My Progress So Far

[BigRix]

My second session with the 429421 went smoother but with poor results.

One keeper after a short session. Still working on my process.

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss208/BigRix/Casting/b89dcf80.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss208/BigRix/Casting/daf48ea0.jpg

My third session went much better with about half of them keepers. The main problem I had was filling out the front of the first driving band.

Switched gears and went with the single cavity 358416. Once the mold got up to temp boolits were falling out of the mold.

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss208/BigRix/Casting/11a95977.jpg

I went through this pile and had about a 90% success rate.

I have one question. I hand cut all the sprues and discovered if I cut too early I was left with a divot in the base of the boolit.

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss208/BigRix/Casting/714ce378.jpg

Can I still shoot these or should I throw them back?

Thanks

[alfloyd]

Shoot them, you will not notice any differance.

Lafaun

[303Guy]

Personally I'd shoot them but I wouldn't be expecting the best accuracy. Those others with 'plucked' bases won't shoot much better I should think. If'n it were me I would change the alloy to stop that 'plucking' effect. That's from my own findings. Then again, I don't want an alloy that's hard enough to 'pluck'.

[geargnasher]

The "divot" is fine. Consistency is the key, I try to keep all of my boolits having the same divot because I keep the mould temp constant by adjusting casting pace, and don't start keeping them until the divot starts to appear. Some call it a "goat's ****", because that's what it resembles. This probably horrifies some, thinking that you have to have a little nib left from cutting the sprue when it's dead-solid, but that's just a matter of preference. I personally don't like putting that much stress on the sprue plate wave washer, and I cut my sprues by hand like you rather than using a mallet. On moulds that I haven't gotten perfected yet and still have to tap the handle hinge bolt to get the boolits out, I just push the sprue plate open with the same hammer-handle I use to tap the hinge. Pure lead of course different because it has no mush phase, but it's soft enough to cut by hand

Overall, I'd say you need to speed up the pace about 10% while doing everything else the same to get the mould hotter. Pour a slightly bigger sprue puddle to get the sprue plate hotter and make your boolit bases sharper. Also, you might loosen your sprue plate pivot screw a few degerees (a FEW, like loosen the set screw and turn the slot one hour on a clock face, then gently re-snug the set screw), that will help the bases vent some.

When you shave the time, since you can't really shorten the sprue cooling without a wet-towel quench and you can't do much to speed your pour rate without creating voids, try to hasten your open, dump, refill pace to get about four pours a minute. After you get the mould a bit hotter and the fillout on the bands improves (and the frost gets a bit more "satin" looking), you might have to slow down to three pours a minute to keep the mould from overheating, it all depends on how the particular mould you're using transfers heat, and each type and boolit style is different.

I would also recommend shooting some of your "culls", particularly the ones that have sharp bases but fill defects on the bands. You'll learn a lot about what matters and what doesn't as far as defects go, and with typical revolver shooting you can get by with a lot and never know the difference.

Gear

[geargnasher]

BigRix, here's an Ideal 429421HP with about the same alloy you're using, the focus in the pic is on the mould so the boolits ar a bit blurry, but you get the idea. This is what they will look like if you get the mould a bit hotter. BTW, note the bases, I had to pour a really small sprue puddle that barely filled the well to keep the sprue plate from overheating, hence the non-puckered bases. Maximum casting speed was required to keep the HP pin hot enough for perfect HP cavity fillout.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15701&d=1252306757

Gear

[BigRix]

I didn't mention the alloy is straight clip on wheel weights. Air cooled.

[Bass Ackward]

The main problem I had was filling out the front of the first driving band.

Thanks


The most common problem with sharp edge molds, particularly DEEP designs like Keith's are getting the blocks to open properly. That's because you are faced with a catch 22 of sorts that you have to keep the blocks hot but have to have the bullet completely solidified to have the strength to handle separation.

Most of the time people have trouble with Keith's, they have trouble molding them. And they still weight and size, so it is difficult to tell.

This really is a problem of getting the block pins "properly" adjusted. Here a .... precision set of handles really helps.

Check and see if they have play in the hinge or too much in the blocks. You may need to use some shims on the handle at the blocks if you can't get it right.

[BigRix]

I'm using a new set of RCBS handles. They seemed to fit well without modifications. They were expensive but I'm glad I bought them. They seem a little overkill for the 358416 but they work fine for both that mold and the 429421.

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss208/BigRix/Casting/2436c567.jpg

[MBTcustom]

Heck I'm with geargnasher on this one. I go for consistency. I prefer the plucked base because it leaves a square surface for the sizing ram so that you get the boolit started square, and its easier on your mold not having to whoop the tar out of it every time you need to get it open. Every alloy that I have ever tried will do this once the mold heats up. What I look for is to have a frosty dot more than a divot but If I start getting a shiny streak I speed up the process to get the mold hotter. I keep a whet rag on the bench next to me, when I get my rhythm going, and the mold is hot I pour the lead and set the mold on the rag for a count of one-one thousand and hit the sprue. If I start getting pitting I leave it on the rag for another second. If I get the shiny streak, I leave it alone for one or two fills until I get the frosted dot again. This allows me to keep moving and run the mold hard and fast while getting consistent results.

[1Shirt]

Yep, agree with gear and good steel. Somebody discribed the little divit as looking like a goats hoo-hoo. Never had a goat of desire to check out a goats hoo-hoo, but to each his own. If other than the little divit, they are well filled out, I would shoot them. Then again I am not much of a hand gunner anyhow.
1Shirt!

[GaryN]

I use the count method also to determine when to cut the sprues. I have one mold that I have to count before opening that is not a hollowpoint. If I don't count it will start to tear off the front band from opening it too early. I also count when using a hollowpoint mold to keep the hollowpoint from distorting. It is a cramer style mold. A good thermometer (I got mine from SwedeNelson) will help also. When you find the right temperature it is easier to repeat it.

[Doc Highwall]

I would check to make sure the hole in the sprue plate is sharp as this helps.
I hand cut mine to and with a good sharp sprue plate hole along with timing makes a difference.

[captaint]

I've never counted for cutting sprues. I just wait till the sprue sucks down and changes color. Then they get cut with the gloved hand. If I have to wait too long, I just slow down the pace. Consistency, dontcha know.. Mike

[Crash_Corrigan]

I agree with the above post. I just wait until I see the alloy sucked down into the cavity and the color/condition of the sprue change so I know it is solid and it will not smear my mold top or sprue cutter and I open the mold and shake out the boolits.

Using Bullshops Sprue Plate Lube I have during a few casting sessions got going so fast that I was dumping soft boolits into the water. Some of them had some really interesting shapes and cracks and such upon inspection later on.

I just needed to wait another two seconds or so or I could have used Bruce B's speedcasting plate/sponge/turkish towel/water method to cool down the sprue plate faster and get a perfect casting.

I am going to go now as the brown truck just brought me a new RCBS Pro=Melt casting furnace and I need to fire it up to see what it can do.

I have been using Lee's 4-20's forever and I am tired of fiddling with the operating rod and having useless but pretty volcanoes of solidified alloy all over the bench and floor.

[Cadillo]

All those bullets you are showing are not Lyman 429421. I have that mould and it is one of my best and easiest casting moulds, but like my other Lymans, required a break-in that consisted of between 200 and 300 bullets cast before it settled down. Now it casts good bullets from the first or second fill. I store it oiled with Rem Oil; and flush it clean with 91% alcohol followed by lubing of the pins and sprue plate prior to casting. I used to use brake part cleaner for degreasing, but have learned that stuff makes some bad fumes when heated. Alcohol(91%) gets it done.

Check your melt temp. While my .45 caliber moulds (452460 & 452630) want the melt at 650 degrees, the 429421 won't fill properly unless the melt is up to 700 degrees using the same alloy. Each mould is different. Experiment with your melt temperature to see what the mould wants with your alloy.

[BigRix]

The first couple of pics are the 429421's but I also cast up some 358416's and had much better luck with those.

I've got a couple things I want to try to improve my luck with the 429421 like a hot plate and playing with the alloy temp but to be honest, it's too damn hot in my garage. It is about 102+ in there when I get home from work. I was hoping to get out there early this weekend but if it's anything like this morning I'm screwed. It was 92 at 6am! I moved my reloading stuff into my spare room so at least I have something to do in the evenings.

[BigRix]

After a summer rain storm last night I was able to get a little casting time in my relatively cool shop. Fired up my pot and new el cheepo hot plate with a circular saw blade on top. I didn't have a whole lot of time so I tried my best to just do a cursory inspection as they left the mold. Even with the hot plate I needed quite a few casts to get fill out of the front band on the 429421.

Once things were working well it kinda went like so.

Puddle was jiggling with my pulse and I hand cut the sprue as soon as it stopped moving.

Bullets dropped cleanly from the mold upon opening, prior to this it took a few taps on the hinge to dislodge them.

Bullets dropped shiny, they were slightly frosted up till this point.

That's the good news.

The not so good news.

Those shiny bullets got a "Heavy" frost on them by the time I was dropping the next bullets.

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss208/BigRix/Casting/d1024442.jpg

The frost was what I considered "Heavy" but did wipe of with a rag.

The bullets were getting all dented up when dropped on the pile.

I'm going to shoot them anyways but I had a question.

Would these bullets still frost if I water dropped them?

I plan to get the mold up to this temp next time and then slow my casting pace and see how that works. I shot the mold temp with my infrared thermometer when it was dropping well and it was about 475-500 degrees. It's obvious to me at this point that this mold likes to run hot to get proper fill out of the front driving band with my WW alloy. I may have to live with the frost or add tin and run at a cooler temp.

As always I welcome your thoughts and suggestions.

P.S. These bullets weigh the same and are the same size as my previous castings.

[gray wolf]

6Are you using a thermometer for your melt ?

[BigRix]

No, I don't have a thermometer. I'm trying to cast and learn as I slowly acquire all the tools. I'm thinking that my alloy temp is pretty good as the same setting on my Saeco pot was working well with the 358416 mold. I'm setting the pot about 625. I have no way of knowing if that temp is accurate.

[geargnasher]

Big Rix, you just discovered some of the things that we all forgot to mention. For one thing, frosting takes a few minutes to appear, so you have to get in the habit of driving with your rearview mirror, meaning don't pile your casts, but drop them in rows on a towel, not letting them hit each other (this will help with the dents, too, BTW!), and look back a dozen or so pours to get an idea of what's going on.

Another thing to remember, frosting is NOT a product of alloy temperature, it's a direct result of MOULD temperature. If you're getting super-frosty boolits, your mould is a bit hot. As long as the edges are sharp and the frost will wipe off with a rag, you're good to go.

As your mould comes up to temp, you will go through several phases: First, shiny and wrinkled, with rounded bases and edges, the sprue freezes almost immediately. Then as you continue to cast and the mould gets a bit hotter the wrinkles start to disappear and fillout is better, then you get to the narrow window of shiny and perfect fillout, then once you pass that, the edges of the bands will start to frost and not fill out well, then the whole mould gets to the just-barely-satin temperature and the fillout starts to get sharp again (this is my ideal mould temperature, opinions vary), then if you let the mould get a bit hotter, the edges start to round again, and if you get any hotter than that the boolit will be pitted, looking like sand-cast aluminum when they cool. They will also be way undersized.

Don't be skeered of a little frost, as long as it's an even, satiny coating and the bands and bases are sharp, don't worry about it. The boolit in your last pic shows a sprue cut like most of mine, and if you're going to water-quench, that's the IDEAL temperature to quench them, get them out of the blocks as soon as you can after you cut the sprue, seconds count. If you let them cool much more to have a clean sprue cut, they won't harden nearly as much when quenched. If you'll notice the slight, very slight rounding of the base and edges of the bands in the frosty boolit in the last pic, you can see that if you let the mould lose maybe only 20 degrees (pause 30 seconds) it would be in the sharp edge/satin finish area. Remember it will take the frost a few minutes to mature.

Water-quenched boolits will frost also if the mould temp is high enough.

Keep playing with it, I think you have a good idea now of what to adjust to get the results you want, now that you've gone from a mould that was too cold (your first post) to a mould that was too hot and SEEN the difference it makes on the boolits. Most people seem to never get to the "too hot" point, so don't have a good idea where the middle is. I think all three points are good to know, and I try to find them with each mould and alloy.

Gear

[MtGun44]

Shoot some. Probably be fine.

Next time you are up for the IHMSA nationaly championships, maybe you'll want a bit
better. Until then, have a good time and you'll probably never be able to tell.

If you are really worried. Sort out 10 of the worst and 10 of the "best" - using whatever
criteria strikes your fancy. Load, shoot and compare.

Bill