Advice for Cowboy Action on the cheap.

[Simonpie]

I drug my girlfriend to the range to watch me shoot black powder cartridge. She starts talking with the locals and discovers Cowboy Action. Who knew hoop skirts held so much power? Anyway, now I need to buy a bunch of guns. Poor me.
I don't want to spend a ton of money until I'm sure the itch isn't just a fad. I can buy her the best when she's really into it.

Here's the question. My dad has an "old" lever action in 30/30 Winchester. I haven't seen it in a while, but I believe it is actually a Winchester, not just the name of the cartridge. It has lived a hard life, including a damaged and chopped muzzle. Cowboy action requires pistol calibers. I can get a chamber adapter to 32 H&R Magnum here: http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm. So, do you think the action can be reworked to cycle this round? They look dramatically different. I'm capable of a little machining and whatnot, but I see no need to make a major project when I can just go buy a gun that fits my needs. On the other hand, some of these folk look like thay spend $1000 per long gun, and that seems out of whack for what we're trying to do. I'll consider a rebarrel or rechamber, but only if it solves the action cycling problem.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

[Muddy Creek Sam]

You need a pistol caliber lever gun for SASS. The 92 is the cheapest of the SASS legal levers if you buy new. Check at http://www.stevesguns.com for a ready to rock 92.

Best,

Sam :D

[Phillip]

Here is a link to the SASS group that usually run the matches. I would also read up on the rules.

Link: http://www.sassnet.com/index.php

I would post a want add here in buy sell forums. There are allot of guys here that shoot in the sass.

I also have some shoot magazine PDF's that were written for beginners like your self. I can email them too you if you want. PM me your email addy if you want them.

[cajun shooter]

You don't display any info on where you are located and that makes a big difference on the advise that a person may give you. Some area's have plenty of places for viewing SASS matches and others don't. Your first thing to do is go to the SASS forum and download the shooters handbook. This will give you the rules you need to know. Most clubs will give new shooters plenty of time to gather all the needed clothing and guns before making you follow the rules. You will need safety glasses and some type of hearing protectors. The easy way to start is to use the throw away foam plugs as they are cheap and work well. You can wear regular jeans and Henley type shirts to start. You and your wife may use the same set of guns on the same posse. It is a very fun sport to be a part of. It may or may not fill your needs. In my area you may shoot up to three matches a month.

[Jeff H]

Your money won't be wasted on a pistol cartridge lever action regardless.

If either or both lose interest in Cowboy Action Shooting, you'll have something both of you will very likely enjoy shooting at your leisure.

If you like to shoot, I can't imagine you wouldn't enjoy one outside of competition.

[Simonpie]

I finally spent a little time with parts diagrams and realized it was a no go. I could probably make the carrier/ramp system work, but I'd need a completely new extractor. Oh well.

The local club has pistol caliber lever silhouette matches, so if I find something to fit both I'll be golden.


Thanks,

Simon

[August]

As often happens, the way a person asks a question predisposes others to respond in certain ways.

In other words, the question is really telling us what you want us to tell you.

But, what you want us to tell you is not the "least expensive" way to get into cowboy action shooting IN THE LONG RUN.

Buying twice is NEVER cheap. Buying low quality is NEVER cheap. These two approaches will cost you much, much more in the long run than doing it right.

First, you must buy the guns in a DESIRABLE caliber. Most guys who start SASS get .45 Colt's pistols and rifle. After a couple of years, they realize they have the least flexible cartridge for the game and that it has serious shortcomings in terms of function, versatility, and performance for the game of CAS. So.... lots of guys end up selling their .45 gunz. Consequently, there is a glut of them on the used market. They are heavily discounted. (i.e. guys lose money).

.38 specials, on the other hand, are very desirable and hard to come by. In resale, the cowboy rarely loses much, if any, money.

.32s are really a niche market and tend to lose value as do the .45s.

So, you see where this is going, get your gunz in .38 special. Any load intensity can be accomplished with the .38. Your wife will be happy. Also, .38s run great with black powder, should you REALLY get involved in CAS.

Buy a good rifle to start. Either a Marlin or Uberti. You will not lose money on a Marlin and will take only a slight hit with an Uberti if you decide CAS isn't for you. (all this, assuming you buy in .38 special caliber).

For pistols, Just buy a pair of Rugers and be done with it. You will never lose on Rugers in caliber .38.

For shotgun, you can get reasonable quality for cheap. Get a Stoger for 350 bucks, use it for five years and sell it for 350 bucks.

If you follow this advice, the most you'll loose is 300 bucks if you don't like CAS. If you go cheap, or in a silly caliber, you could loose several hundred to a thousand more.

If, however, you stay in CAS, you have the best rifle and pistols for the game and are already used to them in competition. Sell your Stoeger for what you paid for it and get a good shotgun.

Ditch that Winchester. '94 were not designed for pistol calibers. You'll say Winchester made one in .45. But, you don't see guys bringing them to matches more than a few times. They don't run and don't work for the game.

Nothing is more frustrating to new women who join our game than having guns that don't work. Most women don't understand how guns work, don't want to understand, and get very intimidated when things don't go well with their guns. A very strong reason to look at long term value and frugality rather than putting together some cheap gunz at LONG TERM great expense.

I can tell from your question that you didn't want to hear that, but there it is.

Two more points, if you're still reading:

One: No matter how much money you have, you have more money than you do time on this planet.

Two: The only people who think cowboy guns are expensive are people who've never owned a sail boat.

Hope you listened because we'd love to have you and your wife join our game.

[Simonpie]

Wow August! What a logical, helpful, common sense guide that any reasonable person could adopt! You don't know me very well!

I'll take your advice for Janice. For me I'll probably end up with .45LCs with 12 inch barrels because they look cool and load them like a 45-70 because that's what real men shoot. After suffering along for a while I'll just start borrowing Janice's guns.

Thanks again.

Simon

[NickSS]

The only thing I can add is that personally I like a 92 winchester clone over a Marlin and use one in 357 mag to good advantage. The other thing is that no one who shoots SASS uses hot loads in any gun they bring to the game. Lots of loads probably do not go faster than 5 or 6 hundred fps that is except for people shooting black powder. By the way a 45 colt loaded with a 250 gr slug and 35 gr of FFFG powder with be clocking near 900 fps which will let you know that you are not shooting a weak cartridge. As for hand guns personally I like Uberti Colt clones better than Rugers. The balance better for me and point shoot more accurately. But then thats my preferences.

[August]

Wow August! What a logical, helpful, common sense guide that any reasonable person could adopt! You don't know me very well!

I'll take your advice for Janice. For me I'll probably end up with .45LCs with 12 inch barrels because they look cool and load them like a 45-70 because that's what real men shoot. After suffering along for a while I'll just start borrowing Janice's guns.

Thanks again.

Simon

English Luke crosses the pond every Fall to shoot cowboy in the land of the free. He shoots a pair of .45 Buntline, 12" colts. When he walks, the barrels knock into his knees.

When he brings the guns to battery, they practically touch the targets. As you might expect, he rarely misses pistol targets.

They look very cool and tame full house loads down because of their length and accompanying weight.

We all get a huge kick out of watching him shoot. Watching him walk with those Buntlines is almost as entertaining.

[cajun shooter]

We have a SASS member who on different matches breaks out his 12inch barrel 45 Colt Bunt lines and shoots Duelist. They are fun to watch but I don't think that would last long for me. August told you about the 38 special guns and he is correct in the information given. I do how ever not agree with the use of 38 spl. for main match guns. The Marlin is a fine rifle but the 92 would be a better choice if you shoot one of the more historical cartridges. The Marlin is designed to throw it's empties forward and right of the shooter. This is a area that you can't cross to retrieve brass because of SASS safety rules. I had a 357 Marlin that I used as a back up. Out of 10 rounds fired, I was lucky to have 5 back. I would at times only receive 2 out of the 10. I shoot 44-40 caliber and at .27 each that gets costly fast. The 1873 or 1892 are better choices. I consider myself more of a historian than a poof-ting win at all cost shooter. I shoot full loads of BP in the 44-40 cases for my rifles and revolvers. Some shooters are out to win and you can see the bullet going down range. Not my style, this is the reason that I posted this information. I don't know how many matches you have attended but that is the best way to enter the sport. Go to the matches and some pards will allow you to try out the different guns after the match. You can't shoot in a match until you have your range orientation by the club officer. I am not saying that my way is the only correct way. It does however take some time to decide how and in what classes you want to shoot in. Some classes have gun rules that you must have follow to shoot that class. I went to eight matches before signing up so you may take your time to feel things out.

[para45lda]

Well I guess I've been saving my first post for something so here goes.

Stick with the Rugers in 38/357 - seen too many Colt clones (of all makes and models) quit at the most inopportune times.

Marlin in 38/357 - had a 92 and sold it.

For shotgun I bit the boolit and bought a 97 Winchester. Although I will admit a few people were able to keep up with their double barrel. ;-) Heard good and bad about the Norinco 97 copies.

Of course all of this is IMHO and YMMV and I've only been around the block twice but I'll let my badge number speak for itself. :bigsmyl2:

[Safeshot]

Pair of Ruger V. (stainless) in .44 Mag - load your own as light as you want. Marlin .44 mag carbine lever - shoot same load as revolvers. Stevens Mod 311 Double, in 12 Ga. Have great fun trying to wear them out. Just my opinion, Safeshot

[cajun shooter]

I have been with SASS since 2008 and average three matches a month until my recent lower back problems. I am a former armorer for a large Sheriffs Office and City Police Range combined. We taught over 1500 students a year and repaired the guns they carried. I have been to many schools including Ruger. They are with out a doubt one of the strongest guns built but also have problems like all other guns. They have both over and undersized barrels and cylinders. Some are so bad that the guns are only good as wall hangers. I can't tell you how many shooters buy the Rugers and then pay hundreds of dollars to make them like Colts. I shoot with three clubs and every member who has the Rugers has had them worked on to improve the hammers, triggers, springs and even complete grip frames. If you have shot in a lot of matches then you know I speak the truth. The guns of my choice are the USFA's which are built in the old Colt factory. They are also like the Rugers and to be a real fast gun they require some work but not as much as the Rugers. I choose to shoot a gun that is historically correct and the Ruger does not meet that criteria. I shoot nothing but black powder and use a double trigger SXS with exposed hammers. It is a copy of the 1878 Colt shotgun. The Winchester 92 copy that was made by Rossi is a very good rifle to shoot until you decide to become a "gamer" That is a person who uses all the fastest guns to win by shooting very light loads that are in the 500 FPS range. The rifle of choice is the Uberti 1873 which has what is called a toggle bolt design and is the fastest rifle made. They have some very good shooters who will come close with a 92 but not beat the 73. The 92 is by far the stronger of the two and may be used as a hunting rifle in the correct caliber. If you take your time before your purchase you may do better than a damn the torpedo's full steam ahead approach!

[smkummer]

I shot one match last year and the 38 caliber must have been used by 3/4 of the shooters for cost and "gaming" reasons. I loaded for both the 45 Colt and 44 special. I selected cowboy loads in the 700 FPS range with 200 grain bullets but one would have thought I was shooting magnums compaired to the trail boss loads I observed fired. One shooter was shooting a 73 Clone in 38 that I swore sound like a 22. I see no reason for the harder to find brass in 32 caliber as some guys are loading 95 grain 380 bullets in 38 special. It appears that 125 grain 38 bullets are very common.

[Irascible]

NEWS FLASH : All competitive cowboy guns have been worked on - A LOT.
Because of the coil springs Rugers have less breakage than the Colt clones. I, myself replaced the springs in my Ruger Bisleys with lighter springs and opened up the rear sight notch. 10 seasons later and THOUSANDS and THOSANDS of rounds, nothing has broken or failed.
The 38spcl is the gamers choice, but if you like the 45 Colt than buy it and have fun. A later need for speed, shoot 45 Cowboy specials. These are 45acp length and chamber in the 45 Colt pistols. The company even sells a light weight bullet mould for them and can sell you a conversion kit to shoot them in a model 1866 or 1873 rifle chambered for the 45 Colt. ALL the fast shooters use these rifles because they work. 1892s, 1894s and Marlins ara slow and will have problems sooner or later. I gave up on a very nice working Marlin for a Uberti 1873 clone because it was faster.
Google Cowboy 45 or Adirondack Jack for the websight.