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white eagle
06-17-2011, 11:03 PM
cast up some soft points tonight
I used muzzleloader r/b and conicals for the front
and hardball for the rear portion
out of 72 I got 50 that I will load and 22 for practice
I used a hot plate to set the mold on while I dumped the soft in
then transferred over to the harder alloy to finish
I have some parting lines but not as many as without using the hot plate
may have been lucky may not
these are in 45 cal and weigh 340 gr

geargnasher
06-17-2011, 11:47 PM
I'm assuming the Lee mould. I was pondering doing the same thing with my NEF .45 Colt Bambi-Hammer project, I'm not getting satisfactory expansion with anything harder than straight wheel weights, even with a case nearly full of Reloader 7. I'd be very interested in a range report with ballistics, targets, and recovered specimens if you get a chance to try them out, keep us posted.

Gear

white eagle
06-18-2011, 12:53 AM
Accurate Molds 340F
I will as soon as I get a camera I will post pics
when I can

44man
06-18-2011, 07:51 AM
I don't like the line and have tried the over heated mold thing. I did not like that either, way too slow.
Been thinking of making a mold holder to hold it perfectly level then pour soft lead with a little scoop and have the ladle in my other hand to pour the hard lead as fast as I can and try to beat the soft setup.
I have to try before next deer season.

white eagle
06-18-2011, 09:46 AM
they don't need to be pretty to be effective

gray wolf
06-18-2011, 10:23 AM
No mechanical retention, no metallurgical retention, = bullet separation at the demarcation line.
Your bullets may come apart, but give it a try. We are all interested.

white eagle
06-18-2011, 10:47 AM
The parting lines are pretty well blended together
that is what the hot plate was for
I also kept the mold HOT as well
that seemed to help
but yes I have had noses come off prior to this

44man
06-18-2011, 11:02 AM
The parting lines are pretty well blended together
that is what the hot plate was for
I also kept the mold HOT as well
that seemed to help
but yes I have had noses come off prior to this
We need to work on this and see if it can be done without an over heated mold. Can speed between the nose pour and base work? Darn, I don't know yet.
Does the hot plate keep the nose molten? You might have something there but there are questions. How long must the mold sit on the plate between pours? How hot does it need to be? Is the nose molten so the hard lead just mixes with it? How do you determine the nose mix so a blending gives the right expansion? How would you work that out for different animal sizes?

white eagle
06-18-2011, 01:40 PM
I use the hot plate to keep the mold from cooling
Brass molds do hold the heat better
noses with huge parting lines should be discarded
I had one come apart while crimping,got stuck in the Lee crimp die
the best come from a mold that keeps the sprue more liquid than setting up rite away HOT
use a 45 acp case trimmed for a dipper
going to shoot the ugly ones tomorrow
figure if they work well the pretty ones will work and be saved for hunting
don't need a bunch of expansion 45 cal is pretty big
maybe 1/3 of the nose

white eagle
06-18-2011, 04:50 PM
these are what I am getting
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v730/kempobb/boolits1.jpg,
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v730/kempobb/boolits.jpg

geargnasher
06-18-2011, 06:28 PM
Yep, that mould was pretty hot! I know it has to be. I've read BruceB's thread on casting softpoints in this manner, seems pretty straightforward but very time consuming the way he does it. I like the idea of running two pots, one with pure and one with WW metal or similar. Keep the mould in an "oven" (steel elecrical box) on top of the hot plate so it's at the temp that makes the WW sprue take about six seconds to get just firm enough to cut by hand, use a measured dipper for the soft lead, then bottom-pour on top of it. The pure lead could be kept at a very high temperature, say about 900 degrees or more, and it might stay molten long enough for the WW metal to be poured on top and get a good bond.

Some thoughts I have, but I've never tried it so I don't know for sure: Instead of pure lead, use a lead/tin alloy with as long a "mush" stage as possible, and try to time it and get the temp right so that the softnose is in the middle of it's mush phase when the WW alloy hits it, that way the SP metal will bond well with the WW metal without splashing the SP metal all over the inside of the mould and mixing the two too much. One would have to experiement quite a bit to get the procedure down.

The member who made the cool little handheld dispenser for making these did pretty well with it, but I did notice some splash of the SP metal up into the bands on some of the pics he posted, plus the tool is well beyond the capabilities of most of us to make. A dipper made out of a brass case with some solid copper wire wrapped around it and tailed-off into a handle seems much more in-line with the average means.

Gear

jhalcott
06-18-2011, 06:50 PM
I've tried these soft points in several calibers. They do NOT need to be pretty to work! I use a heavy (long) bullet mold. Make a mini dipper from an empty case ground to give me about 1/3 the nose in soft alloy. I have had limited success making a bunch of noses, then going back and filing the rear of the mold with the nose in there. There is NO WAY to get the alloys to mix with this method. BUT they aren't pretty at all, and once in a great while , they will come apart.! BruceB's method will give you some beautiful Soft nose bullets. Plan on spending a day making a couple dozen. That will last many seasons if you are a decent shot! The "parting line" Could be a problem if shooting longer distances. There COULD be a slight imbalance in the bullet, throwing it off the target. Which is why I always shoot a few in practice. Happy fathers day!!

white eagle
06-19-2011, 09:36 PM
update
if you all make these to make sure if you have a prominent
parting line between the two metals to discard them or watch very closely
I had some like that,that the tips came off during recoil of the previous shot
the ones I have pictured have blended better and do not have the obvious parting line
other than the no tipped ones.... they did shoot to the same p.o.a.as non soft tipped versions

1Shirt
06-19-2011, 11:32 PM
Keep us posted as you progress please!
1Shirt!:coffee:

44man
06-20-2011, 07:13 AM
update
if you all make these to make sure if you have a prominent
parting line between the two metals to discard them or watch very closely
I had some like that,that the tips came off during recoil of the previous shot
the ones I have pictured have blended better and do not have the obvious parting line
other than the no tipped ones they did shoot to the same p.o.a.as non soft tipped versions
Those are some FIIIINE looking boolits! :drinks:
I have played with it many years but have yet to shoot a deer with them. Now I need them in the 45-70.
I missed a buck one morning with one from my .44. It was dim and I could not see the sights. He was so close I tried it anyway. You will not believe the hole I blew in the ground. :lol:
I have the soft nose casting pot from LBT but it is too slow between pours. I switched to a dipper but need to speed the pours or heat the mold like you do.

white eagle
06-20-2011, 09:58 AM
I am thinking out loud here
is it possible to have the soft alloy to soft ?
On the boolits that are in the pic they are made with m/l ,r/b and conicals
they are dead soft
would I be better off using like an alloy of 16/1 or something similar ??

Rangefinder
06-20-2011, 10:31 AM
I am thinking out loud here
is it possible to have the soft alloy to soft ?
On the boolits that are in the pic they are made with m/l ,r/b and conicals
they are dead soft
would I be better off using like an alloy of 16/1 or something similar ??

I have done some limited experimenting on this end. I've found at higher velocities, dead-soft is in fact too soft and will tend to peel off. A minor amount of tin added (with no antimony) allows good expansion while holding things together better. However, you should see what you're getting first, and then tinker as needed.

These are RB's from my 1851 Navy. Left is dead-soft, middle is about 15-1 (tin only), right is straight WW. This is fired into a catalog stack at BP velocities. Obviously tissue would react differently than a stack of paper--this is meant only to show the deformation differences according to alloy at the same velocity.
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l259/hillsjim/DSCF4494-1.jpg

44man
06-20-2011, 12:33 PM
Some tin will help and even a tad harder like 50-50 with high velocities but I have no experience yet.
However with BP, pure is just fine. I have killed quite a few deer with my Ruger Old Army and pure balls. All the way through and real fast kills, one went straight up and dropped dead.

Von Gruff
06-20-2011, 05:28 PM
I run my softnoses in 50/50 ww/Pb and have yet to have a break apart or a failure at 2415fps from my 7x57on an animal out to 185 yds.

Von Gruff.

MBTcustom
06-20-2011, 05:45 PM
Hey VonGruff, you should tell em about your method of getting perfectly consistent:drinks: soft points. The more I think about it, the more I want to give 'er a try.

richhodg66
06-20-2011, 05:55 PM
Hey VonGruff, you should tell em about your method of getting perfectly consistent:drinks: soft points. The more I think about it, the more I want to give 'er a try.

I'd be interested in hearing your method as well.

When I did this many years ago, I cast several .31 caliber round balls in pure lead, then cast normally with the mold to keep it hot while I set a Lee ladle with one of the round balls in it over a propane torch. When the ball melted, I poured it in, followed by fuilling the rest with standard alloy. I didn't do a whole lot with it and never tried them on game, but may do it again in the next year or two.

Von Gruff
06-20-2011, 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodsteel
Hey VonGruff, you should tell em about your method of getting perfectly consistent soft points. The more I think about it, the more I want to give 'er a try.

I'd be interested in hearing your method as well.

When I did this many years ago, I cast several .31 caliber round balls in pure lead, then cast normally with the mold to keep it hot while I set a Lee ladle with one of the round balls in it over a propane torch. When the ball melted, I poured it in, followed by fuilling the rest with standard alloy. I didn't do a whole lot with it and never tried them on game, but may do it again in the next year or two.

Have posted it a couple of times and it is just a variation of BruceB's post in the stickies but with a cew refinements that seem to give me repeatable results on paper and meat.

See if this link will work. It is PM to Goodsteel with the information so don't have to print it out again.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/private.php?do=showpm&pmid=1065881

Von Gruff.

XWrench3
06-20-2011, 09:10 PM
seems like in this day and age of all sorts of modern hi tech wizardry, someone should be able to come up with a good way to do this by now. either a two peice mold, with some sort of low temp solder, or mechanical way of fastening the two together (like maybe threads and jb weld). or some sort of leaching process with chemicals. i have thought about the two part die with threads
(or even a simple taper glued together) several times, but i lack the funding to try it.

Von Gruff
06-20-2011, 09:15 PM
seems like in this day and age of all sorts of modern hi tech wizardry, someone should be able to come up with a good way to do this by now. either a two peice mold, with some sort of low temp solder, or mechanical way of fastening the two together (like maybe threads and jb weld). or some sort of leaching process with chemicals. i have thought about the two part die with threads
(or even a simple taper glued together) several times, but i lack the funding to try it.

That would be complicating something that is a simple end effective process even if it is not as fast as straight casting.

Von Gruff.

btroj
06-20-2011, 09:20 PM
I have had no problem using 2 pots and a mould. A dipper of soft quickly into the mould with sprue plate open. Close plate, pour base. Done.
I did 45-70 bullets with a 9mm case as a dipper. Once melt is really hot and the mould is too the seam is not very noticeable. I don't care is a slight amount of mixing happens at the seam, the nose is still soft enough to give the desired effect.
My take on the whole thing-don't over think it. Don't make things into a problem if they aren't. My bullets stayed together totally thru the casting, lubing, loading, and shooting. Pulled from berm they are still in one piece. My opinion, they worked.

white eagle
06-20-2011, 11:38 PM
that is why I use the hot plate
keep the mold hot
the soft .,pliable and let the sprue harden while the mold is on the hot plate
basic ....the way I like it :cbpour:

Rangefinder
06-21-2011, 02:39 PM
I'm experimenting with a soft-nose for my .40 right now that is showing promise. I'm casting .360 RB in dead-soft, then putting those in the nose of a 175 SWC. Bonding is excellent, the trick is keeping the mold warm enough on my 6-cav and the alloy for the base hot enough to fill the front driving band around the base of the RB for a clean seam line. so-far so-good. I'll post pics once I have it all dialed in and consistent. The results at this point are a 160gr. RN in .40 with a dead-soft nose. We'll see how it holds up and expands in a wet-pack soon.