.45-120 SS Accuracy problems

[Stampede]

I have problems with my .45-120 SS with a 535grain Postell Cast Bullet.

Some one told me that the bullet is to large (long). I use a 32" Sharps rifle by Pedersoli. With use of 110grains 2F Swiss on a LRM primer (CCI). After shooting the cases are "extremely" clean, no debris. Even the barrel is pretty clean. So that clould not be the problem i think.

What is the recomended bullet (length) for a .45-120 with use of black powder.:???:

[RMulhern]

Well....let me put it to you this way: Your Postell bullet isn't too long! That rifle probably has a 1-18" ROT and it will perform very well with that bullet once you've found the right powder charge and compression rate! Your cartridge is somewhat of a 'bastardized' version as the Sharps company only produced a 2 7/8" length case! Try you some 1F powder instead of the 2F and you might also try 'wiping' betwixt shots!

[Stampede]

Okay, that's worth trying !

[cajun shooter]

This is a caliber that requires some work. I have never loaded for it so I will only say what I have read about the Pedersoli rifles as I have shot plenty with them and BP. What RM tells you is quite correct and he knows about the shooting of these rifles. I would try to seat the bullet out to where it is just touching the lands.

[Don McDowell]

2f Swiss is entirely to fast of a powder for the 120. You might get along with Goex 2f but it's still going to be a bit fast. Best bet might be if you can get some of the KIK in 1.5 or 1 f .

[Stampede]

Now i'm going somewhere now.....these are the tips i'm looking for.

It seems to me that i'm at the right place now. This forum is new to me...... and i reload (all most 18 calibers) over 20 years now, it's never late to learn!;-)

Peter (Stampede)

[SharpsShooter]

First of all welcome to the forum! The 45-120 is a bit less than user friendly black powder cartridge, but that challenge is part of the fun. The Lyman 457132 will work fine as will the 457125, but the 132 would be my choice for starters.

I too would use 1f or no more than 1.5f. I would fill the case to the top using a drop tube, then weight that charge for future reference. Pour it back into the case, top it with a .060" thickness wad and compress only deep enough to allow seating the bullet far enough into the case that it will chamber. It is easier to do than you might think. From that point it is a matter of shoot and test. Take good notes and change only one variable at a time so there is no doubt as to it's influence on the load's accuracy.

SS

[Boz330]

Peter,
I can see your problem right off, it is that reloading room, it is way to neat and organized to be able to load something reliably.:kidding:

I'm looking forward to how you do since I'm getting ready to start on a 45-100, not quite the same animal, but enough for me. There should be a Postel mold waiting at home when I get there this evening. Good luck.

Bob

[John Boy]

Source: Introduction to BPCR Loading

.45 x 3.25" (AKA45/120) Clive Taylor “ The Brit”
Bullet: NEI 349J cast from new flashing lead (99.6% pure). Casts at 585 grn nominal and .461
dia. and are not sized. Bullets are weighed and batched in groups 583.6/584.5, 584.6/585.5,
585.6/586.5 anything above or below discarded (very few). I generally cast 500 - 1000 at a time
which makes this technique viable. Comps. shot from one batch. Not indexed. Finger seated. Not
crimped.
Lube: Home brew. Pan lubed. All grooves filled.
Wad: Wax card from milk carton. Punched with die cutter made by Charlie Higginbottom
Grease Cookie: 11mm thick of home brew. Cookie cut from pan.
Beeswax Wad: Cookie cut from Hive Starter sheets.
Case: HDS trimmed to 3.245. Not resized at all. Not sorted or indexed. Scrubbed internally after
shoot and vibrated in crushed corn and brasso for 2 hours before reloading.
Powder: Kicker load of 45 grains of Swiss #4 (1.5fg to you) poured into case. 70 grains of Wano
fg (socked) poured into case. Both charges are weighed using Dillon D-Terminator. Compressed
.5" using Buffalo Arms compression die.
Primer: Remingtom 9 1/2 Large Rifle seated with Lee Auto Prime

[semtav]

When I was playing with mine, I used a 665 gr bullet. Started out with goex FFG and got horrendous accuracy. Switched to Goex FG and the pattern really tightened up. WLR primers worked best for me.

[Stampede]

Yeah.....nice and clean reloading bench (room) isn’t it.

Well I’m a clockmaker and goldsmith by profession and now do have factory for producing temperature sensors (like: thermocouples and PT-100's). This probably makes it that i like to work in a clean surrounding.

By the way i do live in “the Netherlands” and owning a gun over here is quite different than in the USA. For instance one can only own a maximum of 5 modern (Nitro) firearms with a special permit. But collecting and using antique black powder firearms is all most free of owning (no limit). Reloading ammo is just as bad, for instance you can own a maximum of 2Kg Nitro powder and 1Kg of Black powder. And the limit of “total amount” of rounds of any kind is 10.000 pieces this includes primers (primers are considered a complete round!!!!). The local Police checks this once a year..... one mistake and you loose your firearms (and permit) for life.

To give you a idea of gun ownership over here: There are about 17 million citizens and only 38.000 registered gun owners....... that says it all.

Peter (Stampede)

[firefly1957]

Stampede many democrats and the UN want the same for us here but if they had their way we would not have any guns.
shoot 50-3 1/4 out of Sharps Shilo and FFG will not shoot good groups FG works fine. As far as the length of your bullet the twist rate of your rifling is what decides that more than anything else. You may find that the heavier slugs shoot better past 100 yds also.

[Stampede]

I will most certainly try the different black powder (granulate) that’s for sure.

But first i have to finish my current amount and type of black powder before i’m allowed to buy a new cannister. Otherwise i will exceed the maximum of 1Kg of Black Powder, and “every” purchase of ammo, powder, cases, bullets and primers is registered over here!

By the way.....as we speak my government is trying to ban gun ownership at all. About 3 month’s ago we had our “first” national gun rampage (disaster) in a shopping mall. Some lunatic young man (21 years old) who had a legal gun permit shot 14 people.....now every legal gun owner is potential hazard for the society. But nobody likes to hear anything about the daily killings by criminals. Because we (the legal gun owners) are registered in great detail, it’s easy to pick on. There is a new law in the making that states that we can’t own any ammo at all unless it’s stored at your local gun club. So reloading will be banned at the same time....... lets hope that the government won’t pass this new law thru the parliament.

An extra note: To own a gun permit you need to be a member of 1 or more gun clubs and membership of a national organisation (like your NRA). This means that every visit and shot fired at the gun club is registered..... The Dutch government has one of the most stringent gun laws in Europe or world wide for that mather.

So be aware what your government does!

Peter (Stampede)

[felix]

It not too hard to take over a government/country when personal guns are not allowed. Hitler knew that, right? ... felix

[cajun shooter]

Stampede, I know this is not with your first post but you have my interest up. It is not often that I have a chance to talk with anyone from the Netherlands. Did not the Germans come into the Netherlands during WW11 with out any one to stop them? I ask this as it seems I have read this in the past and if true it would appear to be a lesson learned but neglected. Is some one from the government at the place you shoot to count your rounds? It seems that if you tripped and spilled some powder, would they require you to file a report where it took place so they could check it out? Just curious as I was always under the impression after the 2nd WW that the people would have taken a lesson from what happens when you can't defend yourself. I don't see any country thinking they could over take the USA as most people have arms to stop them. With all the weapons we have, we have been at war with two countries for over 10 years and we are fighting men who don't have any back packs that carry extra water or ammo.

[Stampede]

Some governments never learn, like mine.

Needles to say that self-defence with a firearm is out of the question over here.....it’s guaranteed one way ticket to jail (minimal for 4 year). This is why the criminality is extremely high.....hell we are number one in drugs abuse world wide. Even the government makes indirect big money with drugs related activities. One can think about income taxes and VAT, last year (2010) the Dutch IRS received about 12 billion Euro’s by legalizing most drugs and associated crimes.

Yes!!!!!......your rounds (ammo) are actually counted at the gun range in combination with the mandatory registered paper targets. When you buy large amounts of ammo or reloading components you absolutely can expect a unannounced visit from your local police department. Than you can explain why you need so much in combination with your visits to the range.

It sounds absurd but there is all so a minimum of mandatory visits to the gun club, this is 18 times yearly. If you don’t register 18 visits your loose your permit. If you don’t register enough visits the government thinks that you own your gun(s) for self-defence and not for sporting uses. And stated before: self-defence with a gun is against the law.....does it still make sense to you all ?!?!

The Dutch government discourage any gun ownership at all times. Of the earlier mentioned amount of gun owners is about 15% hunter and 85% sport shooter. Hunting is considered even worse, what does that “gun idiot” do with a shotgun in the field. After that last (first) shooting incident/disaster about 97% of the Dutch citizens think that nobody should own a gun in The Netherlands......Go Figure. We as gun owners keep our heads below the radar.

Peter

[Gunlaker]

Wow, and I thought we had a lot of restrictions in Canada!

Chris.

[Stampede]

Okay…..all the complaining aside, back to business and have some reloading fun:razz:

At this moment I’m (we) reloading, we making 10 rounds with the 1F (Swiss), I asked a friend of mine who uses 1F. He jumped in his car with his canister of 1F and he read the forum, he is just as enthusiast as I am about this idea.

I will shoot this load tomorrow, and will post the results at this thread a.s.a.p. …..so for the ones who are curious, come back and read all about it tomorrow. At least we can’t wait to try it out. :Luvcastboolits:

[Stampede]

Unbelievable………. The results are in!

After staggering around for more than 4 months, with very disappointing results.
After just one question on this forum, with some awesome answers/suggestions and help, look at the picture (what a result)!

These 9 rounds are shot at 200 meters on the open range this morning.
All the shots are within a 8cm group size. I did no cleaning in between, the upper shots are the last 4 ones, probably due to fouling. We kept the last (10th) round just to be on the safe side, we want to duplicate this load as you all can imagine.

Okay, they are not in the center, but I’m extremely happy with this very first test load, just tweak the load a little bit and adjust the sights (i did not compensate for the wind drift).

Load: .45-120 SS
Bullet / 535 grain Lyman (is not a Postel, see correction further on) / paper patched
Primer / CCI Large Rifle Magnum
Powder / 110grains 1F (Swiss)(this was the result changing factor) / slightly compressed
Wad (2x) / 1mm thick vegifiber, in between: approx. 3mm thick grease cookie
Head space: C.O.L. vs rifle chamber: 0,8mm/0,9mm
Rifle used: Pedersoli Sharps model 1874 “Long Range”

THANKS all you guys….. You know how to make somebody happy, I'm back in business.:)

By the way, if someone needs an accurate but modest .45-120 SS “nitro” load, I do have 2 loads on hand.

Peter (Stampede)

[firefly1957]

Stampede I DO HOPE YOU CAN KEEP YOUR GUNS OVER THERE !

That is good 200 meter group another tip that I have found is BLACK POWDER is very easy to light and I have gotten better results with large pistol primers than the large rifle magnum primers often recommended. Am not sure if you regulations allow the extra primers ?

Your Government officials would have to change there undies if they saw my reloading room! Even some of our own lawmakers think reloading should be outlawed here.

[SharpsShooter]

Very nice group! Am I understanding that you are paper patching the bullet? If yes, are you sizing to bore or groove diameter, what paper etc.??

Good shooting sir!

SS

[Stampede]

I can use the LP/LPM primers because I own all types of handguns and rifles. I will try this later on (one change at the time).

But, let's say I only own/reload large caliber rifles, I could not own and buy small/large pistol or small rifle primers. I'ts that restricted over here. Owning/using reloading components for calibers that you don't have a permit for is not allowed either. For instance: I own a .300 Win Mag so I can use only .300 Win Mag components, if I would have .223 components than i'm braking the law.

I had in the past a huge conflict with the local law enforcement. I used .50-70 cases for forming loads/cases for my 12,7x44R ammo (this is nearly the same). The 12,7x44R cases are rare and very expensive and the .50-70 are not. But I do own on my “firearms-collecting-permit” (is a separate firearms permit) both rifles/calibers. Due to lack of any knowledge by the officers they “invited” me to the police department to explain the situation..... Thank god for Internet and the book “Cartridges of the Word” otherwise they didn't understand it.

Normally case (re)forming is not allowed, because the government can't control it. There is an exception for obsolete “antique” ammo, these calibers/cases must be mentioned on your permit. This means that for every new (change) caliber/gun/ammo/component you have an appointment at your local police station. There is a special department and officer for firearms permits at any major police station.[smilie=b:

Peter

[Stampede]

I size the bullet from .458 back to .457 and use paper from a "note block". This paper is very thin but sturdy. It need only careful bullet seating.

Oops....something went wrong (my message above is double).....removed it
But placed the patched bullet instead.

[Don McDowell]

Looks like you and that rifle came to an understanding, that makes you mutually happy.

[bigted]

I size the bullet from .458 back to .457 and use paper from a "note block". This paper is very thin but sturdy. It need only careful bullet seating.

Oops....something went wrong (my message above is double).....removed it
But placed the patched bullet instead.

welcome to the forum stampede!! nice shooting and keep it up. what i have for questions are...what does your barrel measure out at [grooves/bore] also is the boolit measurement of .457 after patching or bare? also what is the thickness of your paper used for the patching?

not finding fault here just curious about what you are doing to arrive at groups that show so much promise. i have the same rifle in a uberti [ just as well say pedrosoli] so my curiosity is justified .

thankyou for sharing and again...WELCOME!

[Stampede]

No problem, I’m pleased to answer the questions.:p

The plain bullet has a perfect .458 diameter, than I patch bullet with a waver thin patch, that is just about 0.001” (see the picture with the caliper). After a couple of hours drying I size the bullet “with” the paper patch thru a .457 RCBS bullet sizer. Than I seat the bullet.

Before I shoot I use tiny bit of Ox-Yoke Wonder lube over/on the patched part of the bullet (this seems to work the best for me). The round that I kept for future indication and reference is a lubed one. Due to all the fumbling and handling the lubed patch is been damaged a bit. (see the picture). After shooting I find bits of paper strips approximately 3 meters in front of me, I have been told that is perfect.

You all so can see that my top-punch damages the tip of the bullet quite a bit, this aggravates….i can use stronger words …… me a lot:evil:. The very first picture in the earlier comments is a patched one before sizing. My bullet seater (from RCBS) keeps the bullets in very good order. I all so reload the same bullet without a patch and use only lube. I have not tried it with the differed (new) powder yet.

You all so may notice that the “overall length” is quite long, the head space for this round is between 0,8mm/0,9mm before it touches the rifling (due to the long Ogive).

I never “slugged” (measured up the lands & grooves) my rifle. I have a recessed crown (I don’t know if that’s the correct term) on my rifle barrel, and I’m extremely careful not to damage it. So basically there are a bit of “unknown” elements at play.

Peter (Stampede)

[Stampede]

May be somebody as a good tip for me how to keep the tip of my bullet during sizing in good shape.

I use the bullet type: #457132 (Lyman) and the top punch: #132. They should work together, but see the disappointing results in the above pictures. By the way I use the Lube-a-Matic from RCBS and have little to no space left for placing the long boolit in the press..

According to Lyman this must be the right combination, what am i doing wrong here ???

Perhaps I should place this question on an other “thread”.

Peter (Stampede

[SharpsShooter]

Stampede,

My bullet is .450" as cast and I patch up to a diameter of .455". After it dries, I use a Lee "push through die to iron the patch and size to .453". By using a push through die I avoid the nose damage and it really flattens the tail into the cupped base. The group was shot at 100 yards by the way. Your group at 200m is great !

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r255/SharpsShooter_photos/Ballard485gr-450dia.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r255/SharpsShooter_photos/Ballard450485grPatchedSized453diame.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r255/SharpsShooter_photos/PP485grTomBallardMould2.jpg

SS

[Gunlaker]

May be somebody as a good tip for me how to keep the tip of my bullet during sizing in good shape.

I use the bullet type: #457132 (Lyman) and the top punch: #132. They should work together, but see the disappointing results in the above pictures. By the way I use the Lube-a-Matic from RCBS and have little to no space left for placing the long boolit in the press..

According to Lyman this must be the right combination, what am i doing wrong here ???

Perhaps I should place this question on an other “thread”.

Peter (Stampede

Peter, you could try a Lee push through sizer. They are available in .457" and quite inexpensive.

Meecham Tool and Die also makes a push through sizer with various die sizes. I recently bought one but have not played with it much.

How does that bullet shoot if you do not paper patch it, but just use it as a lubricated grease groove bullet?

Chris.

[Stampede]

The Lee Push Through Die sounds more than just promising………Damm, I learned something new again. :wink:

I knew about this system, only by internet, because you can’t buy them at your local gun store over here (the Netherlands), you don’t see Lee products ......so I had no prior knowledge about it. Although I have ordered Lee parts in past straight from them. Buying reloading equipment here narrows down only to RCBS and Dillon, otherwise buy your equipment from the internet……thank god for that. To give you an idea, about 75% that you see at my picture from my reloading bench earlier on, is imported from the USA that you otherwise can’t buy over here.

I have not tried a regular bullet (without the patch) yet in the new set up. Before I had huge accuracy problems with the patched and unpatched (lubed !) bullets. I will try it any way in the near future. But I will stick to the new load at first, I don’t chance more that one detail at the time……specially when I got this lucky with the help from this forum.:-)

Peter (Stampede)

[montana_charlie]

May be somebody as a good tip for me how to keep the tip of my bullet during sizing in good shape.

I use the bullet type: #457132 (Lyman) and the top punch: #132. They should work together, but see the disappointing results in the above pictures. By the way I use the Lube-a-Matic from RCBS and have little to no space left for placing the long boolit in the press..

According to Lyman this must be the right combination, what am i doing wrong here ???

Perhaps I should place this question on an other “thread”.

Peter (Stampede
Peter,
The pictures you have posted of bullets which have not been loaded into cases all show five lube grooves hiding under the paper. The Lyman 457132 Postell bullet does not have five lube grooves.

The only Lyman bullet that resembles your pictures is the 457677 'Matthews' bullet. It is more pointed than the Postell, has five grooves, and weighs a bit less than 500 grains.
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/bullet-casting/mould-details-rifles.php?entryID=78

If you actually have a mould for this bullet, it requires the 677 top punch.

In any case, the Lyman 677 or 658 top punches will come closer to fitting the bullet in your pictures.


If you lube the nose of one of your bullets, and press it gently but firmly into a top punch filled with a two-part epoxy, you will create a 'custom fitted' top punch for your bullet. Anything you can do to ensure good alignment between the top punch and the axis of the bullet - while the epoxy cures - will be beneficial.

CM

[Stampede]

You seem to be 100% right on the bullet design, thanks for that additional information!

But now I’m puzzled about the weight, see the picture from my scale that I made just right now. I did a quick random check and this is the result. The bullet weight is all most spot on 535 grain……

They all do, give or take plus or minus a few grains. I use 95% pure lead (used for roofing and plumbing) and 5% tin (used for soldering). This is why I was under the impression that it was a Postel design. I took over the mould from a friend who used this bullet for his .45-70 but had no success with it. Neither did I until I changed the powder type last week. He did no sizing of the bullets because the never bothered the quality of his casting results any way.

But looking at your “link” to the Lyman site, it now makes perfectly cense that the top punch is not correct. So a new top punch is high on the shopping list. But the Lee Push Through Die does appeal to me all so. I keep the epoxy suggestion as last resort if a new (correct) punch still damages the tip of the bullet.

Thanks again for your keen eye !

Peter (Stampede)

[montana_charlie]

The bullet weight is all most spot on 535 grain……

They all do, give or take plus or minus a few grains. I use 95% pure lead (used for roofing and plumbing) and 5% tin (used for soldering). This is why I was under the impression that it was a Postel design.
Not all Postell bullets are 535 grains. Postell moulds from various makers show slightly different weights to be expected.
So, to decide a bullet is a Postell because it weighs 535 grains is looking at the identification process from a backward position.

A Postell is a Postell if it is shaped like a Postell. Your bullet is not shaped like a Postell, but it IS shaped somewhat like a Matthews. The weight is a source of confusion, because the Lyman Matthews mould is supposed to throw a 490 grain bullet.

That brings up the next logical question ...
Is your mould a Lyman mould?

CM

[Stampede]

yep it's a Lyman mould and the numbers on the mould say you are still right, that it's not a Postell design. See the pictures.

Because the average weight it throws out and the "similar" bullet shape send me in the wrong direction.

By the way for reloading this round i took the bullet weight as my leading point for further load development. I stick to the data (results), but correct the bullet design name.

Peter (Stampede)

[SharpsShooter]

If you favor the push through die idea, here is a link to point ya in the right direction. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=457341

I prefer a push through for all sizing and only use the press type dies to apply lube in the case of a grease groove bullet. Push through uses a large "ram" if you will that is nearly the full diameter of the bullets base. This distributes the pressure evenly across the stronger base and there is better alignment of that pressure IMO

SS

[montana_charlie]

yep it's a Lyman mould and the numbers on the mould say you are still right, that it's not a Postell design. See the pictures.

Because the average weight it throws out and the "similar" bullet shape send me in the wrong direction.
Okay, the shape is confirmed to be the tapered Matthews bullet, and I think I have an answer for the weight confusion. Lyman has based all of their casting specifications on Lyman #2 alloy.

Since you use 20-1 lead/tin, it's reasonable to expect a heavier bullet.
CM

[Stampede]

Okay.....the alloy needs some tweaking all so....thanks !

[kokomokid]

CM can you tell me what the % diff in weight is between 20:1 or 30:1 and lyman #2?

[SharpsShooter]

Okay.....the alloy needs some tweaking all so....thanks !

Peter,

Don't change that alloy! If you go to a harder alloy such as #2 I can almost guarantee BIGGER groups. Charlie was just pointing to the weight with regard to how Lyman came to figure the weight a design would labeled for specification purposes.

30:1 is a favorite of mine as is 40:1. I have also shot 20:1 but see no advantage. Stick with what works for your rifle.

You are on the edge of finding a super shooting load. I'd give a lot of thought to any change in alloy or load. Trying pistol primers or using an over-primer wad might be where I'd start.

SS

[Stampede]

I won't change any thing at this moment, except for the powder volume by a few grains. This very first test load did so much good for me that I all ready made the same load again for more shooting fun.

But I do admit that all the received advice send me in a better and new direction (and learned a lot). Like I said before I reload about 18 different calibers at this time (about 50/50 black powder/nitro loads) and this particular situation gave me so much trouble that I could not solve on my own.

I keep this site (forum) as one of my favorites, may be I can help somebody else in the future.:Luvcastboolits:

Peter

[montana_charlie]

CM can you tell me what the % diff in weight is between 20:1 or 30:1 and lyman #2?
No, I can't.


Okay.....the alloy needs some tweaking all so....thanks !

NO IT DOESN'T!!!

535 grains is a very respectable weight for a 45 caliber bullet, and 20-1 alloy is a favorite among BPCR shooters.
If your results are good and your barrel doesn't lead, the alloy is good.

CM

[kokomokid]

found an answare in lyman 3rd edition for 457193 mould , pure lead 439gr #2 alloy 420gr and linotype 407gr but no metion of 20:1. Did not intend to hijack the thread.

[calaloo]

To be accurate with a .45-120 you must be careful to flinch the same every shot.

[Stampede]

To achieve the kind of accuracy that i posted (paper target) earlier on. It takes me a lot of patience and practice. For these 9 shots i took my time with it (more than 30 minutes). After the second shot my spotter noticed that they were very close together, than my following shots are placed with even more care and patience.

I’m extreme lucky guy...........:D
I have been in the Royal Dutch Army Commando’s (mandatory draft at 18 years of age) for 4 years of service. And have learned to shoot like that with my service rifle: .338 Lapua Magnum (Remington 700). I think that you call this in de US Army: Sniper School/Training. This was the main reason why i was so extremely aggravated [smilie=b:about the failing accuracy before, knowing my own level of shooting skil.

This experience as never failed ever since. Now i use privately for competition and hunting a .300WinMag with handloaded ammo and I’m able to a achieve even more tighter groups. The .300WM is way more forgiving than the .45-120 SS but not as much fun than the Pedersoli Sharps.

Peter (Stampede)

[montana_charlie]

Your Pedersoli is probably happy that it is being held in good hands ...

[Lead pot]

A lot of high power shooters get frustrated shooting black powder cartridge rifles.
They expect getting the MOA or sub MOA groups @ the 1000 yard line on demand every time they shoot.
It just wont happen.
And one can shoot a very tight group @ 200 off the bench or cross sticks one day and the next time out they are lucky to stay on the target with the same load.
The heavy recoiling calibers like the big 50's and the 2 7/8, 3.25 45's, if you cant absorb the recoil you will never get the full potential from the rifle.

[Stampede]

Correct, this is for me the main reason for shooting long range black powder rifles in the first place. There are way more challenges on the path for the best possible and achievable results. Therefore more fun and pleasure I receive from shooting black powder rifles.

But when I can’t find the source of the problem (when it’s not me;)), I seek help. This is what I have found on this forum. And brought the fun back in shooting my .45-120.

Peter (Stampede)