Wayne Smith]

I think it's Federal that doesn't use lead styphanate in their primers, but others who know for sure will chime in. Are they available in Denmark?

[XWrench3]

i was thinking something along the lines of Wayne Smith. do the "new Clean Enviromentally Freindly " primers use lead styphanate? if not, that may be your ticket out. your health (if it is indeed at risk [seriously, you need to get it checked]) is worth a lot more than the cost of cleaner primers. you know what they say about an ounce of prevention.

[captaint]

I always have that taste in my mouth after shooting indoors. My son, on the other hand, does not. Beats me. I did get my lead levels checked recently and my # was 12. that looks like high normal to me according to the paperwork that came with the results. I don't get that taste shooting outdoors. enjoy Mike

[wallenba]

I wonder too, if bees wax based bullet lubes might still have enough honey in them to cause this sweet taste when turned into smoke.
After I changed my boolits to gas check types and switched to Carnuba Red, I don't taste it anymore.

[timbuck]

Lead acetate
Lead acetate (sometimes called sugar of lead) is an artificial sugar substitute made from lead that is of historical interest because of its widespread use in the past, such as by ancient Romans. The use of lead acetate as a sweetener eventually produced lead poisoning in any individual ingesting it habitually. Lead acetate was abandoned as a food additive throughout most of the world after the high toxicity of lead compounds became apparent.
from this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_substitute

the ancient romans used lead powder to enhance the flavor of wine and such.

[BeeMan]

I think it's Federal that doesn't use lead styphanate in their primers, but others who know for sure will chime in. Are they available in Denmark?

There are couple different forms of lead styphnate; 'basic' and 'normal'. My understanding is that most primer compositions use one of these, while Federal uses the other. Both contain lead.

I also recall Felix mentioning zinc supplements being of value for managing lead. That may be worth some research.

BeeMan

[BeeMan]

I think it's Federal that doesn't use lead styphanate in their primers, but others who know for sure will chime in. Are they available in Denmark?

There are couple different forms of lead styphnate; 'basic' and 'normal'. My understanding is that most primer compositions use one of these, while Federal uses the other. Both contain lead.

I also recall Felix mentioning zinc supplements being of value for managing lead. That may be worth some research.

BeeMan

[Gunslinger]

I wonder too, if bees wax based bullet lubes might still have enough honey in them to cause this sweet taste when turned into smoke.
After I changed my boolits to gas check types and switched to Carnuba Red, I don't taste it anymore.

My lube consists of beeswax, paraffin and vaseline, a third of each! So I recon that could be where the sweet taste comes from.

I doesn't really taste like lead smell, I does taste metallic though, of course that could be my mind playing tricks on me!